e-Bike Hate Picking Up, You Can Help

[Uncle Paul]

Hikers do not want to share with bikers.
Bikers do not want to share with eMotor bikers.
Horse people do not want to share with bikers.
Nobody wants to share with gasser Motorcyclists.
Single trackers do not want to share with ATVs.
Side by Sides need to take up the whole trail themselves.

This is just normal. Everybody wants the trails to themselves.

Gonna be hard to ban the low powered eBikes as they allow handicapped access to the trails.

 

[ULEWZ]

My wife and I will be riding our Giant E-bikes (mountain bikes) in a few hours. Love those things. After the lockdown, our legs are not what they use to be, so we will increase the boost from 1 to a 2 (5 available). We get a great workout (need to pedal to go, no throttle as some suggest), and have a great time. Most Analog riders pay us no never mind and actually say hi more often than not.

 

[Runt8]

...
Most Analog riders pay us no never mind and actually say hi more often than not.

Or more likely have no idea that you are even on an e-bike. Which is why I don’t get all the hate in this thread - these bikes are quiet and can’t go any faster than a decent rider can go on a normal bike.

 

[lotusland]

I'm actually pretty familiar with eBikes. I see them on the trails here in San Diego -- sometimes where they are legal, sometimes when they are not. Here is the basic thing that ebike supporters have somehow managed to "de-truth". Anything with a motor is a "MOTORCYCLE". That is not a debatable fact, if it has a motor, it is a motorcycle and does not belong on pedstrian or bicycle paths. It's not complicated until you start bending the facts. Want to go on a remote trail? Walk or ride a bike. Or if horses are allowed, ride a horse.

Re the fitness issue, I'm 57 so I'm far from prime age. I do agree that most that I see on ebikes on trails would not be there otherwise -- usually they are carrying a lot of extra weight. Body weight.

Here in SD I expect this issue to be settled legally at some point. Someone riding a 40lb ebike will injure someone on a bicycle and the lawsuit will name the city.

 

[MXLRplus]

I'm actually pretty familiar with eBikes. I see them on the trails here in San Diego -- sometimes where they are legal, sometimes when they are not. Here is the basic thing that ebike supporters have somehow managed to "de-truth". Anything with a motor is a "MOTORCYCLE". That is not a debatable fact, if it has a motor, it is a motorcycle and does not belong on pedstrian or bicycle paths. It's not complicated until you start bending the facts. Want to go on a remote trail? Walk or ride a bike. Or if horses are allowed, ride a horse.

Re the fitness issue, I'm 57 so I'm far from prime age. I do agree that most that I see on ebikes on trails would not be there otherwise -- usually they are carrying a lot of extra weight. Body weight.

Here in SD I expect this issue to be settled legally at some point. Someone riding a 40lb ebike will injure someone on a bicycle and the lawsuit will name the city.

Apparently you don't have a good understanding of a California Driver's License. Let me tell you how it goes in your state. I've been here a lot longer than you.

Anything with a motor and 2 or 3 wheels is not necessarily a motorcycle in California. This was covered in your driver's test and you should know it. You need a class M1 to ride a real two wheeled motorcycle. No ifs ands or buts. You apparently have never applied? Because you'd have failed the test without knowing the classification laws.

A California AB1096 legal eBike is not classified as any kind of motorized cycle. You do not need any CDL to operate one. But there can be helmet or age restrictions.

Study before your next test, some rules have changed concerning 2/3 wheel licensing.

California Driver Handbook - Driver License Classes

Motorcycle Licensing

EDIT - Class 1/2/3 eBikes are allowed on all paved bicycle paths unless otherwise restricted locally.

 

[lotusland]

MX, thank you for your lecture, but you more or less backed up my statement. eBikes are not considered motorcycles legally. My point is, they should be. They have no place on trails that do not already allow motorized vehicles. There is zero difference between a "motorized cycle" that uses a battery and one that uses an ICE. That is simply common sense. Mopeds have been around for about a century I believe, and they are not allowed on trails even though they can be limited to 20mph easily. There is no logical or operational difference between a moped and an ebike. It's just marketing and lobbying smoke and mirrors.

Things like whether an ebike pollutes more or less than whatever else, or whether a handicapped person needs one, or whether some overweight person will be deprived of a cheated bike ride up some hill are irrelevant, the only question is whether motorized bikes should have access to trails that are reserved for non-motorized traffic -- they should not in my opinion. I don't expect to sway you or any other ebike fan but I'm OK with that.

 

[MXLRplus]

MX, thank you for your lecture, but you more or less backed up my statement. eBikes are not considered motorcycles legally. My point is, they should be. They have no place on trails that do not already allow motorized vehicles. There is zero difference between a "motorized cycle" that uses a battery and one that uses an ICE. That is simply common sense. Mopeds have been around for about a century I believe, and they are not allowed on trails even though they can be limited to 20mph easily. There is no logical or operational difference between a moped and an ebike. It's just marketing and lobbying smoke and mirrors.

Things like whether an ebike pollutes more or less than whatever else, or whether a handicapped person needs one, or whether some overweight person will be deprived of a cheated bike ride up some hill are irrelevant, the only question is whether motorized bikes should have access to trails that are reserved for non-motorized traffic -- they should not in my opinion. I don't expect to sway you or any other ebike fan but I'm OK with that.

Ugghh. You do know that my M1 license allows me to ride EV motorcycles that would make you wet yourself, correct?

Mopeds require a CDL even for a short rental. To ride one for longer than 48 hrs requires a M1 or M2, a car license doesn't cut it. They are speed limited to 30 mph, and you don't have to pedal them. In fact, the pedals are nearly useless unless required to start the engine.

Go rent a moped with your C class CDL. Learn something new. They are nothing like bicycles.

 

[FlatSix911]

Just like Tesla hate, eMTBs are catching a lot of flak on the trails here in Colorado, and for no good reason, just ignorance. BLM is attempting to allow eBikes where acoustic bikes are free to ride. Currently the penalty for riding an eBike on a BLM trail is $5000 and/or six months in jail. They recently installed this sign despite BLMs initiative to allow Class 1 pedal assist bikes in on the fun. Please support BLMs initiative to allow e-bikes where they allow regular bikes! We have until June 9 to submit comments.
Add your comments here: Regulations.gov Beta
Submit formal comments here: Increasing Recreational Opportunities Through the Use of Electric Bikes
Also see this great video explaining the need for your comments:

View attachment 543881

Thank you for posting... I have completed the survey and promote 100% EMTB accessibility for all.
Kind of sad to see all of the EV ignorance coming from fellow Tesla owners who should promote mobility.
I wonder if they know that Class 1 EBikes do not have a throttle and require a rider to pedal in order to provide assistance?

 

[GSP]

Interesting discussion, but “acoustic bikes?” Please! There is nothing very acoustic about a bicycle, electric assist or not. Not a good term to use.

GSP

 

[CyberGus]

This thread reminded me of this clip.

 

[Mtnrunner]

Your argument worksheet equally well both ways.

If you want to ride your e-bike on a trail there's nothing stopping you from buying your own acreage and ride round on whatever you want.

The current rules mean you can't enjoy the space the way you want. You are proposed rules mean others can't enjoy the space the way they want. Why is your enjoyment more important than their enjoyment?

How does an eMTB prevent another mtnbiker from enjoying the same trails together?

Your comment indicates you have no understanding of this topic. My guess is you don’t even own a mountain bike to miss the topic point so completely. Ignorance is having an opinion on something you know nothing about

 

[Mtnrunner]

Interesting discussion, but “acoustic bikes?” Please! There is nothing very acoustic about a bicycle, electric assist or not. Not a good term to use.

GSP

Now a common term in the biking world. I originally didn’t get it and agree it’s kinda silly, acoustic vs electric guitar is presumably where it came from.

 

[Puddles]

No one's talking about motorcycles...

it has a motor, and two wheels, ergo...

There is nothing stopping you from riding your bicycle on the trail. If you don't want to be around other bicycle designs, you can always buy your own acreage and put up no trespassing signs, or 'Damn Kids Stay Off Of My Lawn' placards.

public lands are managed for a variety of users, which I believe would be the scope of this discussion. There are “feet only” trails, There are “equestrian & pedestrian “ trails, there are “human power only” trails, and there are “motor vehicle allowed” trails. I don’t understand why the e-bikers are all butt hurt About being asked to use motor vehicle trails.

 

[CyberGus]

it has a motor, and two wheels, ergo...

So you’d be ok with a rocket-propelled bike? Because it doesn’t technically have a motor, rite?

P.S.: Elon, we need a rocket-propelled bike

 

[Mtnrunner]

it has a motor, and two wheels, ergo...



public lands are managed for a variety of users, which I believe would be the scope of this discussion. There are “feet only” trails, There are “equestrian & pedestrian “ trails, there are “human power only” trails, and there are “motor vehicle allowed” trails. I don’t understand why the e-bikers are all butt hurt About being asked to use motor vehicle trails.

Puddles, have you ridden a bicycle on an off road vehicle road? Do you realize what you’re suggesting can actually result in serious injury or death to someone using a tiny electric motor for pedal assist on the uphill only, and on the same road as Jeeps and dirt bikes? And with a max uphill speed comparable to a 20 year old rider?

Again, please attempt to understand the actual facts of the discussion before chiming in with your “opinion”. There are ample links in the OP. Yes, you will need to sound out every word from the upper left to lower right to inform yourself on the main points of this discussion.

Before you reply please consider if your viewpoint will bring value to the discussion. Qualifying input can be determined by actual experience. Eg, do you ride a bike of any sort? Have you ridden a Class 1 pedal assist ebike? Have you been on a trail observing the interaction of ebikes with acoustic bikes, hikers or horse riders?

Please realize that some people like me have physical conditions such that they can’t, or can no longer, use brute force to pedal uphill. In my case it was a shattered pelvis, in others it might simply be age. But regardless; technology such as that enjoyed by Tesla owners allows us to share common use trails with zero infringement upon those already there.

Your thoughtful, researched and informed analysis of the discussion will be appreciated. Your original suggestion is comparable to suggesting hikers use the highways. Pretty shitty dude, hope you’re not butt hurt, asswipe

 

[Mtnrunner]

So you’d be ok with a rocket-propelled bike? Because it doesn’t technically have a motor, rite?

P.S.: Elon, we need a rocket-propelled bike

As long as it fits the class 1 definition of an ebike which, apparently, has completely evaded you

Colorado Parks and Wildlife

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I'm a little confused about how the BLM regulations relate to the National park one.

As I understand it e-bikes are currently allowed in National Parks, and possibly other federal land. Is this allowance temporary until they review comments? They both seem to have the same June 8th 2020 due date.
https://www.nps.gov/subjects/biking/e-bikes.htm

It seems like this is applicable to ALL federal lands, and so its something every E-Bike enthusiast should get behind. And, obviously something an E-Bike hater needs to try to defeat.

Absolutely the only logical reasons I can see for trying to ban e-bikes on Federal land is to minimize participation.

It's understandable given how crowded hiking trails would be if low cost powered exo-skeletons were a thing. So instead of being clear of people 2 miles into a hike you were suddenly surrounded by all these "powered individuals" that would either be with you till the end or would pass you.

One of the great things about being in nature is it's your body against nature. All the people who can't handle it are gone. This means all the parents, and their pesky kids (these are the majority). It also excludes all the out of shape people, and the people with physically limiting conditions.

I don't know if anyone has been paying attention, but it seems like everyone has an E-bike these days. So we're not talking about a small amount of folks with physical handicaps. We're talking all kinds of people.

Even kids around my neighborhood have E-Bikes.

The lock down has exploded E-Bike sales so there is even more of them on the roads/trails/etc today.

One of the reasons I absolutely love my E-Bike is I can do crazy things with it. I can put it into full regen mode (negative assist) going down a hill where I have to pedal hard just to get down the hill or it won't move at all. Or I can put it into full assist, and blast up the hill going 28mph which is totally bizarre to people watching. Not even my Tesla is as cool as my E-Bike. By far its best thing I own.

The bike gives me the freedom to use it how I wish. But, the thing is it gives everyone else that power too.

If I want to go fast, and I'm where I can go fast then I go fast.
If I want to get a good workout then I use it to do that.
If my knee suddenly gives way (which sometimes it does without much warning) then I can easily manage to get back to where I started.

E-Bikes are the great equalizer.

They open up biking to the masses.

 

[Puddles]

Puddles, have you ridden a bicycle on an off road vehicle road?

Yes, often. I’ve found that off roaders are amused to see us so far into the wilderness.

I offer my deepest condolences for your injury. For the purposes of our discussion about public policy, I will continue to support the existing divisions of foot, pedal, and motor power. They are not perfect, but probably serve the most people the best. I also support accommodation for those differently abled.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I also support accommodation for those differently abled.

How would this really work though?

With cars you have to have a disabled sticker for parking in a handicap spot, but this would be a bit insulting to an E-Bike owner. it would definitely dissuade me from bothering with it.

But, if I all I needed to do was to show some medical card if stopped I'd probably go through the hassle of acquiring it. Sometimes one of my knees will suddenly give, and the E-Bike makes it a LOT easier to go on long 60+ mile rides that I like doing.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

the most people the best

In a country where the vast majority of the people are unfit, and overweight?

If we want those people to get heathier we need to give them avenues to get healthier.