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Elon: FSD Beta tweets
- Thread starter Terminator857
- Start date
mtndrew1
Active Member
It can't be done now because of Wheel Torque required, even in 1 million attempts. So at the VERY least the Nag MUST be removed in 69.3.
If Nag is being removed in 69.3 it seems he would have bragged about hands free coming on Tweeter.
KArnold
Active Member
While Elon is correct that FSD Beta is quite good a lot of the time, I don't consider the situations where it currently fails 'the march of 9s'. I had two very good drives to and from work today, but also had two failures:
- On the way to work, I got the red hands of death because the forward facing cameras were blinded by the early morning sun.
- On the way home from work, my car failed to change lanes in time to take a left hand turn. Despite the fact that this is a straight road, clearly marked simple intersection, and it has made this turn many many times before.
DanCar
Active Member
I'll be impressed if Tesla can get to level 3 by end of next year. It is a risk decision. So maybe Elon tries it and cancels after the lawsuits come in for damaged cars? Not having to touch the steering wheel by end of this year, also seems impressive if it happens.
How about we keep things L2 and stop with the L3 and L4 nonsense. It's still L2 just without the wheel torque requirement. Just put your hands on your lap and pay attention to the road. If Beta does something wrong, lift your hands and take the wheel. Easy.
DanCar
Active Member
This is based on Elon's latest statements in the investor conference, saying no one needed in the car by end of next year. It makes sense to me since Elon is the one stating it.
See here if you missed the memo: Elon: FSD Beta tweets
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
That’s a little harsh.
Remember this could be prevarication, or a thought experiment in Elon’s mind.
Agreed though they would have to remove the torque sense to actually have this happen. Seems fine, even if not a good idea to remove your hands. Attention sensing might be good enough. Maybe they’ll get even better at detecting the glances down.
I think the torque requirement makes drivers less safe. Precious time and attention spent keeping the system happy rather than focusing on what the car is actually doing. At a *minimum* they should remove it for vehicles with the interior camera.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Initially this might be true. But then you just use it and there are no problems. Just a learning curve.
I have been using AP since 2018 and FSDb for over a year. It is still more of a distraction than an actual safety feature.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I mean it is hard to test the counter factual. Maybe we will soon though!
I do think they should do blended torque; this rigid steering wheel is silly.
But need those hands on wheel.
This talk about not needing someone in the car is producing flashbacks of that video from 2016 saying the person behind the wheel is only there for legal reasons, there is a huge amount of interpretation required.
I don’t know what any of these things mean in terms of the relevant stuff people want to know. I want to hear an analyst ask whether Tesla plans to take ownership of the dynamic driving task in the near future, even in a limited operating domain, which is what defines Level 3+. It’s really quite straightforward, but Elon has clearly been coached by the lawyers etc to carefully avoid discussion of the levels and just deflect to talk about stuff that isn’t at all tied to them. You can have a system that the regulators believe is “safer than the average driver” but is still L2, and I’m sure there’s a way to qualify away these statements about not *needing* a person in the vehicle.
I don’t know what any of these things mean in terms of the relevant stuff people want to know. I want to hear an analyst ask whether Tesla plans to take ownership of the dynamic driving task in the near future, even in a limited operating domain, which is what defines Level 3+. It’s really quite straightforward, but Elon has clearly been coached by the lawyers etc to carefully avoid discussion of the levels and just deflect to talk about stuff that isn’t at all tied to them. You can have a system that the regulators believe is “safer than the average driver” but is still L2, and I’m sure there’s a way to qualify away these statements about not *needing* a person in the vehicle.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
A recent study found hands-off systems produce measurably less safe results than hands-on ones--- so your thinking does not appear to reflect the real world outcome.
The only way I see them remove the hands-on requirement is when they think the intervention need is so low as to make that a non issue.
The interior camera can not do the same job the torque sensor can- especially given it was never intended for that work and thus it's both the wrong type of camera, and located in the wrong place.
KArnold
Active Member
The "March of 9's" is specifically a rate of SAEFTY-related failures/disengagement, not TOTAL fails, isn't it?
If true, the "red hands of death" qualifies but not missing a turn because it's in the wrong lane.
Which might also mean that's what FSD is once fully released, supposedly by year end. Not necessarily no nags, let alone something more than level 2. Hmmmm.
Link to the recent study?
Regardless, the torque sensor does not require you to keep your hands on the wheel. It requires you to tug the wheel at irregular intervals.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
He clarified this in the followup question.
More importantly, Must doesn't have rehearsed corporate sound bites as answers. It's all off the cuff - so very imprecise in his answers. Lot of people don't realize this - and we have endless fights here about what he said/meant.
IMO, this is just a usual "FSD is doing great and will soon be 'done'" message. Nothing new.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Despite warnings, many people treat partially automated vehicles as self-driving
Partial automation isn’t meant to replace the human driver. But for many owners, the technology is an enabler of dangerous multitasking behind the wheel.
www.iihs.org
IIHS study where among the results the hands-free GM users were significantly more likely to be comfortable treating their system as fully self driving-- and also the most likely to believe engaging in activities that are unsafe without the system (cell phone use for example) IS safe with the system turned on.
Well--- no--- though some people shut it up that way. What it's actually requiring is detection of resistance to the wheel being turned by the car.
And rather than tug the far easier way is just LEAVE a hand on the wheel, near the bottom, resting on your leg, which provides sufficient resistance... and ALSO saves you precious seconds when you need to intervene since your hand is already ON the wheel.
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