Enhanced Summon coming (Elon tweet 6 Apr, 2019)

[N.Y.R.]

Parlour trick feature that has only damaged the reputation of Tesla for hardcore fans and will simply piss off other drivers in parking lots. No thanks.

 

[Daniel in SD]

It still stopped for cross traffic in plenty of time and completely safely. So I am not concerned about that.

It did have a 100% success rate! haha. Unfortunately the sample size was small. Not sure what the human accident rate is in parking lots but I'm guessing it's on the order of one per thousands of hours. If I was with a human driver who did what the car did, showed no sign of seeing a car coming until it was directly in front them, I would be concerned!

 

[DrDabbles]

It's not going to be a "finished product".

Great, then Tesla shouldn't recognize any of the FSD revenue from it. But this isn't a "first version". Remember. They've promised this would be out any time now since 2016. So they've had a minimum of three years to be working on this.

If it's actually this bad when it's eventually released, then I foresee Tesla being in an awful lot of trouble as people file lawsuits because their car hit something, or didn't stop before someone hit it, etc. It's going to be dangerous and it's going to cause major frustration, which is the opposite of what Tesla needs right now.

They should focus on delivering amazing EVs, and leave the party tricks for R&D. Don't make them headlining features, because this isn't going to work well until FSD is solved.

 

[jebinc]

Honestly, looks pretty good to me. This is pretty much what I expect Enhanced Summon to be. It satisfies the description on the website, "car will find you anywhere in the parking lot. really".

@diplomat33 - We had this discussion yesterday, and I thought we agreed what a "Reasonable person's" expectations should be for "flawless" release; that being what is advertised on the FSD ordering page - functioning from a parking spot to the owner's cell phone - safety and per parking lot driving norms/laws. Clearly, what is shown and discussed in the video is not that as the demo shows the car driving on the wrong side of the road - and the tester even states it's not following parking lot driving norms. Yet today, you now say what you said above. Completely baffling to me. SPD, perhaps?

 

[diplomat33]

Great, then Tesla shouldn't recognize any of the FSD revenue from it. But this isn't a "first version". Remember. They've promised this would be out any time now since 2016. So they've had a minimum of three years to be working on this.

Did we get a previous version of Enhanced Summon on our cars that I don't know about? No. So this is a "first version" in terms of what owners will actually get in their cars.

@diplomat33 - We had this discussion yesterday, ad thought we agreed what expectations should be for "Flawless" release; that being what is advertised on the FSD ordering page - functioning from a parking lot to the owner's cell phone, safety and per parking lot driving norms. Clearly, what is shown and discussed in the video is not that as the demo ha the car driving on the wrong side of the road and the tester even states it's not following parking lot driving norms. Yet today, you now say what you said above. Completely baffling to me. SPD, perhaps?

Maybe I am confused. My bad. I think we agreed that ES should match what is advertised on the FSD page, yes. And I think you said that following parking lot norms was implied in the definition. I am not sure if it is implied or not. Obviously, I want ES to follow parking lot norms. But based on this video, it does not look like it will. Unless, Tesla surprises us and is able to get ES to follow parking lot norms between now and the wide release. Perhaps, I am just setting my expectations really low to avoid being too disappointed. But I am expecting and somewhat ok with ES not following all parking lot norms in the first release to the public. But clearly, a lot of you do expect ES to follow all parking lot norms in the first release. I am afraid you might be disappointed in ES then. I hope I am wrong.

 

[jebinc]

Did we get a previous version of Enhanced Summon on our cars that I don't know about? No. So this is a "first version" in terms of what owners will actually get in their cars.



Maybe I am confused. My bad. I think we agreed that ES should match what is advertised on the FSD page, yes. And I think you said that following parking lot norms was implied in the definition. I am not sure if it is implied or not. Obviously, I want ES to follow parking lot norms. But based on this video, it does not look like it will. Unless, Tesla surprises us and is able to get ES to follow parking lot norms between now and the wide release. Perhaps, I am just setting my expectations really low to avoid being too disappointed. But I am expecting and somewhat ok with ES not following all parking lot norms in the first release to the public. But clearly, a lot of you do expect ES to follow all parking lot norms in the first release. I am afraid you might be disappointed in ES then. I hope I am wrong.

Could be me that misunderstood yesterday; no harm, no foul. In any case, using the "Reasonable person" standard, and based on what you said, you would have less expectations than a "Reasonable person". Others here have way more than a "Reasonable Person". I believe my expectation level rests at or near the "Reasonable Person" standard when it comes to Enhanced Summon release expectations.

 

[diplomat33]

Could be me that misunderstood yesterday; no harm, no foul. In any case, using the "Reasonable person" standard, you would have less expectations than a "Reasonable person". Others have way more than a "Reasonable Person". I believe my expectation level rests at or near the "Reasonable Person" standard for Enhanced Summon release expectations.

No problem.

In any case, we will all find out soon enough when ES actually goes wide. When that happens we will see what Tesla actually does push out to the public and we can all make up our minds whether we are happy with the first release of ES or not.

 

[jebinc]

No problem.

In any case, we will all find out soon enough when ES actually goes wide. When that happens we will see what Tesla actually does push out to the public and we can all make up our minds whether we are happy with the first release of ES or not.

Yes, time will tell - and the population's (including investor's) reactions will reign supreme. I'm not sure "soon" is an assured thing, however. Could be delayed again.

 

[Compton]

Going against the grain of the Whining Central, I like it. Slow but good progress and already looking promising.

 

[willow_hiller]

Could be me that misunderstood yesterday; no harm, no foul. In any case, using the "Reasonable person" standard, and based on what you said, you would have less expectations than a "Reasonable person". Others here have way more than a "Reasonable Person". I believe my expectation level rests at or near the "Reasonable Person" standard when it comes to Enhanced Summon release expectations.

To be fair, I would say that most Tesla owners' definition of "reasonable" would differ from that of the average consumer. And we expect a lot more from our cars than the average person (hard to believe people still put up with map update DVDs for e.g.).

 

[willow_hiller]

Sorry, she lost her remaining credibility with the "imminent refresh" videos.

I just went back to Reddit to look for the comments on the video, and it has since been removed.

I guess the Reddit mods agree with you!

 

[Daniel in SD]

To be fair, I would say that most Tesla owners' definition of "reasonable" would differ from that of the average consumer. And we expect a lot more from our cars than the average person (hard to believe people still put up with map update DVDs for e.g.).

Well, according to a AAA survey, 40% of consumers believe that self-driving cars exist and are being sold. I'm guessing that "Smart Summon" as seen in these videos would not meet their expectations. Haha.
AAA Research Shows Many Adults Think Fully Self-Driving Cars Exist | Digital Trends
I've in fact had someone asking about my Tesla be surprised when I told him you have to pay attention while using Autopilot. I think "reasonable" people's expectations are actually higher than Tesla owners.

 

[Octo]

Well, according to a AAA survey, 40% of consumers believe that self-driving cars exist and are being sold. I'm guessing that "Smart Summon" as seen in these videos would not meet their expectations. Haha.
AAA Research Shows Many Adults Think Fully Self-Driving Cars Exist | Digital Trends
I've in fact had someone asking about my Tesla be surprised when I told him you have to pay attention while using Autopilot. I think "reasonable" people's expectations are actually higher than Tesla owners.

I don’t think this is surprising. Tesla’s headline marketing describes Tesla cars als fully self driving going back to 2016. So if you aren’t a Tesla customer but you just get a glance at what Tesla markets and you read headlines about Elon Musk talking about robotaxis then why wouldn’t you guess that Tesla cars are self driving? Tesla’s been selling Full Self Driving for a loooooooong time.

I mean, one of the reasons why I personally criticize Tesla’s autonomy products so vehemently (some accuse me of “hating”) is because I was very surprised about the difference between Tesla’s marketing and reality. I didn’t follow Tesla’s efforts in that space until this summer when I wanted a new EV and the Model 3 was the first Tesla that I considered.

So here I was in June 2019, taking my first test drive, my very first time in a Tesla vehicle, and in 1 minute I realized that the autonomy features are total BS. I mean, the thing thought the vehicle next to me was spinning around like a vinyl record at 45 rpm and the next vehicle up was morphing shapes randomly. And these jokers want to sell THAT as FSD?!

Elon, GTFO. You need a MobileMe moment if you think you are even 1% of a Steve Jobs caliber.

 

[Burrito]

Every time I see this thread on the first page I chuckle at the title and start date

 

[299792458]

I don’t think this is surprising. Tesla’s headline marketing describes Tesla cars als fully self driving going back to 2016. So if you aren’t a Tesla customer but you just get a glance at what Tesla markets and you read headlines about Elon Musk talking about robotaxis then why wouldn’t you guess that Tesla cars are self driving? Tesla’s been selling Full Self Driving for a loooooooong time.

I mean, one of the reasons why I personally criticize Tesla’s autonomy products so vehemently (some accuse me of “hating”) is because I was very surprised about the difference between Tesla’s marketing and reality. I didn’t follow Tesla’s efforts in that space until this summer when I wanted a new EV and the Model 3 was the first Tesla that I considered.

So here I was in June 2019, taking my first test drive, my very first time in a Tesla vehicle, and in 1 minute I realized that the autonomy features are total BS. I mean, the thing thought the vehicle next to me was spinning around like a vinyl record at 45 rpm and the next vehicle up was morphing shapes randomly. And these jokers want to sell THAT as FSD?!

Elon, GTFO. You need a MobileMe moment if you think you are even 1% of a Steve Jobs caliber.

I'm not at all worried about how they are currently displaying the orientation of the vehicles. It's obvious they currently only show a few different orientations (and as the information hits different thresholds they toggle the display without any smoothing filter). if you've seen any of the videos showing developer level overlays (YouTube is your friend) you will realize they are doing very, very well with object recognition, classification, and relative positioning with vector (direction and velocity) estimates. This is impressive. AND it is running in real time, with dramatic improvements coming with HW3 capabilities. How they currently display an icon on the screen right now (front, left, right, back) is irrelevant to their overall progress. If you think that the limited things Tesla decides to show you on your screen represents what is being processed, you're quite wrong.

 

[Octo]

I'm not at all worried about how they are currently displaying the orientation of the vehicles. It's obvious they currently only show a few different orientations (and as the information hits different thresholds they toggle the display without any smoothing filter). if you've seen any of the videos showing developer level overlays (YouTube is your friend) you will realize they are doing very, very well with object recognition, classification, and relative positioning with vector (direction and velocity) estimates. This is impressive. AND it is running in real time, with dramatic improvements coming with HW3 capabilities. How they currently display an icon on the screen right now (front, left, right, back) is irrelevant to their overall progress. If you think that the limited things Tesla decides to show you on your screen represents what is being processed, you're quite wrong.

Then it’s the most bizarre decision to present a crappy “world” that the car sees to the driver.

Also, I take any videos with a grain of salt.

Fact is, what’s currently being shown on the display is terrible. I just drove through a Kroger’s parking lot and my HW3 P3 showed a totally wrong representation what was going on. Cars popping in and out of existence, rotating vehicles, pedestrians teleporting randomly, bicycles moving across the screen.

Why oh why is this so horrid if it allegedly sees the real world under the hood? What’s the logic behind displaying it wrong if the FSD computer can see it right?

Just release the good stuff already, Tesla, if you indeed have the capability. It can’t be worse than what’s being shipped now.

 

[jebinc]

Every time I see this thread on the first page I chuckle at the title and start date

Well, I suspect you will be chuckling then crying for a long time.

 

[dgatwood]

Why oh why is this so horrid if it allegedly sees the real world under the hood? What’s the logic behind displaying it wrong if the FSD computer can see it right?

Simple. The media computer only has so much CPU power to render all the UI, and it is already struggling just to render simple web pages as fast as Netscape Navigator 2.0 on a 1992-era Mac IIsi. And you want to add 3D rendering to that?

 

[DrDabbles]

Why oh why is this so horrid if it allegedly sees the real world under the hood? What’s the logic behind displaying it wrong if the FSD computer can see it right?

It probably comes down to the fact that the classification system doesn't produce a direction output for the objects it classifies, and that data needs to be interpreted from another system. Possibly a system that requires motion to produce that output.

 

[jebinc]

It probably comes down to the fact that the classification system doesn't produce a direction output for the objects it classifies, and that data needs to be interpreted from another system. Possibly a system that requires motion to produce that output.

Would also explain why cars “dance” when not moving, and render correctly while at speed.