Calling this a precursor to FSD is insulting. This is drunk driving at best.
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Enhanced Summon, where are you?
- Thread starter dckiwi
- Start date
It might look insulting, but they have solved a lot of stuff, like avoiding curbs which can be hard. I will look terrible in the start and take months, or even years to improve.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
If there is a book coming out about Tesla (no, not the hit piece by short sellers) the first thing I want to read is what happened behind the scenes around Summon.
My sense is that the Summon team is a small isolated team that is not working with rest of the AP team - because they thought they can quickly cobble something together and release. We'll know in a couple of weeks when EAP owners get v10 - and we can see if Summon is integrated with Stop sign detection.
They are the main team, this is their attempt to solve many of the corner cases that will need to be solved for urban self driving.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I'm obviously reading tea leaves - but Summon team is mostly procedural code devs. They are using NN - but are not tied to City NOA. Recently there may have been some tasks that got implemented in NN because of summon (curb, grass ?), but I think for the most part it is a separate team. The reason they are not tied to city NOA is because Tesla thought they can quickly finish and release summon and didn't want to take dependency on City NOA and get delayed.
Remember the guy who left a couple of months back was the tech lead for "summon team".
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Why not ? It is just going at 3 mph - the car can stop almost instantly anytime.
Yesterday I was trying to figure this out in a local parking lot - most people seem to drive around 10 mph, with very slow being 5 mph.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Because the car has to be able to see everything with the cameras which Tesla has not demonstrated that they can do. We already know that the ultrasonics are insufficient to avoid collisions. There are a million different things to hit in a parking lot. It will be fascinating to see what things people manage to hit. I hope that TeslaCam is running while using Enhanced Summon!
EVNow
Well-Known Member
At low speed ? I don't think we "know" that. The car has never failed to warn me of nearby objects when I park.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Is that a large enough sample size? Plenty of people have hit stuff using regular Summon and Autopark. And plenty of people have aborted Summon and Autopark to avoid hitting things. I think that will be more difficult to do with Enhanced Summon and there will be more exposure because people will be using it for longer distances.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I'd say the sample size over a year (lets say 4 parking on avg per day, some ~ 1k) is not bad. I'd also say with some 500k cars on the road, we are looking at 500 Million parkings a year. We should expect some collisions even with six 9s (which is 1 per million).
ps : Is the fear with odd shaped objects not being caught by sonar / radar ?
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’m wondering how Tesla will implement collision detection. I imagine when it fails to see something, it’s going to be persistent about continuing. Fortunately the owner will be monitoring it carefully.
If I trusted the ultrasonic distance measurement, I would have scraped or broken my lower bumper on low curbs and parking end stops many times already. The problem appears to be distinguishing between bushes beyond the curb and the curb itself, and the end stop. I assume it uses the strongest return, and it seems to sometimes pick the longer distance.
But that may be a minor problem for Summon - probably it will be like Autopark and be super conservative on that front so risk of bumper destruction is minimal.
More of a concern is the stuff it just doesn’t see for whatever reason. It’ll be interesting to see all the edge cases - should be a good window into what the vision is capable of.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yes, and objects beside the vehicle and above the bumpers where they are relying on only vision.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
How Waymo is teaching self-driving cars to deal with the chaos of parking lots
Waymo relies on heavily marked up maps. I want to see this type of article for what Tesla is really doing with Summon.
Waymo relies on heavily marked up maps. I want to see this type of article for what Tesla is really doing with Summon.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I think it highlights how difficult Tesla's approach is. Tesla is trying to do something with just vision that other companies use lidar and HD maps to accomplish. I think we should cut Tesla some slack.
jebinc
Well-Known Member
I believe the “angst” people (customers, perspective customers, investors, AND employees) are feeling/expressing has more to do with regular disappointments driven by communications that end up being inaccurate (substance and timing) - much more so than what Tesla is trying to achieve through pioneering efforts. “It’s tough to schedule an invention” as they say for good reason. Musk needs to learn that “less is more,” re communicating hype, unless he’s fairly certain about something happening in a specific timeframe. YMMV.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
That's fine in on itself, but have they ever heard about managing expectations?
Obviously, Musk missed that class when he dropped out of college to become a self-made billionaire.
Well, my experience seeing enhanced summon is that the system picks a path based on the google maps terrain view and then attempts to follow that. So far few videos show the app screen during enhanced summon. My example here is on a circular driveway. Car was on the street parked in between the two entrances to the circular driveway and asked to come to the main driveway. The human way to do this would have been to back up 30 ft and turn in to the driveway. The system chose to go forward, swing into the circular drive, connect with the main drive and stop there. This path was clearly shown on the app's screen and the car followed it.
Where are you getting this? It's widely accepted in the industry that ultrasonics are suitable to prevent collisions at low speeds. (~5-10mph)
I'm excited for enhanced summon, although I think its a gimmick with nearly no practical usability, especially when it first launches.
I have many concerns for it.... crashing into objects is not one of them
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