Elon confirms NO FSD transfer will be offered :(

[Robotpedlr]

If someone else on here has a 2017 MS 100D with about 30k miles and all options including EAP, but NOT full self driving, we can compare numbers to see how mine (with FSD) compares to yours without.

I tried that with a random VIN I found online, and there was a big gap (mine was about 7k more, but I dont know if the other one had comparable options).

Mine was a late (Dec 2017) delivery..so if there is a Twin out there without FSD lets see...

 

[stopcrazypp]

If someone else on here has a 2017 MS 100D with about 30k miles and all options including EAP, but NOT full self driving, we can compare numbers to see how mine (with FSD) compares to yours without.

I tried that with a random VIN I found online, and there was a big gap (mine was about 7k more, but I dont know if the other one had comparable options).

Mine was a late (Dec 2017) delivery..so if there is a Twin out there without FSD lets see...

Probably people should start a dedicated thread for trade-in values (if there isn't already) so a bigger group of people can see and post it in. It's going to be hard to do something like this with everything scattered in various different threads.

 

[Robotpedlr]

Probably people should start a dedicated thread for trade-in values (if there isn't already) so a bigger group of people can see and post it in. It's going to be hard to do something like this with everything scattered in various different threads.

Maybe, but I was just curious about getting one data point at this stage.

 

[CapeOne]

Unless Tesla is willing to provide a detailed line by line trade evaluation e.g., 21" wheels adds $X, FSD adds $X, miles adds or deducts $X, condition adds or deducts $X, etc. there is no way to know for sure what Tesla values FSD. It's only speculations and theories.

If Tesla wants/needs a particular trade for inventory, they will pay (closer to) fair market. If they don't, they won't. Just because they can add FSD for "free" doesn't necessarily mean they won't offer something for it in trade in order to lock in a sale, get a used car to resell for profit, etc.

Tesla's trade values can be wide ranging even for similar cars and have also been known to change notably after the 30 day offer expires.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I haven't been following closely, but wasn't the only feature that HW3 had that HW2.5 didn't (under EAP) extra visualizations (which was later added to HW2.5 anyways). I don't think the codebase is any different in terms of how AP functions between the two.

Also I'm not sure if the codebase for EAP will actually shift to the FSD when FSD is ready. Was any statement actually made that suggested this would happen?

The interesting thing about visualization is they were added to HW2.5 well after they were in HW3 so HW3 still got the initial attention. I expect them to keep doing that until they simply can't fit/rework a neural network for HW2.5. Supposedly the camera processing also happens more slowly in HW2.5 so it can't compete with HW3 in terms of frame rate with the same resolution.

So it really comes down to what can be added to HW2.5 given resource constraints (both with HW2.5, and with Engineers to do the work).

We also know that Tesla intends on having standard AP run the FSD code because Elon has tweeted so.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1353665950290235394?lang=en

If I was an EAP/HW2.5 owner my biggest concerns would be:

Pot Hole detection
Ability to navigate through a construction zone on the freeway
Ability to properly detect whether a semi is in the lane next to me or the lane next to that one. It tends to get confused, but only on Semi's. I assume its because it doesn't have the 4D view from all the cameras yet.
Ability to process the interior camera so it can see my head looking at the road, and not nag me.
Being smart enough not to get tricked by the lane widening on merge points while going down the right lane on a freeway (this is specific to states that don't use dashed lines for them).

 

[paaltio]

If I was an EAP/HW2.5 owner my biggest concerns would be:

Pot Hole detection
Ability to navigate through a construction zone on the freeway
Ability to properly detect whether a semi is in the lane next to me or the lane next to that one. It tends to get confused, but only on Semi's. I assume its because it doesn't have the 4D view from all the cameras yet.
Ability to process the interior camera so it can see my head looking at the road, and not nag me.
Being smart enough not to get tricked by the lane widening on merge points while going down the right lane on a freeway (this is specific to states that don't use dashed lines for them).

Also just simply the basic lane keeping, especially in tighter bends. I was always confused by the "without FSD it doesn't make any difference if you got HW3 or not" comments I saw in 2019, because just cornering speeds alone get more accurate when they can trust the neural nets and not rely on guesses based on map data.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Also just simply the basic lane keeping, especially in tighter bends. I was always confused by the "without FSD it doesn't make any difference if you got HW3 or not" comments I saw in 2019, because just cornering speeds alone get more accurate when they can trust the neural nets and not rely on guesses based on map data.

I give Tesla a hard time about a lot of things, but one thing I have to admit about the company is they really try to do right safety wise.

In this case lets say there is some animal in the road, and it has a 99.9% chance of being detected with FSD code running on HW3. But, only a 40% chance of being detect with old code running on HW3. Now I just pulled those numbers randomly, but I think its a perfectly reasonable to assume HW3 would have better detection rates that were easier (due to higher resolution).

To stay true to Tesla's mission they have to allow FSD code to run on HW3 even when the customer didn't pay for FSD.

And, the mission of safety is exactly what Elon intends to do.

The problem with EAP/HW2.5 people is its a bit of who caves first. Tesla is going to want EAP people to move to HW3 to unify the SW, but EAP/HW2.5 people are going to be like "Nah, you said this was going to work so make it work".

If I was a EAP/HW2.5 owner I'd be pretty stubborn about it.

So my belief is EAP/HW2.5 should put up a good fight to where Tesla has to upgrade them for free to EAP.

I've heard of Model S/X people with EAP getting HW3 when they upgrade to MCU2. But, I only one or two. I haven't paid much attention to the Model S/X threads.

 

[SSonnentag]

I give Tesla a hard time about a lot of things, but one thing I have to admit about the company is they really try to do right safety wise.

In this case lets say there is some animal in the road, and it has a 99.9% chance of being detected with FSD code running on HW3. But, only a 40% chance of being detect with old code running on HW3. Now I just pulled those numbers randomly, but I think its a perfectly reasonable to assume HW3 would have better detection rates that were easier (due to higher resolution).

To stay true to Tesla's mission they have to allow FSD code to run on HW3 even when the customer didn't pay for FSD.

And, the mission of safety is exactly what Elon intends to do.

The problem with EAP/HW2.5 people is its a bit of who caves first. Tesla is going to want EAP people to move to HW3 to unify the SW, but EAP/HW2.5 people are going to be like "Nah, you said this was going to work so make it work".

If I was a EAP/HW2.5 owner I'd be pretty stubborn about it.

So my belief is EAP/HW2.5 should put up a good fight to where Tesla has to upgrade them for free to EAP.

I've heard of Model S/X people with EAP getting HW3 when they upgrade to MCU2. But, I only one or two. I haven't paid much attention to the Model S/X threads.

Are you confusing HW3 with FSD 3 computer? I wasn't aware of any significant differences in sensor hardware from late 2017 until today.

 

[momo3605]

Are you confusing HW3 with FSD 3 computer? I wasn't aware of any significant differences in sensor hardware from late 2017 until today.

HW 3 IS the FSD computer. HW2.5 uses an older computer.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Are you confusing HW3 with FSD 3 computer? I wasn't aware of any significant differences in sensor hardware from late 2017 until today.

When a customer gets upgraded from HW2.5 to HW3 the only thing that gets upgraded is the computer. There are no sensor differences. I'm not sure what part of my post is causing confusion. Maybe the resolution part, but that's processing resolution and not sensor resolution.

Anyways that post is full of typos, and its readability is admittedly poor. At 1:55AM I really should be in bed.

For example:
"So my belief is EAP/HW2.5 should put up a good fight to where Tesla has to upgrade them for free to EAP."

That should read "So my belief is EAP/HW2.5 people should put up a good fight where Tesla has to upgrade them for free to HW3"

 

[designrs]

I would LOVE the option for a separate purchase of Auto-Lane Change though. I use that ALL THE TIME!

I just want lane change added to my base AP. Hope it will be a subscription feature soon. Tons of Tesla owners would add this feature for a modest monthly subscription.

 

[Kc5gts]

I would dearly love to think about upgrading to a model y, I have a 2019 model 3 that works great but I would like a bit more room.
I bought FSD, and really need it. My wife can't see spending 5k more for fsd on a new car.

I don't know I think they could get a lot of good will if they were open about what FSD adds to a trade in.
My GUESS is going to be about 25% of purchase price, as is typical behavior for car dealers.

i hope my guess is incorrect.

 

[designrs]

I just want lane change added to my base AP. Hope it will be a subscription feature soon. Tons of Tesla owners would add this feature for a modest monthly subscription.

Definitely! I’d pay a modest monthly fee.

 

[Kc5gts]

Heck I wouldn't be opposed to paying a transfer fee to a new car, or perhaps some reasonable maintenance cost per year.

so if this article still holds true, at some point you will be unable to purchase a tesla for any price like a normal car. Perhaps this is one reason why they won't transfer it.

Elon Musk: Tesla will stop selling cars [Update: at consumer pricing] once full self-driving is solved

Once cars can operate as robotaxis, there would be little incentive for the company to sell them when they can generate revenue by operating them as taxis.

electrek.co

FSD was the only reason I purchased a Tesla. I am one of those mythical persons that wants FSD to maintain my independence

 

[Cyberax]

Buying FSD and having it be not transferable is the same as buying Final Cut Pro on the Mac and having it be not transferable, even though it’s still your own account.

The problem is that FSD doesn't exist. My car is 3 years old now and at 110000 miles. This is more than half of the usable car life, yet the FSD hasn't been delivered. And now I don't think it ever will be.

Transferring FSD (that I paid for at the moment of purchase) to another vehicle would be the way to apologize for essentially cheating your customers.

As it is, I'm getting more inclined to join a class-action suit against Tesla.

 

[Kingoglow]

I'm getting more inclined to join a class-action suit against Tesla.

I see a lot of people say this but I never see anyone volunteering to start one.

 

[run-the-joules]

I see a lot of people say this but I never see anyone volunteering to start one.

Probably because nobody wants to put their name on paper as lead plaintiff so they can get harassed and doxed by Elon's sackriding cultists.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Probably because nobody wants to put their name on paper as lead plaintiff so they can get harassed and doxed by Elon's sackriding cultists.

On what basis are you making that accusation? Were previous class action plaintiffs doxed? There have been multiple class actions filed against Tesla, but I haven't seen reports of doxing or harassment of those plaintiffs.

There where some short sellers that were doxed in the past (as well as accusations of them doxing Tesla supporters in the first place, for example the whole Plainsite debacle), but haven't seen any reports of class action plaintiffs being doxed.

 

[run-the-joules]

On what basis are you making that accusation? Were previous class action plaintiffs doxed? There have been multiple class actions filed against Tesla, but I haven't seen reports of doxing or harassment of those plaintiffs.

There where some short sellers that were doxed in the past (as well as accusations of them doxing Tesla supporters in the first place, for example the whole Plainsite debacle), but haven't seen any reports of class action plaintiffs being doxed.

I shouldn't have said "probably", to be fair. That's one of the reasons I personally wouldn't do it, the other being that I simply don't want the added stress and aggravation when I already have too much of both in my life.

I don't know if it's happened in the past, but honestly, it's the same reason I blank out my plate in pics and don't share my VIN: It doesn't hurt anything to do it, and it could conceptually make it harder for someone with the right access and crappy impulse control from doing something stupid.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I shouldn't have said "probably", to be fair. That's one of the reasons I personally wouldn't do it, the other being that I simply don't want the added stress and aggravation when I already have too much of both in my life.

I don't know if it's happened in the past, but honestly, it's the same reason I blank out my plate in pics and don't share my VIN: It doesn't hurt anything to do it, and it could conceptually make it harder for someone with the right access and crappy impulse control from doing something stupid.

It's fine if you won't do it for personal reasons (I personally don't like sharing my info either), but the way you phrased it with "nobody" makes it seem like that should be a default expectation if someone organizes a class action against Tesla.

A quick search found there was a similar suit already filed on AP2 (then a $5000 option) where people got between $20 and $280 as settlement. There were 6 named plaintiffs and no reports of anyone being doxed or harassed.
Tesla agrees to settle class action over Autopilot billed as 'safer'