EAP Removed By Tesla. Carvana Never Listed EAP but I assumed it came with it

[dlabrahams]

I purchased a used Model S from Carvana. I know that my car originally had EAP because I have a printout from ev-cpo showing that option came with the car when new. When I contacted Tesla through chat, they first stated that the car never had it. Once I stated that I have a printout showing that the car came with it originally, they stated that the car went through Tesla before Carvana and the feature was removed. A little suspicious that they changed their story midway through the conversation.

According to the CarFax, it was a one owner car and following the history and mileage of the vehicle, it does not show that Tesla ever had possession of the vehicle. How can I get proof that Tesla had the vehicle it its possession between the last owner and Carvana? Do I take their word for it or can I ask them to show me documentation that they had possession? Does Carvana have a deal with Tesla to sell cars from their inventory?

It's entirely possible that they are being truthful but I would feel much better knowing that what they are stating is indeed factual. I am prepared for that possibility. Any advise would help.

 

[ucmndd]

Lots and lots of Tesla trade ins and lease returns end up with Carvana. They must have some sort of deal with Tesla, yes.

Really, it doesn’t matter if you can prove it or not. Your beef is with Carvana, not Tesla. If they sold you a car and advertised it as having enhanced autopilot, and now it doesn’t, you need to take it up with them.

Sadly, lots of people ending up in this situation with Tesla used sales, because of Tesla’s shady and incompetent business practices.

 

[MP3Mike]

According to the CarFax, it was a one owner car and following the history and mileage of the vehicle, it does not show that Tesla ever had possession of the vehicle. How can I get proof that Tesla had the vehicle it its possession between the last owner and Carvana?

Why don't you just ask Carvana where they got the car from? Did they buy it directly from the original owner or did they purchase it at auction from Tesla? (If Tesla takes a vehicle as a trade-in and sells it at auction they wouldn't register it so it wouldn't show up on a CarFax report.)

It sort of sounds like you ran the VIN through EV-CPO and used that information in determine if it was a good to deal to buy or not. The problem is that many things could have changed, and you can't count on that information being accurate as to the current state of the car.

 

[dlabrahams]

Lots and lots of Tesla trade ins and lease returns end up with Carvana. They must have some sort of deal with Tesla, yes.

Really, it doesn’t matter if you can prove it or not. Your beef is with Carvana, not Tesla. If they sold you a car and advertised it as having enhanced autopilot, and now it doesn’t, you need to take it up with them.

Sadly, lots of people ending up in this situation with Tesla used sales, because of Tesla’s shady and incompetent business practices.

Carvana did not advertise it with EAP but I researched the vehicle before I purchased it and found that it originally came with it. I guess I was simply unlucky and assumed the vehicle came from a private sale, not through an auction.

 

[Tam]

...It's entirely possible that they are being truthful but I would feel much better knowing that what they are stating is indeed factual...

Once you bought the car from Carvana with the optional wheels on even when Carvana never said your car comes with them, Tesla just can't take them back without going through a legal process of repossession.

Unless there's a law dealing with this problem, Tesla has been pushing software-enabled features to the limit by disabling them and hoping that the next owner would pay up again.

 

[dlabrahams]

Why don't you just ask Carvana where they got the car from? Did they buy it directly from the original owner or did they purchase it at auction from Tesla? (If Tesla takes a vehicle as a trade-in and sells it at auction they wouldn't register it so it wouldn't show up on a CarFax report.)

It sort of sounds like you ran the VIN through EV-CPO and used that information in determine if it was a good to deal to buy or not. The problem is that many things could have changed, and you can't count on that information being accurate as to the current state of the car.

Yes, that is exactly what I did and you are correct regarding EV-CPO. My mistake for not confirming that it came from a private party and not an auction. I have asked Carvana for that information and so far, I am not getting a straight answer. I will continue to pursue this. If it was indeed obtained from an auction or Tesla directly, then I understand the policy of removing EAP. I don't agree with it but it seems that it is within their power to do so. Lesson learned but this is my first Tesla and so far I love the car. I won't let this spoil my experience.

 

[dlabrahams]

Once you bought the car from Carvana with the optional wheels on even when Carvana never said your car comes with them, Tesla just can't take them back without going through a legal process of repossession.

Unless there's a law dealing with this problem, Tesla has been pushing software-enabled features to the limit by disabling them and hoping that the next owner would pay up again.

It's unfortunate but it seems like they are getting away with it. I have not seen anyone have that decision reversed yet if the car was purchased through a Tesla auction.

 

[CapeOne]

It's unfortunate but it seems like they are getting away with it. I have not seen anyone have that decision reversed yet if the car was purchased through a Tesla auction.

If the car passed through Tesla’s hands as a trade-In, lease return or whatever, they are free to modify it anyway they choose. I don't really see this as "getting away with" anything. If Tesla took a trade-in that originally had 21" Turbine wheels and put on 19" Slipstream wheels instead, are they "getting away with" anything? As long as the car isn't misrepresented at the auction or at time of resale, I don't really see it as a problem.

An issue I do have is when Tesla doesn't deactivate EAP, FSD, etc. until well after the car has been sold at auction and is in the new owner's (dealer or prviate party) hands. It would be nice if Tesla could be a little more proactive here so that there is never a question if a car sitting at a dealer has EAP, FSD, etc. when it displays as such.

 

[BigNick]

If Tesla sold drugs instead of cars, they'd have been found years ago, face-down in a gutter with two 9mm holes in the back of their skull.

Maybe I watch too much TV, but I don't think street dealing is a business where you can last long when you habitually rip off your customers. Selling cars should be no different, except the punishment should be within the bounds of the law rather than "street justice." (I'm not advocating murder here, but compensation and fines are appropriate.)

Problem is, the legal system always seems to take a decade or two to catch up. So, like an unpatched OS vulnerability, this will be exploited until it is fixed.

 

[2101Guy]

You purchased the car as advertised from Carvana. Carvana didnt advertise it as having anything other than basic AP.

Am I missing something where Tesla or Carvana are supposed to be liable for something in this scenario to the buyer?

 

[ucmndd]

If the car passed through Tesla’s hands as a trade-In, lease return or whatever, they are free to modify it anyway they choose.

WHILE THEY POSSESS THE CAR.

If the two-owners-ago party that owned your car showed up in your driveway a few weeks after you bought it and said “lol I meant to take these wheels off before I sold it to the last guy, sorry!” they might rightly get shot.

It’s shady and indefensible. They should get taken task for it.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Carvana did not advertise it with EAP...

Then you really have nobody to be mad at but yourself for not asking for the screen showing "Enhanced Autopilot, Included Package" to verify that the car had it at the time of sale. Going off of a 3rd party aggregate of data like EV-CPO isn't going to get you very far since they have zero affiliation with Tesla. It's a helpful tool but by no means is it the final word in anything. You need to verify all things for yourself or suffer the consequences of not doing your due diligence. People are far to reliant these days on entities they know little to nothing about.

This is the part where someone comes at me for being "evil" or "mean" but those are the facts and I'm not going to sugar coat it.

 

[linux-works]

you know, all this could be cleared up with a status screen and some well defined (legally and otherwise) enum values.

example: you have a table that lists the software features, what the volatility status us, what the date of activation was, who activated it, what the current status is, any expiration dates, maybe comments.

yeah, lots of columns on that table and all the features on the rows.

volatility is 'is this permanent, like paint color; or is this a resettable feature that is set/clearable by the vendor'. one enum value for the status column might be 'bought' another would be 'leased' (for the $200 fsd option) another would be 'limited time' (for when you are trying something out on an eval period).

if ALL that were clear and anyone could get a snapshot of that screen, then there would be full clarity.

I'm quite surprised no one in tesla has offered this as a customer screen. I bet they can do their little sqlite (or equiv) commands to get this table, but customers also deserve to see it. anyone buying or selling the car should see it.

like a software based maroney(sp?) sheet. but with modern columns that reflect how things work, today.

and I still want to put in a vote for my idea of using onetime programmable fuse-like eeproms for options, that way once its on the car, its there for good. maybe you could even pay more (sigh) to get that kind of status for an option, that way even the vendor cant take that option back in later sales.

 

[CapeOne]

WHILE THEY POSSESS THE CAR.

If the two-owners-ago party that owned your car showed up in your driveway a few weeks after you bought it and said “lol I meant to take these wheels off before I sold it to the last guy, sorry!” they might rightly get shot.

It’s shady and indefensible. They should get taken task for it.

Yes, that's why I also wrote that an issue I do have is when Tesla isn't more proactive in deactivating EAP, FSD, etc. If a car displays EAP, FSD, etc. at time of sale then it should include those features unless explicitly stated (in writing) that they will be removed.

It would be kind of like someone selling a car with 21" wheels still on it but stating in the ad that once the car is officially sold, they will be swapping out the 21" wheels with 19" wheels, or the buyer can purchase the car with the wheels for $X more, etc.

In the particular case here, it sounds like the OP was assuming the car had EAP simply because it had it before. What the car may have had when new or when in previous owners' hands isn't necessarily relevant.

 

[wwu123]

You purchased the car as advertised from Carvana. Carvana didnt advertise it as having anything other than basic AP.

Am I missing something where Tesla or Carvana are supposed to be liable for something in this scenario to the buyer?

Guessing if Tesla removes EAP from a car, it doesn't end up with basic AP software either. No lane keeping, no TACC, just dumb cruise control - cars from the EAP era didn't have basic AP as a standard feature.

 

[ucmndd]

Guessing if Tesla removes EAP from a car, it doesn't end up with basic AP software either. No lane keeping, no TACC, just dumb cruise control - cars from the EAP era didn't have basic AP as a standard feature.

Actually I believe they DO revert to the "basic autopilot" feature that is included with all new cars.

 

[dlabrahams]

The car does have basic AP. I just spoke with Carvana and the representative stated that they obtained the vehicle through a private party and not through auction or Tesla. However, he had no way to put that in writing (of course). Now back to Tesla to see what can be done.

 

[airborne spoon]

So you assumed the car had a feature, even though it was not advertised on any website or conversation, and you're upset that it doesn't have the feature you were never told it has?!?!?!

Never assume anything, the whole ass out of you and me thing comes to mind. Especially when buying a car you really should never make an assumption. How hard would it have been to email carvana and be like hey what features does this car have? AP2, 2.5, 3? or none of the above?

All I see is a consumer that didn't do his due diligence before making a large purchase. This is all on you for being a bad customer its nobody's fault but your own.

 

[MP3Mike]

The car does have basic AP. I just spoke with Carvana and the representative stated that they obtained the vehicle through a private party and not through auction or Tesla. However, he had no way to put that in writing (of course). Now back to Tesla to see what can be done.

But even that doesn't guarantee that the original purchaser didn't have Tesla remove EAP before they purchased the vehicle.

 

[dlabrahams]

So you assumed the car had a feature, even though it was not advertised on any website or conversation, and you're upset that it doesn't have the feature you were never told it has?!?!?!

Never assume anything, the whole ass out of you and me thing comes to mind. Especially when buying a car you really should never make an assumption. How hard would it have been to email carvana and be like hey what features does this car have? AP2, 2.5, 3? or none of the above?

All I see is a consumer that didn't do his due diligence before making a large purchase. This is all on you for being a bad customer its nobody's fault but your own.

So you are assuming that I DID NOT email or try to contact Carvana??? Well the "whole ass out of you and me" thing comes up with your statement! Thank you for your constructive and helpful input.