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e-Bike Hate Picking Up, You Can Help

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Mtnrunner, May 22, 2020 at 10:34 AM.

  1. Mtnrunner

    Mtnrunner Member

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    Just like Tesla hate, eMTBs are catching a lot of flak on the trails here in Colorado, and for no good reason, just ignorance.

    BLM is attempting to allow eBikes where acoustic bikes are free to ride. Currently the penalty for riding an eBike on a BLM trail is $5000 and/or six months in jail. They recently installed this sign despite BLMs initiative to allow Class 1 pedal assist bikes in on the fun.

    Please support BLMs initiative to allow e-bikes where they allow regular bikes! We have until June 9 to submit comments.
    Add your comments here:

    Regulations.gov Beta

    Submit formal comments here:

    Increasing Recreational Opportunities Through the Use of Electric Bikes

    Also see this great video explaining the need for your comments:




    B92DD586-A590-4488-955A-AB6F0549F4F6.jpeg
     
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  2. p-f-g

    p-f-g Member

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    I'm in Europe where the situation is different but in the US it's not really new. I used to visit mtbr or pinkbike forums but I gave up.
    - The trails are reserved for the elite who deserve it by their pain.
    - The huge power of a class 1 bike will rip apart the trails.
     
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  3. TX_M3P+

    TX_M3P+ Member

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    What's the reason(s) for banning e-bikes in the first place? Seems ridiculous on the surface, but wondering if there are deeper, sound reasons for doing so, or is this just sheer ignorance?
     
  4. Mtnrunner

    Mtnrunner Member

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    Ignorance. Class 1 ebikes have governors that prevent them doing over 20mph and the state of Colorado did a study on their effects on trails in terms of damage, annoyance to hikers or equestrians and found them to be no different than acoustic bikes hence Colorado Parks and Wildlife allows class 1 & 2 eBikes on all state park trails.

    But BLM/US Forrest service do not but are considering regulation in favor of and the reason for the comments period in OP

    like EVs, eBikes are picking up massive adoption and misinformed folks who probably never road one are objecting to them. They apparently envision a cyberbike passing them at 100mph
    Colorado Parks and Wildlife
     
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  5. lotusland

    lotusland Member

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    Hiker and mountain biker here. I don't want ebikes or any kind of motorized vehicle on trails. This is not an ICE-vs-E thing, it is a motors-vs-self powered thing. Trails are for people who provide their own power generally. There are a few trails that motors have been allowed on here in CA historically, of course those should be open to eBikes also. BTW never heard of an "acoustic bike", I don't know if you created that term or if it is in general use but it is silly. I will submit my comments -- thanks!
     
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  6. KenC

    KenC Active Member

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    Interesting. I was going to recommend to my older brother, 60yrs and out of shape, that he look into getting an eMTB, so that he could ride around Mammoth Mtn, where he has a 2nd home. I wonder what the California regs are like. I remember once hiking around the Marin Headlands with a friend, and people you met were not friendly at all.
     
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  7. MXLRplus

    MXLRplus Member

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    Let me enlighten you. Not everybody is young and in peak shape. Level 1 eBikes are only assist systems. They only operate when you are pedaling, and they cut all assist off at 20 mph. They are normally about .3 horsepower, or weaker than most amateur level cyclists.

    What they have found about eBikes, is more people will take them out more often for longer rides than conventional bikes. It's partially psychological. You know you will be able to make it all the way back even if you run out of steam. Many people ride them with no assist or low assist. My wife has put 2,200 miles on her eBike in one year. She uses the assist to climb our steep grades. In the previous 20 years, she probably rode 200 miles.

    PS - You can also trail ride on a $100 Schwinn. Why don't you see them on the trails? Because a $5000 bike is better. But so is a $1000 eBike.
     
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  8. Mtnrunner

    Mtnrunner Member

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    And ignorance speaks... Doesn’t understand the topic, didn’t look at any of the provided info yet has a strong opinion and ready and willing to voice it. All too familiar, sadly.

    RE: BLMs initiative to allow e-bikes where they allow regular bikes

    Attention: RIN 1004-AE72

    I am in favor of allowing Class 1 pedal assist e-bikes on BLM lands and trails where non-motorized bikes are allowed for the following reasons:
    1. No increased trail damage compared to non-motorized bikes
    2. No noise
    3. No pollution
    4. Forcing e-bikers to ride in OHV areas sharing the trails with ATVs and dirt bikes is dangerous and irresponsible. It’s putting eMTBers in danger
    5. Provides access to people who could not otherwise ride such as older people, people with preexisting injuries or physical conditions preventing them from enjoying biking
    6. Colorado Parks and Wildlife has already studied this and regulated in favor of e-bikes:
    7. Many studies have shown eMTBs offer nearly same workout as non-motorized MTBs:
    8. Trail etiquette is not affected by an electronic pedal assist bikes. Riders still either exercise common etiquette of others or do not regardless of the type of bike being used. Many times, I’ve been pushed off my uphill climb by non-motorized bikers bombing downhill in total disregard of others. The following is another well thought out viewpoint about eMTBs:
    9. Downhill riding is not affected by or improved upon by using an e-bike. Both eMTBs and non-motorized MTBs are on the same ground in this regard
    10. Restricting eMTBs on BLM trails is hurting a growing industry of e-biker manufactures, sellers and mechanics for no valid reason
    11. Not allowing those who have purchased e-bikes to use them in the same capacity as acoustic bikes in the same areas is discriminatory and violates the rights of those whose taxes support BLM lands
    I shattered my pelvis and pulverized my urethra in a straddle injury causing permanent scar tissue making riding a regular bike uphill on mountain single track nearly impossible. eMTBs have allowed me to return to the trails to enjoy the outdoors and get the exercise I need.

    Please remove restrictions on e-bikes and please do so quickly. They are not motorized vehicles, they are pedal assist only and a little assistance never hurt anyone.
     
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  9. outdoors

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    #9 outdoors, May 22, 2020 at 1:57 PM
    Last edited: May 22, 2020 at 2:06 PM
    While I respect your view. I think things will be changing post Covid if there is such a thing as post Covid. Lung damage has not been determined to be long term, I can't see it not being such.

    Restricting the outdoors to just those that can self power means Going to the Sun Road in Glacier will be the means of seeing the outdoors for a new class of people. People that look fine on the outside yet might have 40-50% of the lung capacity of someone of the same age. Class 1 E-bikes might be an opportunity for those folks.

    I always say. If you can't experience it. Well it might be left out of the appropriations bill. Out of sight and out of mind for too many. So will be opportunities for the outdoors. We can't afford that with our environment. So we need to educate and compromise. As the outdoors for the select few will soon become the outdoors for none:(

    Edit Add: Former NORBA circuit racer as a Junior and Cat2 road. Old days gone by. I see both sides very well. Now just a trail runner and a OneWheeler.
     
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  10. Puddles

    Puddles Member

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    I'd give you ten thumbs up if I could. I too enjoy a variety of hiking and singletrack MTB fun. I do NOT want powered vehicles on the trails. There are ample opportunities to take your electric motorcycles to all-terrain vehicle sites and tear up the place with them.
     
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  11. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    Huh, I didn’t know these existed. A electric pedal assist might actually allow my out of shape rear to bike near my home again. I got rid of my regular bikes because I live in a hilly area, so every direction is uphill. :rolleyes: Only way I could ride was to drive my bike to a flatter area, which is lame, so I didn’t do it.


    I haven’t ever seen or ridden one, but if they are truly just pedal assists, then I would have no heartburn with them on trails with regular bikes.
     
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  12. cypho

    cypho Member

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    You cite evidence that 1 e-bike does no more damage than 1 regular bike. But do you have any data about how much additional traffic allowing e-bikes would cause? And what the impact of that additional traffic would be?

    Just because 1 e-bike is no worse than 1 regular bike doesn't mean that 1 regular bike AND 10 e-bikes isn't worse than 1 regular bike.
     
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  13. Runt8

    Runt8 Active Member

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    No one's talking about motorcycles...
     
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  14. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    Amen! I've also submitted a comment strongly opposing the attempt to destroy wilderness experiences by bringing motorized vehicles into such areas.
     
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  15. derekmw

    derekmw Member

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    I'm neither for or against since I don't know enough about this topic (nor understand why it's in the model 3 section), but for those strongly opposed, what is the reasons? I assume not all of you are opposed because it 'brings more traffic'. And pedal assisted bikes are hardly the 'motorized' bikes that I assume was originally being referred to? I assume 'motorized' was talking about dirt bikes that will tear up because of spinning the wheels on top of super loud. Applying that to a pedal assisted bike seems a bit of a stretch to me....

    but like I said, I don't really have an opinion for or against, but just curious as to what the strong objection is (besides not wanting more people who couldn't normally bike that terrain unassisted showing up)
     
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  16. Mtnrunner

    Mtnrunner Member

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    Another commenter who’s probably never seen an eMTB, let alone ridden one

    FYI the decision is in to allow Class 1 ebikes on all trails, they’re really just considering Class 2 access like CPW has allowed.

    Also, since you obviously haven’t done any research and don’t understand what the discussion is about I’m sure BLM will discard your comments as ill informed. If you read the instructions, which is highly doubtful, you need to provide facts backed up with data. Nobody is interested in your ignorant opinion, thanks goodness
     
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  17. outdoors

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    The mountain bike trails near me prior to Covid were becoming more and more crowded. Runners fear certain times of day/s to run. Packs. I kid you not similar to ones in road races 5 to 6 riders literally inches off each others tires ride through singletrack at truly warp speed. These are trails that I have ridden and run for 20 years. They become both ran and road almost with eyes shut for many. Speed kills. Yet most of the E-bike riders I have met have baskets on the front of the bike and back. Not met any rippers and shredders.

    Overall I would say E-bike fear is a warranted fear amongst trail users. Yet better education like back in the hiker/horse fight vs. the MTB'er of the early 90's could help all have a better understanding.

    More of anything creates less of something for me. That is a common thought for many. Yet should be for none.
     
  18. CyberGus

    CyberGus Member

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    Yeah but what if the bike is FSD? Think of all the sudden braking
     
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  19. MXLRplus

    MXLRplus Member

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    There is nothing stopping you from riding your bicycle on the trail. If you don't want to be around other bicycle designs, you can always buy your own acreage and put up no trespassing signs, or 'Damn Kids Stay Off Of My Lawn' placards.
     
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  20. cypho

    cypho Member

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    Your argument worksheet equally well both ways.

    If you want to ride your e-bike on a trail there's nothing stopping you from buying your own acreage and ride round on whatever you want.

    The current rules mean you can't enjoy the space the way you want. You are proposed rules mean others can't enjoy the space the way they want. Why is your enjoyment more important than their enjoyment?
     
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