Purchased Tesla 2017 Model S 90D, Received 60D

[PCMc]

Sooo many things to comment on from when I last read this thread. None of this magically resolves a mess, but maybe provides some factual info that might help others avoid such mess in the future.

The VIN contains no actual information to tell you the battery capacity. If you want to see a good explanation of what each character in the VIN represents, you can look at the VIN decoder on the TeslaTap website. I'm sure there are others that are equally credible, but this one is one I know and provide the factual definition of each character, not some embellished comments. I know others have made similar comment in this thread already, but people have to quit thinking the VIN is some magic QR code or something that tells you everything.

Any site that tells you the battery capacity from the VIN is either using data they pull from other records that are linked to that VIN, or just plain showing you gobbledegook.

As I hope has been thrashed to ground already, but I'll repeat, Tesla did offer a 60D in this time frame that actually had a 75 battery pack and was software locked. There is nothing here that suggests to me someone swapped the battery and this has anything to do with it being badged or advertised as a 90D. Look back at some of the threads about hurricanes in Florida a couple years ago and Tesla "unlocking" extra range for owners to help them safely evacuate, and those were exactly those vehicles. Tesla removed the software cap temporarily so owners would have extra range, or could charge to higher capacity to hold them until local power disruptions were resolved.

Regarding the "official" Tesla document that the OP posted which the dealer claims they used as the basis of their 90D claim. Look closely at the fine print on the bottom. While the document has a Tesla logo, making it look really official, it is actually from a 3rd party source, autoipacket, which is nothing more than a glorified carfax type of service that will provide you what they feel is "representative" data of what the window sticker might have said. So as the disclaimer states, they make no guarantees or offer any warranty on the factual correctness of that data. The fact they provide it on what looks like an offical Tesla document might fit what some may view as a bit shady.

Do some owners or dealers alter the badging on vehicles? Yes they do. Large range of reasons, some reasonable, some downright shady or manipulative. Yes, that appears to have happened in this case.

Regarding passing the Massachusetts vehicle inspection, if it really did it, then that dealer needs to have their inspection license revoked in my opinion. You can find some decent documents on-line from the MA government that details all the vehicle systems that must be tested to pass. This includes both brake and suspension system checks, and Mass will fail a car for so much as a cracked tail light, let along brakes that are obviously shot. Here's a link in case you want to have it for reference.

Basic Inspection Information — Mass Vehicle Check

www.mavehiclecheck.com

Regarding the battery actually in this car, the data provided of displayed rated range of 175 miles at 90%, suggesting current capacity at 100% of 194 miles, suggests about 11% range degradation from the 218 mile rated when new. That's not out of line for a vehicle of this vintage, age, and mileage (note ... calendar time is as much a factor in battery degradation as miles driven).

None of that helps the OP who unfortunately is in what seems like a painful situation. I'm generally not one to jump to legal action, but I totally understand where that, or at least the threat of that, might be fully justified and reasonable in this situation,

 

[sjdaniels]

Not sure if anyone may know this or not, but I can not find the battery data and health check in the service tech settings. I know we have determined it's a 75, but software restricted, I just can't find the battery health report... it's like it's missing.

 

[PCMc]

Not sure if anyone may know this or not, but I can not find the battery data and health check in the service tech settings. I know we have determined it's a 75, but software restricted, I just can't find the battery health report... it's like it's missing.

View attachment 972477
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Battery health report feature is not available on this vintage of Model S. Only available for the latest models. If I understand correctly has to be at least what's known as the Palladium platform, new horizontal center screen layout.

 

[sjdaniels]

Battery health report feature is not available on this vintage of Model S. Only available for the latest models. If I understand correctly has to be at least what's known as the Palladium platform, new horizontal center screen layout.

Thank You.

 

[brainhouston]

This was the only unit in FULL black interior. If I wanted beige pillars or ceilings with black leather seats I would buy a Dodge. No working sunroof is essentially a panoramic sweat tank. I need the winter package because I often use heated steering wheels more than climate controls. I don't like the "Peanut Butter" interior or any Wood or Carbon Fiber. I'm extremely picky... yes. But I learned a long time ago, if I'm paying for it... make sure it's what you want.

i'm with u on this 100%
every time i bought a car with one feature i wanted n sacrificed, i regretted it later
always get exactly what u want!

 

[ucmndd]

always get exactly what u want!

Even if it's really a beat to *sugar* 60D that you didn't look at or inspect in any way before you bought?

 

[brainhouston]

Even if it's really a beat to *sugar* 60D that you didn't look at or inspect in any way before you bought?

this wouldn't be what was WANTED lol

 

[sorka]

Don't get me wrong, what you say makes perfect sense. I'm just not a guy that lives on sensible.

If you're not sensible, have you considered ordering a brand new LR? The prices will likely never be this low again.

 

[sjdaniels]

If you're not sensible, have you considered ordering a brand new LR? The prices will likely never be this low again.

In todays market, used market, people are stressed at the high resale cost and bloated interest rates. I have quite a few dealer friends, just not nearby, and they are constantly shocked at even other dealers auction pricing.

What no one seems to realize is that there are many NEW vehicles selling for 10-20k less then they did 5-6 years ago.

Example. A brand new (2023) Plaid is less then this (2017) 60D was full retail in 2017.

I DO NOT buy new. I did ONCE in my life and it was an absolute nightmare. Example, the sunroof wouldn’t close in a lightning storm. Drove straight to the dealer and they had possession of the vehicle for 3 weeks! Why? Well… it’s a new model, we don’t have any parts yet.

This was after the day of pickup, where the in dash entertainment system went POP and filled the car with smoke… LITERALLY driving off the lot, not joking. I made a U turn and they ended up pulling another system out of a brand new vehicle for sale and installing it into mine.

Oh… let’s not forget that the Ding, Ding for lights left on didn’t function and my ex-wife left the lights on (of course she did). No big deal, buy a new battery. After an entire day on this mission and no shop even having it in their parts list, I called the dealer. Oh, that’s currently a dealer only part. What!? We don’t have enough of them for distribution yet.

But today, yes… new pricing can be less then used… and that’s nuts too.

I would rather purchase a vehicle that someone else has dealt with the malfunctioning errors and crap parts. You may disagree, but as I told my brother… Do you remember when you bought a refrigerator , a sofa or even underwear… there was always a tag or slip of paper that read “Inspected By : #”. He replied with a questioning facial expression, “Yes”. I then asked a simple question. When was the last time you saw one? He said “I honestly don’t remember. I don’t think anything I buy now has a sticker”. I replied “Not only does it not have a sticker… but it’s not inspected. That’s waisted labor costs.” Don’t pay attention to what the world tells you, pay attention to what they don’t.

Like the research that this particular vehicle had 7 major recalls. Some requiring days without the vehicle. Every one has been fixed. Every questionable part has been replaced on someone else’s life clock.

 

[dbeiler]

Regarding passing the Massachusetts vehicle inspection, if it really did it, then that dealer needs to have their inspection license revoked in my opinion.

It did not pass a Massachusetts vehicle inspection as is evident by the lack of an inspection sticker on the windshield (in the wiper video). I do not know where OP got the idea that it passes? Did this information come from the sales team? The sales team usually isn't licensed to perform safety inspections. Only technicians from the service department are.

 

[sjdaniels]

It did not pass a Massachusetts vehicle inspection as is evident by the lack of an inspection sticker on the windshield (in the wiper video). I do not know where OP got the idea that it passes? Did this information come from the sales team? The sales team usually isn't licensed to perform safety inspections. Only technicians from the service department are.

It actually comes from the GM of Sales who called and emailed yesterday… again, insinuating that I was lying. I said “No, your service center is lying”. He said he had the inspection report and all pads were at a six at the time of the sale. Here’s a synapse of the actual conversation.

Me - What the $&@! is a 6?

GM - All vehicles sold in Massachusetts are required to be at least a 3 for inspection in Massachusetts. I believe it means 3mm.

Me - Oh, so… in New Hampshire it’s a 2. We require 2mm.

GM - 2? Then what’s the problem?

Me - They are all a 1 or less. One is a 0. Did you read the report or watch the video?

GM - Yes, I saw it… I’m just clarifying.

Me - You made me wait an extra hour last Friday so they could “fix” the rims. You had a “contractor” come to do it because your shop doesn’t do it. Remember?

GM - Of course.

Me - So, watch the video and you will see it also fails for the “repair” your service said they already did. Where’s your shops inspection videos? Video don’t lie bro.

GM - Yah, I see that. Our shop doesn’t use video. I’ll get back to you.

…and he has not. They are lying, they got caught, and they don’t want to admit it.

I don’t know if he’s operating under advisement, policy or what? But there was accusations and innuendos of my fault or shop deception… UNTIL I made it clear that the dealership and the shop I went to is actually owned by the same owner, IRA. Then they clam right up! Either way you slice it, the parent company has to eat it.

I think that’s what’s causing the limbo. There’s nowhere to point when you cut off their fingers.

 

[jjrandorin]

I mean at this point this is another in a long (long) line of "Auto dealer deception". Other than just having a running commentary of what you are going through, what information are you looking for from people here now that you have identified what was sold to you?

 

[sjdaniels]

I mean at this point this is another in a long (long) line of "Auto dealer deception". Other than just having a running commentary of what you are going through, what information are you looking for from people here now that you have identified what was sold to you?

Right now? Nothing. I've received a wealth of information and most importantly to me... validation. I thought I was going nuts. I now know a lot more now on what to look for, what to avoid... very valuable, was where to find the information on the vehicle or in the system.

I was hoping someone had a similar experience, within the group, and could provide a happy ending to their situation. That does not appear to be the case.

Currently, I'm just waiting for my situation to resolve so I can post the final outcome... and answering any questions along the way... as above.

 

[sorka]

I would rather purchase a vehicle that someone else has dealt with the malfunctioning errors and crap parts.

Your reason for purchasing used is the exact opposite of why I tend purchase new. First, in the last 15 years, I've found purchasing new is often nearly the price of used if you're willing to be patient and wait for deals.

Second, I've had too many literal nightmares buying used only to find there were tons of undisclosed issues which was undoubtedly the reason the seller was trying to dump it. Fewer issues with well taken care of higher mileage older vehicles and more issues with newer just out of warranty vvehicles.

Worst experiences of all have been used cars from dealers. Never EVER not had a used car dealer try to screw me over including the "we forgot this fee or we accidentally charged you the wrong price. Please come by and pay us thousands more."

 

[ucmndd]

Your reason for purchasing used is the exact opposite of why I tend purchase new. First, in the last 15 years, I've found purchasing new is often nearly the price of used if you're willing to be patient and wait for deals.

Second, I've had too many literal nightmares buying used only to find there were tons of undisclosed issues which was undoubtedly the reason the seller was trying to dump it. Fewer issues with well taken care of higher mileage older vehicles and more issues with newer just out of warranty vvehicles.

Worst experiences of all have been used cars from dealers. Never EVER not had a used car dealer try to screw me over including the "we forgot this fee or we accidentally charged you the wrong price. Please come by and pay us thousands more."

I have to agree. This story in a nutshell is why I’d never in a billion years buy a used car sight unseen from a dealer.

 

[dbeiler]

It actually comes from the GM of Sales who called and emailed yesterday… again, insinuating that I was lying. I said “No, your service center is lying”. He said he had the inspection report and all pads were at a six at the time of the sale. Here’s a synapse of the actual conversation.

Me - What the $&@! is a 6?

GM - All vehicles sold in Massachusetts are required to be at least a 3 for inspection in Massachusetts. I believe it means 3mm.

Me - Oh, so… in New Hampshire it’s a 2. We require 2mm.

GM - 2? Then what’s the problem?

Me - They are all a 1 or less. One is a 0. Did you read the report or watch the video?

GM - Yes, I saw it… I’m just clarifying.

Me - You made me wait an extra hour last Friday so they could “fix” the rims. You had a “contractor” come to do it because your shop doesn’t do it. Remember?

GM - Of course.

Me - So, watch the video and you will see it also fails for the “repair” your service said they already did. Where’s your shops inspection videos? Video don’t lie bro.

GM - Yah, I see that. Our shop doesn’t use video. I’ll get back to you.

…and he has not. They are lying, they got caught, and they don’t want to admit it.

I don’t know if he’s operating under advisement, policy or what? But there was accusations and innuendos of my fault or shop deception… UNTIL I made it clear that the dealership and the shop I went to is actually owned by the same owner, IRA. Then they clam right up! Either way you slice it, the parent company has to eat it.

I think that’s what’s causing the limbo. There’s nowhere to point when you cut off their fingers.

The GM in dealerships usually have near-zero experience with the nuts and bolts of cars. They are mostly Six Sigma MBAs who know marketing and margins. You talk to them about brake pads and inspection requirements; you might as well be speaking French.

In the context of federal and state inspection regulations, brakes and tires are always measured in 32nds of an inch. This may become confusing because vehicles have been metric for 20+ years. The service manuals for many vehicles give metric minimum brake lining thickness measurements. Federal and state inspections are SAE. It's important to distinguish between 2/32" and 2mm. They are not the same.

Used car dealerships usually document two or three separate inspections for each vehicle. The first would be the PDI (pre-delivery inspection). This remains internal to the dealership and has minimum standards for brake lining and tire measurements set by management in the dealership. It is typical to have a minimum standard of 3/32" or 4/32" to pass the PDI as this gives a bit of a buffer before the car hits the 2/32" minimum limit set by most state inspection requirements.
The next inspection would be for CPO (certified preowned vehicles) if the vehicle is eligible (there are usually mileage and age maximums). These inspection standards are set by the vehicle manufacture. The dealership must ensure the vehicle meets the minimum standards set by the manufacture and use OEM parts and repair procedures if they wish to sell the vehicle as Certified.
The final inspection would be for State Safety inspections, assuming the vehicle is in a state with a mandatory inspection program. These inspection standards are set by the state safety inspection program. They are usually fairly similar to federal requirements. Most programs have 2/32" as the lower limit for tires and brake linings on passenger cars.

Massachusetts does not have a lower limit for brake linings. When the GM mentioned a 3 (32nds, NOT mm) as a limit, he was either referring to the dealership PDI or he simply had no idea what he was talking about. Massachusetts determines brake pass or fail by stopping distance, not by lining thickness. Your car would probably pass the brake test.

Section 21.03 - Vehicle Inspection Procedures, 540 Mass. Reg. 21.03 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Section 21.03 - Vehicle Inspection Procedures, 540 Mass. Reg. 21.03, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

New Hampshire inspection has a brake lining thickness minimum of 2 (32nds, not mm). Section Saf-C 3212.02 - Brakes, N.H. Code Admin. R. Saf-C 3212.02 | Casetext Search + Citator.
Your Lexus dealership employed inspector stated 2mm is the minimum. She is incorrect and failed to distinguish the difference between SAE and metric. That multi-colored, plastic brake lining gauge in her hands is metric. I know because I own the exact one. Those gauges are metric because most vehicle repair manuals now use metric specifications. She is doing arguably invalid State Safety inspections by using a metric gauge. In the video, she seems to imply the brake linings were measured from the outside of the rotor, looking through the middle of the caliper. Also, an arguably invalid method of measuring brake linings. Most brake rotor friction surfaces are cast steel. As the exposed steel on the outside edge of the rotor slowly corrodes, the metal pushes outward and you end up with an outer rotor lip that is wider than the original rotor. This lip covers a portion of the brake lining making it appear thinner than it really is. The correct way to measure brake lining thickness is to remove the pads from the caliper. The slightly less correct, but most common, method of measuring brake linings (without removing pads) is by inserting the gauge into the pad from the center of the rotor (from the axle nut, towards the caliper) instead of inserting the gauge from the outside of the caliper in towards the axle nut, thereby eliminating the interference of the expanded rotor lip.

Regardless of measurement method, the brake pads do appear low. A decent dealership would have replaced those front brakes before selling the car.

 

[MSJack]

Sounds like someone replaced the 90kWh pack with a 60kWh which means no amount of software updates will make it a 90 again. Easy way is to check the battery pack label by laying on the ground next to the passenger side front wheel & then looking behind the tire into the wheel well towards the front corner of the HV pack.

Most likely scenario is the battery pack failed & was replaced w/ a 60 pack due to cost and then passed off as a 90. This doesn't make a lot of sense though since it should have been under warranty unless it was a salvage title or the pack was physically damaged, voiding the warranty. You can open a service ticket through the app and they can confirm this (possibly even remotely) but this would also likely void any balance of the 8yr HV battery pack warranty if someone that wasn't Tesla replaced it.

Summary: yes, you got screwed. Your beef isn't with Tesla or even the previous owner though. The dealership sold you a Model S 90D so they need to provide you with a 90D.

Why on earth would someone want to downgrade a 90 to a 60????

 

[SoCal Buzz]

Why on earth would someone want to downgrade a 90 to a 60????

$$$

 

[MSJack]

$$$

I see

 

[Krash]

Imagine two poker buddies. One had a 60 that was in great shape and he polished it with a microfiber in the garage but never drove it. The other buddy had a 90 that had been abused on Turo and that his soon to be ex-wife got in the divorce decree. A few more beers and…