Elon Tweet: No 'significantly new consumer-facing technology' in Model 3

[electracity]

That's a shame because if you want a performance sedan from Tesla, you must buy their "luxo barge".

So the P version of the M3 doing 0-60 in 4 seconds is not a performance sedan?

The only reason people buy the P version of the S/X is bragging rights. All Tesla's are easily performance cars in acceleration. None are performance cars handling due to weight, including the roadster.

 

[dhanson865]

I'm thinking this is an opportunity to get a low-mileage basic Model 3 in 2018, when people decide to upgrade.

I'm sure there will people with enough money to buy whatever gets produced first, and start a reservation for the build it as I really wanted it second car.

That first one will be the "I want to get rid of my ICE and don't want to drive a Leaf or Bolt" car. So they drive it for a year or so and get the dual motor or performance motor version later.

Still if they don't get the first one until 2018 and you are waiting for their hand me downs you might have to wait until 2019 or 2020 for that Model3 CPO or private sale.

 

[zenmaster]

So the P version of the M3 doing 0-60 in 4 seconds is not a performance sedan

4 seconds or less would definitely be a performance sedan. I meant within the lineup, however.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

That is NOT because Tesla is making a better "top level" car either.

Definitely not.

What they are selling is a (so far) unique EV drivetrain with large battery and a promising charging network, sprinkled with some unique software innovation on top. This in itself has a market that is quite different from the usual "top level big boys" car market. We have people coming from a Prius to Model S, totally buying out of their usual car class...

The rest of the car is completely meh compared to a high-end luxury sedan of the same price. I should know, I switched from one (a loaded Audi A8) to the Model S... because, again, the unique EV drivetrain has appeal in itself. But the rest of the car is perhaps two car classes beneath that Audi. I would say, Audi A5 level, not even Audi A6-A7.

Model 3 will reach even more such customers, definitely. Tesla can for some time get away with subpar interiors etc.

But once those I-Paces and Audi e-tron quattros come, Tesla better be ready to lift their game to the next level in those neglected areas as well...

I could easily see Audi having trouble competing with the cost and quality of the drivetrain and not being able to profitably make their electric car as nice as an A8 at a competitive price with the MS.

 

[electracity]

The Model 3 "hype" is primarily from speculation and rumors by people who do not work from Tesla.

At the reveal Musk clearly indicated that the controls were incomplete and that how the car would function would become clear at the next reveal.

Either Tesla failed at developing some feature like HUD in a timely manner, or there is more to come.

I find the M3 design very odd if it doesn't include HUD. The center screen isn't even oriented towards the driver.

 

[dhanson865]

They will hold back from it being faster than the S, as Musk already implied - not for a technical reason, but a product positioning reason.

bzzz wrong

Elon Musk on Twitter
"The shorter wheelbase only allows for a 75 kWh pack in Model 3 at current cell/module energy densities"

The difference between 100 kWh pack and 75 kWh pack is a technical reason and that will be enough to limit acceleration just because of the lower capacity pack.

Power limiting is a huge driver for 0-60 times, just see Pack Performance and Launch Mode Limits

 

[electracity]

4 seconds or less would definitely be a performance sedan. I meant within the lineup, however.

I think an unexpressed truth is that some guys have bought the P version but don't use full acceleration because it scares the crap out of them.

IMO there is a right amount of acceleration for a car. I don't find cars that immediately exceed the speed limit particularly fun. In an ICE car, winding out the gears in a fast but not too fast lightweight car is fun.

Porsche is claiming that they are not pursue sub 4 second acceleration in EV, IIRC. But they will likely have other superior performance characteristics.

 

[lunitiks]

For those concerned with having a sole center display, what would you think if the center display was mobile and could slide closer to (or, less likely, behind) the steering wheel?

Hsssssh! Don't disclose the secret

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I could easily see Audi having trouble competing with the cost and quality of the drivetrain and not being able to profitably make their electric car as nice as an A8 at a competitive price with the MS.

I'm not convinced a quality interior costs that much. Expertise and supply network for it, though, that takes experience.

I am sure electric cars will continue to come at a premium compared to similar ICE for some time, of course, but I would be very surprised if the likes of Jaguar and Audi suddenly lose their ability to craft and deliver quality interiors in the process...

 

[electracity]

Tesla should just charge more for the premium interior option.

All base cars will have Musk's ikea interior. The upgraded interior would be an attempt at best in class. Everyone is happy.

 

[Alketi]

For those concerned with having a sole center display, what would you think if the center display was mobile and could slide closer to (or, less likely, behind) the steering wheel?

Someone just posted an idea in the Investors thread --

What if the Tesla app were able to display all HUD information?

Mount your cellphone behind the steering wheel. Plug in to USB. Car data transfers over USB/Bluetooth. Problem solved (or at least improved). Someone tell @JonMc.

 

[Thomas Edison]

You mean like post #126 of this thread?

For those concerned with having a sole center display, what would you think if the center display was mobile and could slide closer to (or, less likely, behind) the steering wheel?

 

[zenmaster]

For those concerned with having a sole center display, what would you think if the center display was mobile and could slide closer to (or, less likely, behind) the steering wheel?

It's difficult to imagine how mobility could give that 15" display a practical advantage. It's really too big for that purpose and you'd be hogging it from the passengers which was one reason cited for centralization in the first place. Seems like there would be potential driver interference moving it any closer. You'd also have another moving part that can break over time.

Disconcerting that Musk announced only 1 display, esp as some kind of product differentiator! After all, displays are incredibly cheap. Some kind of cleanly mounted steering column digital gauges would be sufficient.

 

[Topher]

if only we could shift our eyes without moving our necks...

If only we didn't have progressive lenses that require looking through a particular portion for each different focal distance...

Thank you kindly

 

[dsvick]

Someone just posted an idea in the Investors thread --

What if the Tesla app were able to display all HUD information?

Mount your cellphone behind the steering wheel. Plug in to USB. Car data transfers over USB/Bluetooth. Problem solved (or at least improved). Someone tell @JonMc.

All that would do is move the info a few inches to the left and up a little bit, it still wouldn't be a heads up display - at least not in the traditional sense.

 

[Sonny Daze]

I find the M3 design very odd if it doesn't include HUD. The center screen isn't even oriented towards the driver.

I believe either Elon or the individual giving rides at the reveal event mentioned that it was that way on purpose so that everyone in the car was involved.

 

[Reciprocity]

My guess is no HUD for model 3 until you first see them in S/X. S/X will probably get the HUD with the next refresh along with 2170 based packs.

There is definitely only one screen and Elon is being very coy as he could clearly shoot down a HUD if he wanted to. He has said enough about the car to date that are bigger issues then a HUD. For example, no P or D for the first cars built. No battery over 75 kWh will fit yet. Those are very large ticket items that have more real world impact on the car and he is very open about talking about them. Why not shoot down the HUD in the same way he has shot down a batter larger then 100 kWh in S/X and 75 kWh in the 3? My only guess is that a HUD is in the works, but will not be in the base Model 3 that comes out this year.

I had a very dumb idea and wanted to bounce it off this forum. What if the instrument panel was replaced by a cell phone docking station? You dock your cell when you get into the car and it acts like a 3D accelerated, 4G instrument panel. They could then do away with the 4G modem in the car to keep costs down (though I think they will still have 4G to gather autopilot data). Even in S/X the data is only covered for 3-4 years? In 3-4 years, with 5G coming, unlimited 4G plans will be as common as free text messaging.

I know it sounds dumb, but it will save a ton of money on the base model. As an option, they could have a 7" Samsung tablet that could be detached and used by passengers for entertainment or for the driver during fully autonomous driving. Tesla did just contract with Samsung for some mystery process, everyone thought it was a future replacement for nVidia Drive PX2, but maybe its just a basic tablet? Integrating this into the car would be drastically more simplistic then adding another fully integrated screen, because all you would need is USB and a cell phone app.

Thoughts?

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

My guess is no HUD for model 3 until you first see them in S/X. S/X will probably get the HUD with the next refresh along with 2170 based packs.

There is definitely only one screen and Elon is being very coy as he could clearly shoot down a HUD if he wanted to. He has said enough about the car to date that are bigger issues then a HUD. For example, no P or D for the first cars built. No battery over 75 kWh will fit yet. Those are very large ticket items that have more real world impact on the car and he is very open about talking about them. Why not shoot down the HUD in the same way he has shot down a batter larger then 100 kWh in S/X and 75 kWh in the 3? My only guess is that a HUD is in the works, but will not be in the base Model 3 that comes out this year.

I had a very dumb idea and wanted to bounce it off this forum. What if the instrument panel was replaced by a cell phone docking station? You dock your cell when you get into the car and it acts like a 3D accelerated, 4G instrument panel. They could then do away with the 4G modem in the car to keep costs down (though I think they will still have 4G to gather autopilot data). Even in S/X the data is only covered for 3-4 years? In 3-4 years, with 5G coming, unlimited 4G plans will be as common as free text messaging.

I know it sounds dumb, but it will save a ton of money on the base model. As an option, they could have a 7" Samsung tablet that could be detached and used by passengers for entertainment or for the driver during fully autonomous driving. Tesla did just contract with Samsung for some mystery process, everyone thought it was a future replacement for nVidia Drive PX2, but maybe its just a basic tablet? Integrating this into the car would be drastically more simplistic then adding another fully integrated screen, because all you would need is USB and a cell phone app.

Thoughts?

Probably can't present the specific reasons for not needing a HUD until he shows us the full driving system/presentation. They don't appear ready to let that out yet. My guess is they'll want it to be ready for S/X deployment right away, and they can't even get 8.1 out right now.

 

[Sonny Daze]

I believe either Elon or the individual giving rides at the reveal event mentioned that it was that way on purpose so that everyone in the car was involved.

I was close. 2:40 seconds in.

 

[Garlan Garner]

So the P version of the M3 doing 0-60 in 4 seconds is not a performance sedan?

The only reason people buy the P version of the S/X is bragging rights. All Tesla's are easily performance cars in acceleration. None are performance cars handling due to weight, including the roadster.

I'm not going to care at all who knows that I will have the "P" version. It won't be bragging rights for me.

The "P" is for me.

I'm going to enjoy my next car for myself. I'm too old to worry about what others think.