Is there anyway you could post a link to your Tesla article again? I must have missed it.
Seriously, please either go away or provide links to your prof that Tesla uses rare earth metals in their engine or anything else.
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ETCgreen anti-EV FUD
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
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- Energy Environment Policy
Is there anyway you could post a link to your Tesla article again? I must have missed it.
Seriously, please either go away or provide links to your prof that Tesla uses rare earth metals in their engine or anything else.
Ouch - Scott Stevenson's comment from last Aug 29 seems to explain pretty well how etcgreen manages to get people riled up.
:biggrin:Hey, that tongue looks really angry, stop it!
As others have stated: References please.
Again, need references.
No one is going to believe you unless you post some references. Saying the same thing over and over again is well.... insane.
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Was he saying that I was angry? I was just perplexed. Also "rare earth metals" and necessarily rare, but whatever. That guy was like the Greg Blencoe of biofuels. Did he have a real name?
shark2k
Member
It's OK doug, you don't need to be angry about it :tongue: lol, sorry couldn't help it.
-Shark2k
Steve Frazer is the CEO and I assume the one who is authorizing or posting things under etcgreen.
From here:
Investor Relations - Emerging Technology Corporation, Green Division
So they also rant against rare earth metals in solar while the same time pushing solar? I'm a little confused about their business model.
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At least you don't have to oil or condition the interior leather, just take the top off and let the exhaust waft over the interior. However if you are using fly oil for your biodisel then you may have the aroma of french fries or fish.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Buzz kill, we were having so much fun. I guess now he can go back to counting on his fingers for a living, and getting it wrong
I'd like to put to rest some of the "rare earth" nonsense he has been spouting. Here's an image linked from his site where he criticizes EV's:
Okay, let's go through that:
Okay, the point is, most of the materials he brings up are components of ALL cars. It has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with whether it's an EV. So this cannot be used as a basis to criticize them - all the same things apply to his favorite biodiesel powered cars.
Also listing how many rare earths are used is completely foolish, never mind that he claims more than are in the Periodic Table. The question is one of mass consumed to make the vehicle. And while some hybrid EVs may use very large quantities for their motors and batteries, Tesla does not. And Tesla avoids the rare earths involved in making the ICE, like those found in biodiesel powered cars.
In summary, Mr. ETC's analysis is both superficial and internally inconsistent. Tesla doesn't have any more potential issues with rare earths than any other manufacturer, and likely has a lot less. If some rare earths do eventually become supply limited, then alternative sources will be developed. And if they still become too expensive or hard to get then companies will find alternative ways of making things. Like using old fashioned jeweler's rouge (iron oxide) to polish glass, for example.
Okay, let's go through that:
- Diesel fuel additive - I'm not aware of any diesel-based hybrid cars on the market.
- UV Cut Glass - Cerium. Right, like we don't find that on every other type of car, including biodiesel cars.
- Glass and Mirrors Polishing Powder - this one is strange. First of all modern glass sheets aren't polished, they're made as float glass and are inherently smooth. Secondly it's commonplace to use cerium oxide as a polishing compound for optics, but alternatives have been in use for centuries and still work; simple economics will decide which is used. Plus all other cars need windows and mirrors. Silliness.
- LCD Screen - okay, try and sell a biodiesel or any other type of modern car without one.
- Component Sensors - uh, sure, ICE vehicles (including biodiesels) have sensors. Lots of them.
- Hybrid Electric Motor and Generator - well, Telsa doesn't use rare earths in their motors, and they don't use a rare-earth laden ICE either.
- Headlight glass - are your biodiesel cars not going to have headlights?
- 25+ electric motors throughout vehicle - yeah, just like every other car. Electric seats, electric windows, etc.
- Catalytic converter - Tesla doesn't use them.
- Hybrid NiMH Battery - Tesla doesn't use them.
Okay, the point is, most of the materials he brings up are components of ALL cars. It has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with whether it's an EV. So this cannot be used as a basis to criticize them - all the same things apply to his favorite biodiesel powered cars.
Also listing how many rare earths are used is completely foolish, never mind that he claims more than are in the Periodic Table. The question is one of mass consumed to make the vehicle. And while some hybrid EVs may use very large quantities for their motors and batteries, Tesla does not. And Tesla avoids the rare earths involved in making the ICE, like those found in biodiesel powered cars.
In summary, Mr. ETC's analysis is both superficial and internally inconsistent. Tesla doesn't have any more potential issues with rare earths than any other manufacturer, and likely has a lot less. If some rare earths do eventually become supply limited, then alternative sources will be developed. And if they still become too expensive or hard to get then companies will find alternative ways of making things. Like using old fashioned jeweler's rouge (iron oxide) to polish glass, for example.
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SByer
'08 #383
Well, that was fun. Ok, not really. He tripped my troll sensor pretty early on, and while the troll bashing was fun, he was still just a troll - a bad one at that, and a purposeful (not accidental) one.
The guy clearly wasn't that smart, and couldn't play the debate game worth a darn (like that whole evading the question thing wasn't a dead giveaway).
I think we have to thank the moderators for clearing the links so that this site didn't become part of his SEO strategy.
The guy clearly wasn't that smart, and couldn't play the debate game worth a darn (like that whole evading the question thing wasn't a dead giveaway).
I think we have to thank the moderators for clearing the links so that this site didn't become part of his SEO strategy.
Adm
Active Member
Peugeot actually is introducing diesel hybrid cars called Hybrid4 technology: http://www.peugeot.com/en/products/cars/3008hybrid4.aspx
Which could of course run on biodiesel. Not that it has anything to do with EVs.
As a parting shot I got this PM.
etcgreen said:
Apparently posting the same link to the same unsubstantiated opinion 10 times a page is education now.
I'm not one for ad hominem attacks but, umm, the man's an idiot.
P.s. I love it when we get a troll like this because for all the disagreements over falcon doors or quick charge ports, there is a far more important common cause which is to stop the FUD from ETCgreen and his like.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
This thread is also a good source for anyone looking into ETCgreen and their claims, hopefully it will show up in searches and expose him for what he is.
A friend of mine coined a term that fits this guy perfectly: DK-squared. "Doesn't Know that he Doesn't Know".
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
It's pretty clear everyone here fell for his trolling. Once you identify a troll it is best to ignore him, esp. if he doesn't have much credibility/visibility in the first place (so few people will take his postings as "fact"). This thread has given him plenty of responses and he has successfully link baited people. If you look at his posting history, it's pretty clear it's either filled with link baiting (making you visit his website) or completely unsubstantiated arguments (no actual calculation or examples to support his claims, no links to actual evidence from reputable sources, frequently appealing to his own supposed credentials to make an argument rather than giving actual evidence).
rolosrevenge
Dr. EVS
I still wanted him to respond to IEEE Spectrums article about how you would need more arable land than currently exists in the US to support a second generation biofuel transportation economy.
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