Earth rod or no earth rod?

[melbrayporkpie]

Had and electrician out to check my drive to install a Pod-Point charger. He’s not done many chargers before and seems to think all ev chargers need an earth rod. I thought the Pod-Point doesn’t need one, but the electrician questioned whether Tesla would insist on home chargers to have one? Does anyone know anymore on this subject than me. I’ve no idea yet but from his description of what he’d have to do (scanning the ground under the drive and driving a rod in) it sounded expensive. And in his words ‘it’s not going to be cheap! I already have a type 1 charger as I’m replacing my PHEV so thought it’d be an easy job!? Any help greatly appreciated!

 

[Sixer]

Get an earth rod fitted. Apparently it’s in the new EV charging point standard. I haven’t got the document to hand but I did some research beforehand when I got mine installed. I think I was charged £60 extra for it. All it is is a copper rod with a cable attached to the end. It’s a good precaution to take.

 

[Radders]

i had mine installed from pod point, and no earth rod required, i believe they have some device that constantly monitors the earthing and an inbuilt double pole isolator (i'm not 100% sure, and i would imagine someone on here will confirm).

 

[Radders]

obviously they will take earthing readings once installed, and if particularly bad they will still need a rod.

 

[365gtb4]

It's cheap insurance, I have them on both my HPWC's, one at my garage and one at my shop.

 

[Sixer]

Correction - apparently there has been another recent revision to the BS standard. Some EV chargers have a device in them to negate the need for the rod. If it was me I’d still have one fitted for peace of mind.

 

[chrisevans1001]

Interesting - I've been told by 3 installers now that they won't fit an earth rod any more as new regulations indicate they must use something better. It goes in the meter cupboard. Beyond that I can't tell you what it is which I know isn't very helpful! I have EO coming out to install mine and their contractor said the same.

 

[Mr H]

No rod on my Podpoint

 

[Airbag80]

I started a thread on this a few weeks ago.

TESLA Charger Install - No earth
an independent earth rod is safer..., quicker trip... also needs to be independent as you don't want your radiator and taps going live now do you

But i've got the matt-e unit installed, which is a relay (contactor) which disconnects Live, Neutral and Earth once a fault is detected. with a Type A RCBO

Some questions around if they are in true compliance...... but the new update to the Regs in section 722.411.4.1(iv)
https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2337/amendment1_read-only_final.pdf
suggest also these are also in compliance.

from what i can understand, like Mr H says, few years ago there was limited or no regs at all, so lots of different approaches.

 

[chrisevans1001]

But i've got the matt-e unit installed, which is a relay (contactor) which disconnects Live, Neutral and Earth once a fault is detected. with a Type A RCBO

That is the thing that they've said to me when coming out to assess! Now I know. Cheers.

 

[melbrayporkpie]

I started a thread on this a few weeks ago.

TESLA Charger Install - No earth
an independent earth rod is safer..., quicker trip... also needs to be independent as you don't want your radiator and taps going live now do you

But i've got the matt-e unit installed, which is a relay (contactor) which disconnects Live, Neutral and Earth once a fault is detected. with a Type A RCBO

Some questions around if they are in true compliance...... but the new update to the Regs in section 722.411.4.1(iv)
https://electrical.theiet.org/media/2337/amendment1_read-only_final.pdf
suggest also these are also in compliance.

from what i can understand, like Mr H says, few years ago there was limited or no regs at all, so lots of different approaches.

Sorry am I right in thinking this unit replaces the earth rod? I presume it’s a much easier install? I shall recommend this to my electrician.

 

[Airbag80]

You still use the Earth in your house and it gets connected to the charge point. tesla (I believe) require earthing. Which is really just basic electrical safety.

It replaces the new or extra earth rod. Which they need to put down now as part of the new regs. It’s fairly good value to be fair, as it’s an all in one solution. See my link. And it was by far the cheapest of quotes. EV specialist in Brighton recommended it, he’s using them all the time. Hope this helps. You’ll see links in other post.

 

[awaghorn]

So all very interesting - I have a charging point from installation about 4 years ago when I had a phev, rolec unit which i paid a bit more to have as a 32amp rather than 16 (which is all the PHEV could use). I know normally wiring regs are "as they were in force at time of installation" so presumed I would be fine just using that but does anyone know different?

 

[arg]

I would still recommend an earth rod in most circumstances for an outdoor chargepoint. It is an approach that has always been permitted by the regulations, and is usually cheap to do.

There are some cases that are more tricky - mainly where there's no clear demarkation between "indoors" and "outdoors" - and for those cases these other approaches may be worth considering. In some areas ground conditions may make getting a satisfactory earth rod installed is difficult and again that would drive you towards other approaches.

Bear in mind that the Matt:e unit is almost certainly more expensive than any reasonable earth rod, and sits there drawing a few watts of electricity 24x7. In my view it typically offers a lower level of safety, though that is arguable since you are balancing several different risks here.

 

[MrBadger]

Sorry am I right in thinking this unit replaces the earth rod? I presume it’s a much easier install? I shall recommend this to my electrician.

On reading the thread about that device, I personally would not touch it with a barge pole. I personally would not like the car to get a DC fault and the only route for 400v DC was back through me because the unit cut l/n/e..

As an aside - I don't know why an 'unproven' technological device is any easier to fit than a cheap and easy to fit earth rod or two sunk into the ground and checked for resistance - its either like electricians no longer know how to fit and test for compliance these once common devices (I remember our phone line using a short earth rod - you got a crackle on the line, you just tipped a bucket of water on it) or they just want to upsell some over complicated solution. Properly fitted earth rod and a type B RCD is what I will be going for - covers all bases imho. The issue is that type B RCD's (or type A with >6mA detection - 'type-A-ev') use to be very expensive (many £££) but now whilst not cheap as chips, are available at much more reasonable price (around £££).

 

[Buttybach]

Some of the above comments suggest that a matt.e might fail but an earth rod will always work. How about a dry summer , ground shrinks and very poor earth connection with dry soil ?

 

[MrBadger]

Some of the above comments suggest that a matt.e might fail but an earth rod will always work. How about a dry summer , ground shrinks and very poor earth connection with dry soil ?

Thats why they have regulations that take that and ground conditions into account - and if things are marginal, all it needs is a second rod.

 

[Buttybach]

How many electricians take a core sample and decide on a second rod thoufgh?

 

[tsh2]

Some of the above comments suggest that a matt.e might fail but an earth rod will always work. How about a dry summer , ground shrinks and very poor earth connection with dry soil ?

Still a better return path than a body standing on bone dry earth, and it will 'help' the ELCB to trip by sharing the fault current with your heart too.

 

[MrBadger]

How many electricians take a core sample and decide on a second rod thoufgh?

You don't need to take a core sample. They have meters to know if it meets regs. And a decent sparky should know what will likely work just by looking at it - one bloke who came to quote for me said I may need a second as I'm on a slope. At end of the day, it needs to pass the compliance test, just like every other part of the install. If it fails, its simple to add a second rod. tbh, at a few £ a rod, I'm tempted to just have him drive in a couple extra along the side of the garage wall.