EAP and cars that cut in front of you

[insaneoctane]

I'll start with my positive....Telsa has done a great job improving EAP's reaction when people cut in and reduce your gap. They used to be really harsh and slam the brakes very abruptly, now they are better. But EAP is definitely NOT as good as I am in terms of smoothness and evaluating the urgency of slowing and regaining the gap. EAP seems to really want to keep ALL that gap at all times.

My question is this: Can Tesla just take the gap (as dictated by your setting of 1-7) and use some of it to "lift" the accelerator and let the gap return? So if you have the setting dialed to the largest gap of 7, EAP might give 25% of that gap to EAP to lift and avoid braking. Potentially much smoother. If you have the smallest gap of 1, EAP might only be able to give 5% of that gap to EAP to lift, more harsh. Then, once that lift-gap is exhausted (like when someone cuts in AND is going slow), then the brakes might be necessary. But, people often cut in and don't pose a risk, if you just stop accelerating for a moment. This would result in much smoother results and likely could be done without additional risk. I'd really like EAP to smooth things out and allow the gap to temporarily shrink.....Again, things have improved, but I'd really like to see thing continue.

 

[voip-ninja]

I'll start with my positive....Telsa has done a great job improving EAP's reaction when people cut in and reduce your gap. They used to be really harsh and slam the brakes very abruptly, now they are better. But EAP is definitely NOT as good as I am in terms of smoothness and evaluating the urgency of slowing and regaining the gap. EAP seems to really want to keep ALL that gap at all times.

My question is this: Can Tesla just take the gap (as dictated by your setting of 1-7) and use some of it to "lift" the accelerator and let the gap return? So if you have the setting dialed to the largest gap of 7, EAP might give 25% of that gap to EAP to lift and avoid braking. Potentially much smoother. If you have the smallest gap of 1, EAP might only be able to give 5% of that gap to EAP to lift, more harsh. Then, once that lift-gap is exhausted (like when someone cuts in AND is going slow), then the brakes might be necessary. But, people often cut in and don't pose a risk, if you just stop accelerating for a moment. This would result in much smoother results and likely could be done without additional risk. I'd really like EAP to smooth things out and allow the gap to temporarily shrink.....Again, things have improved, but I'd really like to see thing continue.

The auto pilot has to react very quickly and it is better for it to overreact to a car cutting you off and over-brake than play it conservatively (as myself and many human drivers do) and risk getting into a rear end collision.

It's possible that this will continue to improve as Tesla gathers more EAP data and the algorithms get better.

Personally I want the frunk deployed mini gun option so I can shred some of those a-holes that come racing up at 20+ mph over the speed limit and then jam into my lane, cutting me off, just so they can make their exit at the last possible moment.

 

[MXWing]

Personally I want the frunk deployed mini gun option so I can shred some of those a-holes that come racing up at 20+ mph over the speed limit and then jam into my lane, cutting me off, just so they can make their exit at the last possible moment.

What are you going to do after you just perforated them ED-209 style genius? Car is going to clog the road ways for you and everyone else afterwards...

I would like to propose the 'cockblock' neural net routine as an alternative.

{Scan for law-enforcement}

If law-enforcement exist
GOTO SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP ROUTINE

ELSE

COCKBLOCK

:COCKBLOCK
Set EAP Distance=0
Set WATTMILES =400
FlashHazzards=Yes
SetVolume =Max
Windows=Down
Play="Another One Bites the Dust"

 

[CullinKin]

Over time, things will get better. I'm sure the EAP software team is tearing through mountains of data every day. But these improvements take time, resources, and testing. For now, I can deal with the computer overreacting as at least I can be confident it will react accordingly... As long as it is monitoring my bumper to make sure the driver behind me is paying attention.

Personally I want the frunk deployed mini gun option so I can shred some of those a-holes that come racing up at 20+ mph over the speed limit and then jam into my lane, cutting me off, just so they can make their exit at the last possible moment.

So true! More and more of them every day.

What are you going to do after you just perforated them ED-209 style genius? Car is going to clog the road ways for you and everyone else afterwards...

I would like to propose the 'cockblock' neural net routine as an alternative.

{Scan for law-enforcement}

If law-enforcement exist
GOTO SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP ROUTINE

ELSE

COCKBLOCK

:COCKBLOCK
Set EAP Distance=0
Set WATTMILES =400
FlashHazzards=Yes
SetVolume =Max
Windows=Down
Play="Another One Bites the Dust"

Also a great idea.

 

[JGard]

The auto pilot has to react very quickly and it is better for it to overreact to a car cutting you off and over-brake than play it conservatively (as myself and many human drivers do) and risk getting into a rear end collision.

I disagree with that. Things happen in chain reactions. If your car overreacts to something, the person behind you could overreact more, this leading to something even worse. The worst thing a driver can do is take TOO evasive and unpredictable a maneuver.

 

[voip-ninja]

I disagree with that. Things happen in chain reactions. If your car overreacts to something, the person behind you could overreact more, this leading to something even worse. The worst thing a driver can do is take TOO evasive and unpredictable a maneuver.

AP can't react with the speed that a human does, so if you have to choose between braking more rapidly and risking being rear ended or braking more slowly and risking being the cause of a rear end collision, which would you prefer occur?

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I sometimes use it as a reason to show off the high beams that everyone complains about.

 

[nvx1977]

In my experience, EAP does leverage regen braking. I tend to be paranoid and not trust EAP, so I'll put my foot on the brake to initiate the braking myself when someone cuts me off. Often times, I feel EAP reacting simultaneously with my urge to brake, and I'll end up not actually pressing the brake but rest my foot on it. And by doing this, I get feedback on whether EAP uses regen or friction brakes. The brake pedal will lower when EAP needs more stopping force. But for many situations, regen is sufficient. That said I feel like EAP handles cut-offs near flawlessly. If someone cuts me off but maintains my speed, my car doesn't even brake and will reduce throttle to create the desired gap.

 

[wenkan]

Technically I don’t think that’s impossible. AP can somehow see through the car in front of you to log the 2nd car ahead of you on your screen. That means the AP logic has that option to ease off as long as it knows nothing suddenly happens in the front.

However, I do want AP to implement the logic like “if see a turning light, speed up”.

 

[Dre78]

In my experience, EAP does leverage regen braking. I tend to be paranoid and not trust EAP, so I'll put my foot on the brake to initiate the braking myself when someone cuts me off. Often times, I feel EAP reacting simultaneously with my urge to brake, and I'll end up not actually pressing the brake but rest my foot on it. And by doing this, I get feedback on whether EAP uses regen or friction brakes. The brake pedal will lower when EAP needs more stopping force. But for many situations, regen is sufficient. That said I feel like EAP handles cut-offs near flawlessly. If someone cuts me off but maintains my speed, my car doesn't even brake and will reduce throttle to create the desired gap.

Same here for most situations of cars playing Pole Position on highway commute, especially at speeds over 45. EAP barely responds to car, then gradually increases distance. I'll see if I've got recording from boring commute recorded on GoPro last week.

At slower speeds, Model 3 does overcompensate braking when a car cuts in. I gently tap accelerator to keep movement smooth, per mention about abrupt braking as mentioned by @JGard .

All these incidents will only speed the full nanny state mandate of self driving cars... And as much as I love piloting a car, I can't say that I'm totally against full self driving vehicles as the law... I must be getting old...

 

[JGard]

AP can't react with the speed that a human does, so if you have to choose between braking more rapidly and risking being rear ended or braking more slowly and risking being the cause of a rear end collision, which would you prefer occur?

It shouldn't be an either-or situation. You should be paying attention and take over before it becomes an issue.

 

[derotam]

I'll start with my positive....Telsa has done a great job improving EAP's reaction when people cut in and reduce your gap. They used to be really harsh and slam the brakes very abruptly, now they are better. But EAP is definitely NOT as good as I am in terms of smoothness and evaluating the urgency of slowing and regaining the gap. EAP seems to really want to keep ALL that gap at all times.

My question is this: Can Tesla just take the gap (as dictated by your setting of 1-7) and use some of it to "lift" the accelerator and let the gap return? So if you have the setting dialed to the largest gap of 7, EAP might give 25% of that gap to EAP to lift and avoid braking. Potentially much smoother. If you have the smallest gap of 1, EAP might only be able to give 5% of that gap to EAP to lift, more harsh. Then, once that lift-gap is exhausted (like when someone cuts in AND is going slow), then the brakes might be necessary. But, people often cut in and don't pose a risk, if you just stop accelerating for a moment. This would result in much smoother results and likely could be done without additional risk. I'd really like EAP to smooth things out and allow the gap to temporarily shrink.....Again, things have improved, but I'd really like to see thing continue.

Well you already said it, that EAP is better now at not being so harsh. It is continuing to improve.

We all want the car to "be as smooth as me" but that is not a realistic request. Someone somewhere as to make a decision as to how the vehicle reacts to a situation with many variables. They also have to deal with the aspect of false positives and how do you mitigate for those scenarios. Right now is the HARDEST time for autonomy because the vehicle has to deal with "erratic humans"

As you said, it has gotten better, and it will continue to get better.

 

[Muskol]

In my experience it depends on how quickly the intruding car cuts in, if they move in slowly and gradually the EAP modulates and backs off to set gap in a smoother fashion. If it cuts in abruptly the braking is more aggressive.

What I usually do when someone cuts in abruptly, but I am comfortable with the gap I have, is over ride the EAP braking by applying the accelerator briefly to smooth it out. Than I release accelerator and AP resumes it's duties as this action does not disengage EAP.

 

[insaneoctane]

In my experience it depends on how quickly the intruding car cuts in, if they move in slowly and gradually the EAP modulates and backs off to set gap in a smoother fashion. If it cuts in abruptly the braking is more aggressive.

What I usually do when someone cuts in abruptly, but I am comfortable with the gap I have, is over ride the EAP braking by applying the accelerator briefly to smooth it out. Than I release accelerator and AP resumes it's duties as this action does not disengage EAP.

A couple of replies have mentioned pressing the accelerator to smooth things out. It is exactly doing this a lot recently that prompted me to write this thread (and then fail to mention it, of course). Every time I have to push the accelerator to override EAP to keep things smooth is room for improvement.

 

[StellarRat]

AP can't react with the speed that a human does, so if you have to choose between braking more rapidly and risking being rear ended or braking more slowly and risking being the cause of a rear end collision, which would you prefer occur?

You're telling us a computer is slower than a human?

 

[voip-ninja]

You're telling us a computer is slower than a human?

You apparently haven't used EAP much. There's zero question that I react to things much much faster than EAP does. The only area I can think of where EAP has an advantage is the forward looking radar because my biology does not have that particular sensor (but I do routinely scan traffic that is multiple cars ahead of the ones I am following).

You also might not understand that the much vaunted GPU used for EAP V 2.5 has about .1% of the horsepower of the human brain.

Computers are faster than humans at very specific tasks that can be broken down to basic calculations. When it comes to pattern recognition, predictive logic, threat assessment, etc., humans are MUCH better than computers.

Keep in mind that the world's greatest super computers only became capable of beating top level humans at one thing involving strategy, the game of chess, about 5-10 years ago.

 

[StellarRat]

You're telling us a computer is slower than a human?

I use it a lot on the freeway. It reacts just fine. What it doesn't do well is anticipate things like a human can, so it can't see circumstances that might cause a problem ahead of time like all the tail lights coming on two miles up the road. However, in an emergency braking situation it's much faster than I'll ever be.

 

[E-Powah]

Can we merge these two ideas and call it the Mini Gun Cockblock?

Personally I want the frunk deployed mini gun option so I can shred some of those a-holes that come racing up at 20+ mph over the speed limit and then jam into my lane, cutting me off, just so they can make their exit at the last possible moment.

Step 1 Cockblock

if that doesn't work...

initiate Step 2 Mini Gun protocol

I would like to propose the 'cockblock' neural net routine as an alternative.

{Scan for law-enforcement}

If law-enforcement exist
GOTO SUCK IT UP BUTTERCUP ROUTINE

ELSE

COCKBLOCK

:COCKBLOCK
Set EAP Distance=0
Set WATTMILES =400
FlashHazzards=Yes
SetVolume =Max
Windows=Down
Play="Another One Bites the Dust"

 

[MXWing]

Can we merge these two ideas and call it the Mini Gun Cockblock?




Step 1 Cockblock

if that doesn't work...

initiate Step 2 Mini Gun protocol

Truedat.

 

[derotam]

AP can't react with the speed that a human does, so if you have to choose between braking more rapidly and risking being rear ended or braking more slowly and risking being the cause of a rear end collision, which would you prefer occur?

I think it might be more appropriate to say that AP is not programmed to pre-react to what might happen.

Humans tend to pre-react to what they perceive will happen in the future. You may see a vehicle changing lanes towards you from two lanes over and thinking that they may continue into your path you may pre-adjust your speed and position to allow for the possibility. AP is only going to react AFTER the offending vehicle/object breaks it's "safety barrier".