Elon tweets "pure vision" will solve phantom braking

[diplomat33]

There's a report of radarless Model Y:

Vision Only Limitations

I have a MY-Vision only (no radar) and no FSD. A couple things are annoying and trying to figure out what is Vision only limitation and hopefully will be resolved with the latest release. 1. Max speed on AP is 80mph. Traveling on highways with a speed limit of 70, I set it at 78 mph. In my...

teslamotorsclub.com

"...every time the car is cresting a hill it will slow down/hesitate"

I would classify that as pure vision phantom brakes or unintentional brakes or undesirable brakes/deceleration

I am not sure I would call it phantom braking. Slowing down when cresting a hill is often a prudent thing to do since you can't always see what is lurking over the hill. I think this could be intentional behavior just to be safe.

 

[linux-works]

Phantom braking occurs even with automakers that have "fully tested" systems. And it's to be expected, given standard testing basically won't over all cases that you can encounter in the real world. I don't think it'll ever be completely eliminated,

my proposal, to all car makers, is to admit and accept this fact, and now to deal with it.

I see 2 ways, in parallel, to help deal with it.

1) special indicators on cars to show they are in some kind of autonomous mode
2) educate all new drivers (and old ones, too!) about the dangers of tailgating autonomous cars

that's it. we have to do that.

"go ahead; change my mind"

(I'm actually 100% serious)

 

[Tam]

I am not sure I would call it phantom braking. Slowing down when cresting a hill is often a prudent thing to do since you can't always see what is lurking over the hill. I think this could be intentional behavior just to be safe.

I've driven my 3 Tesla cars on the stretch of I-5 between San Francisco/Central Valley to Los Angeles climbing many tall hills/mountains and those 3 cars have never slowed down at all (combined odometers more than 200,000 miles in 9 years for 3 cars).

My 2012 Tesla was classic with no radar nor camera, just dumb cruise so that explained why it didn't slow down while reaching the top of the hills/mountains.

But my current 2017 and 2018 Telsas do have radars and cameras and they behave exactly as if it has a dumb 2012 cruise without slowing down on that same stretch at all.

 

[rxlawdude]

There's a report of radarless Model Y:

Vision Only Limitations

I have a MY-Vision only (no radar) and no FSD. A couple things are annoying and trying to figure out what is Vision only limitation and hopefully will be resolved with the latest release. 1. Max speed on AP is 80mph. Traveling on highways with a speed limit of 70, I set it at 78 mph. In my...

teslamotorsclub.com

"...every time the car is cresting a hill it will slow down/hesitate"

I would classify that as pure vision phantom brakes or unintentional brakes or undesirable brakes/deceleration

Of course you would.

 

[Tam]

Of course you would.

Another owner with pure vision thought that the AP was broken and by paying $10,000 FSD hopefully, that would solve the problem soon but that's mistaken.

I think Tesla will solve the phantom brakes but the question is how soon. An announcement of pure vision does not guarantee the cure in any timeline at all.

 

[rxlawdude]

Another owner with pure vision thought that the AP was broken and by paying $10,000 FSD hopefully, that would solve the problem soon but that's mistaken.

I think Tesla will solve the phantom brakes but the question is how soon. An announcement of pure vision does not guarantee the cure in any timeline at all.

Interestingly, with AP1 in our 2015 S, hill cresting was a reported problem by many, due to the radar/camera dissonance. Towards the end of our S ownership, we did not observe any anomalies on hills, but we don't typically have lots of places with blind peaks.

 

[Tam]

Another update on pure vision: Phantom Brakes are still bad that slows down from 75 to 35 MPH frequently.

Autopilot scares the crap out of me!

2021 M3 LR with no radar running software version 2021.32.21, and autopilot is all but worthless. Admittedly, on city streets with lots of traffic, where it was probably calibrated in California busy rush hour traffic and where there is lots of sensory input, it does pretty well. But leave the...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[finman100]

so...one car then.

 

[SalisburySam]

I am not sure I would call it phantom braking. Slowing down when cresting a hill is often a prudent thing to do since you can't always see what is lurking over the hill. I think this could be intentional behavior just to be safe.

Ohmygosh, please put down your tumbler of Kool-aid.

 

[diplomat33]

Ohmygosh, please put down your tumbler of Kool-aid.

Wait, are you actually accusing me of drinking the Tesla kool-aid? LOL. LOL. LOL.

 

[EVNow]

I got sudden deceleration when using fsd yesterday downhill on a road I drive almost daily. With AP this never happened.

Will be trying just AP today to see if it repeats. If it does, we can then chalk it up to some map anomaly or vision issue ?

 

[Tam]

I got sudden deceleration when using fsd yesterday downhill on a road I drive almost daily. With AP this never happened.

Will be trying just AP today to see if it repeats. If it does, we can then chalk it up to some map anomaly or vision issue ?

Does that depend on which module your car is using for that particular hill: City Streets or Highways? Current 2018 Tesla cars still have radar and although pure vision FSD beta does not use RADAR in its City Streets module, it's still using it for Highways Module (Single Stack won't come until at least version 11).

 

[EVNow]

Does that depend on which module your car is using for that particular hill: City Streets or Highways? Current 2018 Tesla cars still have radar and although pure vision FSD beta does not use RADAR in its City Streets module, it's still using it for Highways Module (Single Stack won't come until at least version 11).

This is on a city street. So, I don't think AP will use radar.

 

[Tam]

I am now pure vision with my 2018 Model 3 and it still has some catching up to get parity with the older non-pure vision.

City streets make a lot of mistakes which is what I expected of a brand new beta firmware so that is not a surprise for me there (It read the one-way sign and went in the wrong direction, went straight by entering right/left turn lane only...)

I just took a long drive on highways and phantom brakes are more frequent than the older non-pure vision.

It's now very sensitive to adjacent cars/trucks moving toward my car even though they still stay within their own lanes: It predicts those cars must have tried to go astray and would cross into my lane so my car would harshly brake. It scared me because those same scenarios never resulted in a harsh brake before. It didn't help when I was driving 70mph in the rain today either as my car was sliding as if it's on ice but not that bad!

Its GPS speed limit coding got messed up and it behaved like an MCAS from Boeing. The speed was 65mph and was correctly posted on the instrument cluster speed icon then suddenly, the instrument cluster icon would reduce that speed to 45, I manually adjusted it back to 65, then it automatically and rapidly adjusted itself downward to 55, I then immediately dialed up the speed back to 65, then it fought back and reduced the instrument cluster speed icon to 35... It's a fight between human and the machine and luckily I won this time.

Overall, $10,000 is a lot of money so I want it and I like it not because it makes mistakes but because I am a born beta tester and I want to participate in its development in real-time.

On the other hand, if you are a typical consumer and don't want additional stress, don't volunteer for it.

 

[Tam]

No biggie. I can deal with it but others might not be too pleased:

 

[Tam]

I haven't driven with FSD beta 10.3 just yet because of reports of severe unintended deceleration/phantom brakes:

Wiki - MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

Looks like even original beta testers are rolling back to production version... Just temporarily or accidentally...

teslamotorsclub.com

My older FSD beta 10.2 did not reduce phantom brakes/slowdowns compared with the radar version prior to this. It makes frequent decelerations even if it's very small like from 45 slowing down to 42 in the cities. Previously, the set speed limit was pretty obeyed: 45 means 45 and not 42.

Fortunately, Tesla has issued FSD beta 10.3 and called the phantom brakes "false slowdowns" in its release notes.

That means Tesla is not denying that it's still a problem in pure vision and it's good news that Tesla has been working on it.