israndy
Supercharger Hunter
Like he said when he hosted SNL "Did you think I was also going to be a chill normal dude?"
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Elon Musk
- Thread starter graham
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Highly intelligent kids often end up intellectually way ahead of their peers, but emotionally behind them unless their parents or other adults force them to grow up emotionally. Because they are so smart intellectually too many people give them a pass on emotional growth and they end up being way beyond people intellectually, but low EQ as an adult.
Many years ago I had a girlfriend in the Triple Nine Society (like Mensa but for the top 0.1%). She was pretty well adjusted herself, but she said she went to a Triple Niner get together once and she said the room was split down the middle. Half were socially dysfunctional and the other half were well balanced and "normal" people socially.
She didn't say, but I would suspect the dysfunctional half were probably more heavily male. Girls are usually more encouraged to have social skills by their peers and families than boys.
On the other hand, we don't know how successful Elon or Steve Jobs would have been if they had better social skills. If they were more social they might not have been as driven as they were to create new things.
Many years ago I had a girlfriend in the Triple Nine Society (like Mensa but for the top 0.1%). She was pretty well adjusted herself, but she said she went to a Triple Niner get together once and she said the room was split down the middle. Half were socially dysfunctional and the other half were well balanced and "normal" people socially.
She didn't say, but I would suspect the dysfunctional half were probably more heavily male. Girls are usually more encouraged to have social skills by their peers and families than boys.
On the other hand, we don't know how successful Elon or Steve Jobs would have been if they had better social skills. If they were more social they might not have been as driven as they were to create new things.
Can't speak for Elon, and rather than make a long OT post of my experience (or rather, posting any of the versions I've already written), I'm just going to say, "You don't get it".
Sunvalleylaw
Member
He seems like a visionary, and ahead in terms of charging infrastructure, etc. Which is part of why I went with ordering my MYLR, rather than going with a competitor, and I just like the car better. But Tesla will lose its edge over time if it doesn’t get the service figured out. Gonna give a bit of a pass on the supply issues for now.
But he just says stupid, cringey stuff that makes him look like an entitled dick. I get that he disagrees with Bernies policies, but saying that stuff about whether Bernie is alive, and threatening to help tank the market is just a dick move.
But he just says stupid, cringey stuff that makes him look like an entitled dick. I get that he disagrees with Bernies policies, but saying that stuff about whether Bernie is alive, and threatening to help tank the market is just a dick move.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Bernie has never worked an honest day in his life... he's always been on the government dole and knows nothing about making payroll in the private sector.
He's a self-proclaimed expert on social welfare and income redistribution. The top 1 percent of all taxpayers paid 40.1 percent of all federal income taxes
Summary of the Latest Federal Income Tax Data, 2021 Update
The latest IRS data shows that the U.S. federal individual income tax continued to be progressive, borne primarily by the highest income earners.
taxfoundation.org
- Since 2001, the share of federal income taxes paid by the top 1 percent increased from 33.2 percent to a new high of 40.1 percent in 2018.
- In 2018, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97.1 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.9 percent.
- The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (40.1 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (28.6 percent).
- The top 1 percent of taxpayers paid a 25.4 percent average individual income tax rate, which is more than seven times higher than taxpayers in the bottom 50 percent (3.4 percent).
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Sunvalleylaw
Member
That‘s fine. Disagree with Bernie all you want, and so should Elon if he does. But in the way Elon expressed that, he still acted like an entitled dick was the point.Bernie has never worked an honest day in his life... he's always been on the government dole and knows nothing about making payroll in the private sector.
He's a self-proclaimed expert on social welfare and income redistribution. The top 1 percent of all taxpayers paid 40.1 percent of all federal income taxes
I suggest reading my Bernie Twitter synopsis in the main investor thread Wiki - Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
or this Google search.
site:twitter.com/berniesanders elon - Google Search
Tl;dr; Bernie has been an ____ to Elon for a while now.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
All well and good. I went with the TL/DR as I don’t do twitter, and see only what gets posted somewhere else. Presuming Bernie was an ____ to Elon, Elon still does not help his cause, and comes off also as an ____ when he so responds. I don’t love it if Bernie acted badly in a way ___ to Elon. Not excusing that. It should never be personal AFAIK. But, goes back to what my mom said about two wrongs, etc. And I think Elon hurts the his cause, and the cause of EV’s, when he has done more than really anyone to show what the future can be with these cars and network. Unfortunate behavior tarnishes his brilliant work to the detriment of himself, and all of us.
I was back reading some of this thread, and it appears he lacks social skills, at best, and can be horrible or close to a sociopath, at worst, depending on whose post one is reading. I don’t know the man, nor work at Tesla nor no anyone who does, so can only go off what he says in public.
I love his cars and charging network, love his home energy stuff, that I hope to incorporate into my house soon. I just wish he could behave better publicly, and take care of some of the human experience of his business such as service, etc.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Also, went back and read your post. Don’t see where Bernie was much of an ___ to Elon. The quotes you posted are about tax numbers, government incentives/assistance to his businesses, etc. Might be pointed, but not personal. And Forbes, which seems to be listed as center in terms of ”media bias”, seems to agree with the income tax numbers, from what I can see. Again, not to debate those policy issues, but whether Elon was acting like a jerk. And if Bernie was being personal, then as I said, not in favor of that either. But pointing out examples regarding tax liabilities doesn’t seem all that personal to me.
I am no tax expert, and don’t want to debate that here. Lots of room for debate on tax policy, and whereas I might enjoy a nice discussion over a glass of wine, the internet is not the place for me to choose to have such a discussion. Rather, my immediately prior post is more the point. Elon does not help his cause when he acts like that.
Also, going to back out of the room in terms of discussing Elon as a person or whatever. I like his cars and energy work, hope Tesla continues to succeed and overcome service issues, production issues, etc., and that I can implement some of his home energy products in my home given my goals. And I don’t expect people to be perfect. I certainly am not. Hoping you all are enjoying or will soon enjoy your cars or any other Tesla stuff you have going.
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The linked thread has the text quoted, so no Twitter needed. Ah, you read it.
Bernie:
crapped on multiplantary humans.
Lied about Tesla getting 4.9 billion twice
Called his wealth (which is 100% due to stock appreciation) greed
claimed Elon's low tax rate (since he has no income) unfair .
Elon has never dodged taxes. He has created 800+ Billion in value for other people. He has created >100k jobs.
Tesla got a loan from the government when the other OEMs did. And then paid it back early (unlike Ford). EV tax credits went to taxpayers, not Tesla.
Re other stuff:
Elon has Asperger's. He cares more about the missions of Tesla and SpaceX (and BC and Nl) than he does with playing nice with those who would seek to slow those goals or who grandstand for their own reasons.
War sucks, does that mean one should not defend? Elon has done more to help the cause of EVs than his words could ever hurt.
/end rehash of this thread
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Ok, regarding the first part of your reply, I can see that point of view. though will go back and check myself regarding the 4.9 billion thing. Not calling you out or saying you are misstating anything. I just check stuff. Habit from school and work.
The tax part, well, I am just not sure that is the best way to have a tax structure. Not saying it was not “fair” for Elon to play the rules as they exist. Just not sure it is the best way to generate money for stuff a government and society needs to operate. I prefer something closer to what we had under Ike. But modernized for today. But again, topic for somewhere else as far as my engaging in an ongoing discussion on that topic here.
WRT other stuff, ok, he has some excuse for being on the spectrum. the behavior still does not help him. And I agree even with his not playing nice in public, he has done more for EVs than anyone, and more than his words can hurt. Doesn’t mean he can’t do better, and I still don’t have to give him a full pass.
People like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren with their crusade are missing the distinction between people who are rich with lots of realized wealth and wealth that comes from non-realized wealth.
Most entrepreneur super wealthy got that way because they invented something people wanted and the stock market went nuts and ran up their non-realized wealth. They didn't set out to become that wealthy, it happened because people bought the stock and ran up the price. If Tesla's stock completely craters Monday morning and drops to $10 a share Elon Musk will only be worth about $2.8 billion instead of $280 billion and for it to crash like that it's probably something he had a hand in, but it was the stock holders speaking with their wallets that affected his net worth.
Non-realized wealth is funny money until they sell some stock. Until then it's just hypothetical wealth. And the nature of the market is such that it's impossible to realize all the wealth at once. Those who are cashing out like Bill Gates are doing so slowly a little bit every year because if he did cash out all at once it would tank Microsoft's stock price.
I wish they would make the distinction between realized and unrealized wealth when talking about these tax the rich ideas. Now one thing they could do is change the taxing structures around stock options offered to corporate officers for performance and make them less attractive to avoid taxes. Elon has benefited some from stock options, but there are corporate officers who had much worse performance who have been abusing that loophole for years to get rich.
But I believe the bulk of Elon's Tesla stock is still the portion of the company he got when he came on board in the early days. Though I could be wrong about that.
Most entrepreneur super wealthy got that way because they invented something people wanted and the stock market went nuts and ran up their non-realized wealth. They didn't set out to become that wealthy, it happened because people bought the stock and ran up the price. If Tesla's stock completely craters Monday morning and drops to $10 a share Elon Musk will only be worth about $2.8 billion instead of $280 billion and for it to crash like that it's probably something he had a hand in, but it was the stock holders speaking with their wallets that affected his net worth.
Non-realized wealth is funny money until they sell some stock. Until then it's just hypothetical wealth. And the nature of the market is such that it's impossible to realize all the wealth at once. Those who are cashing out like Bill Gates are doing so slowly a little bit every year because if he did cash out all at once it would tank Microsoft's stock price.
I wish they would make the distinction between realized and unrealized wealth when talking about these tax the rich ideas. Now one thing they could do is change the taxing structures around stock options offered to corporate officers for performance and make them less attractive to avoid taxes. Elon has benefited some from stock options, but there are corporate officers who had much worse performance who have been abusing that loophole for years to get rich.
But I believe the bulk of Elon's Tesla stock is still the portion of the company he got when he came on board in the early days. Though I could be wrong about that.
One person's view: Elon is not saying Bernie should not exist. He is commenting that Bernie's existence makes no noticable impact.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Now most of this I can agree with. I agree that billionaires should pay their share. And I am not going to fault Bernie for saying that. Now tasing unrealized gains, that i think is problematic. So some plan to tax non-realized wealth, or at least as I understand It, a paper gain that does not exist in the form of money that can be spent. Interesting idea regarding the stock options too.
Electric700
Active Member
In response to Bernie Sanders saying that the extremely wealthy should pay their fair share, Elon could have just said something like "Let's discuss". It would put him in a better light.
I and I'm sure many others appreciate what he and everyone at Tesla have done for EVs, solar power and the jobs market. It's really huge and if more tax credits / discounts are possible for Elon, I think he should get those.
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Terminator857
Active Member
Quote:
We had to shift some Starlink satellite orbits to reduce probability of collision. Not great, but not terrible either.
Station & Dragon have micrometeorite shields (ultra high velocity impact absorption), but EVA suits do not, hence higher risk for spacewalk.
We had to shift some Starlink satellite orbits to reduce probability of collision. Not great, but not terrible either.
Station & Dragon have micrometeorite shields (ultra high velocity impact absorption), but EVA suits do not, hence higher risk for spacewalk.
Terminator857
Active Member
Quote:
Let’s set an age limit after which you can’t run for political office, perhaps a number just below 70 …
Let’s set an age limit after which you can’t run for political office, perhaps a number just below 70 …
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
Great song. Text is likely about Elon.
But not a takedown or anger, but more a beautiful love song about letting the one you love free.
Also likely a reference to the Ian M Banks book Player of Games and perhaps the Expanse books/tv show.
Video and song here
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