I don't think EVs are even close to taking over 100% of transportation. However, most 2 car families where one person has a short commute each day could easily look into an EV either now or in a few years where there are even more affordable choices than the Leaf.
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ETCgreen anti-EV FUD
- Thread starter Robert.Boston
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- Energy Environment Policy
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I've seen nothing credible to suggest biofuels, including algae, will scale or be efficient. Breakthroughs to make them so are not guaranteed.
Certainly EV's don't solve everything by far, but biofuels have a long way to go and may never get there if other technologies prove superior. I still say the most cost effective solution for long distance trucking is to replace much of it with heavy rail.
Just getting ready to post that as well
Blogging on the Tesla website - Emerging Technology Corporation, Green Division
I e-mailed them this morning asking if the etcgreen was indeed them or someone else. Guess that post was his response or maybe he was working on this all along. Notice he did add 'heavy metal' to his comments about use of rare earth metals and didn't acknowledge that Tesla doesn't use rare earth metals.
"The responses to the various blog posts on the Tesla website have been less than informed about rare earth and heavy metal usage - even per the usage in the Tesla vehicles (particularly concerned about the individual who is claiming that solar modules do not use rare earths)"
Blogging on the Tesla website - Emerging Technology Corporation, Green Division
I e-mailed them this morning asking if the etcgreen was indeed them or someone else. Guess that post was his response or maybe he was working on this all along. Notice he did add 'heavy metal' to his comments about use of rare earth metals and didn't acknowledge that Tesla doesn't use rare earth metals.
"The responses to the various blog posts on the Tesla website have been less than informed about rare earth and heavy metal usage - even per the usage in the Tesla vehicles (particularly concerned about the individual who is claiming that solar modules do not use rare earths)"
Doug, your posts seem almost angry. I will have one my engineers call our friends at Tesla and provide you a direct connection if you would like to actually learn about the rare earth minerals and heavy metals that the Tesla uses today.
The costs of EV's will drop a bit in the coming years, but over the long term we expect the price to actually increase - substantially.
This was an interesting experience. Here is our last entry to this blog thread.
The costs of EV's will drop a bit in the coming years, but over the long term we expect the price to actually increase - substantially.
This was an interesting experience. Here is our last entry to this blog thread.
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Too bad you used inaccurate information to mislead buyers about the realities of EV's and their construction. You've been provided with data and studies that you continue to ignore. Quite simply you seem to have no idea what materials are actually needed to build EV's or lithium batteries. I'm not sure you know what materials are used in solar panels either. Here is a list of all the rare earth elements: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare_earth_element
Please list each one that is used in a Tesla EV, and also list each one that is used in most solar panels. Here is a link to help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell#Materials
Drees,
Not sure why your posts seem so angry. We are all trying to reduce emissions and our dependency on petroleum. I will share that your posts do not reflect a working knowledge of biofuels. To answer your specific question as to the cost of our 2nd generation feedstock sourced biodiesel - <$1 gallon to the pumps + tax with no government subsidies.
If you would like to better understand the use of rare earth and heavy metal minerals used by the Tesla, I will have one of my engineers contact our friends at Tesla to provide you a direct source.
This was an interesting experience. Here is our last entry to this blog thread - we are to busy actually solving the problems to spend time blogging.
Not sure why your posts seem so angry. We are all trying to reduce emissions and our dependency on petroleum. I will share that your posts do not reflect a working knowledge of biofuels. To answer your specific question as to the cost of our 2nd generation feedstock sourced biodiesel - <$1 gallon to the pumps + tax with no government subsidies.
If you would like to better understand the use of rare earth and heavy metal minerals used by the Tesla, I will have one of my engineers contact our friends at Tesla to provide you a direct source.
This was an interesting experience. Here is our last entry to this blog thread - we are to busy actually solving the problems to spend time blogging.
Thin film PV cells use rare earths. But they are not very efficient when compared to the far more common silicon cells which is why they are hardly used. There are researchers using rare earth coatings on silicon cells for further efficiency but these are not in production. There are also plenty of developments in organic cells which you aren't taking into account.
Mr ETCgreen needs to stop using selective data. Also needs to open up his website to peer review.
By the way, we're not a blog, we're a forum. We're not the Tesla website either - careful you don't get sued.
Mr ETCgreen needs to stop using selective data. Also needs to open up his website to peer review.
By the way, we're not a blog, we're a forum. We're not the Tesla website either - careful you don't get sued.
Actually there is a long list - we run several ourselves today in our operations. Since you are on the Tesla website, here is a vehicle that pretty much "blows the doors off of the Tesla sportster" that runs on B100.
Need to get back to solving the problems - rather than just blogging.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Not sure why you keep starting your replies with this phrase, are you a bot? Since you claim to know so much, please do as I requested and list all the rare earths and heavy metal minerals used by Tesla. Provide the applications and the relative quantities. Of course you won't since you really have no idea.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
More goodies from ETCgreen: Biking worse than driving cars. Really. http://etcgreen.com/general/does-cycling-save-petroleum
Tesla will have delivered over 2,000 Tesla Roadsters before this car is even delivered. Is it even going to be sold in the US? Also, it says 0-60 in less than 4 seconds so unless it is 3.6 seconds or quicker, the Roadster sport can match it. Even the Model S will start deliveries before this car comes out. Yes it's fast, looks cool and runs on B100 but how about a car with a production of over a few hundred per year?
Also, what car under $100,000 is allowed to use B100 under warranty and where can I find a B100 filling station in Texas?
Also, what car under $100,000 is allowed to use B100 under warranty and where can I find a B100 filling station in Texas?
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I saw that also. So it takes more energy to move a 20 lb bike + 160 lb rider at 10 mph, than a 3000-4000 lb automobile + 160 lb driver, at 60 mph? That takes some creative math!
GSP
Damn I don't feel bad about driving to my mailbox any longer.
Maybe I need a diesel powered hover-round.
Steve, you still need to put that square on the biofuels map for us.
Also, please tell us how the radical new wind turbine design is going. We're always interested in more efficient ways to fill EVs.
Looks like you got owned over here too.
Also, please tell us how the radical new wind turbine design is going. We're always interested in more efficient ways to fill EVs.
Looks like you got owned over here too.
etcgreen,
Not sure why your posts seem to condescending. I will share that your posts do not reflect a working knowledge of anything in particular. I would like to know why at a cost <$1/gallon to the pumps without taxes or government subsides why your biofuels have not yet reached the market in significant quantity?
I would like to better understand how you plan to address the inherent inefficiencies of growing sufficient quantities of biofuels to offset petroleum consumption without using an extraordinary amount of farm land. Please have one of your engineers post a response to the forum.
I think we can all agree that we need alternatives to petroleum. Where we disagree is that you continue to downplay the disadvantages of biofuels and while making up disadvantages of EVs. And you continue to do it in a condescending manner, ignoring facts that are inconvenient to your business.
I fully acknowledge that biofuels will play a niche role where it's energy density makes current and future batteries a non-starter.
For example: The Biofuel Grind | Do the Math
Please stop calling this forum a blog - the two are quite different.
Thank you! :tongue:
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
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