Wiki Everything you wanted to know about Intelligent Octopus But Were Afraid To Ask

Why write this post?
A lot of people are starting to get interested in IO. I don't think Octopus do a very good job of spelling out the benefits in their website. They have some FAQs, but the same questions keep coming up over and over on the forums.

What is it?
In a nutshell, IO is a split tariff that gives you a cheap off-peak rate for charging your EV and other electrical items in the household, including home batteries.

Isn’t that the same as Octopus Go or Go Faster?
The principle is the same, but in exchange for some benefits which we’ll explain, you allow Octopus to control the timing of your EV charge, so they can choose low carbon intensity and/or cheap wholesale priced time slots.

So I’m not in control of my charge? I don’t like the sound of that!
Well yes…and no. You’re in control of how much to charge and when you want the car to be ready, just like you would be normally. Within those parameters, you’re allowing Octopus to control which half-hour slots the car chooses to get to that target % charge. And you can always override IO if you want to “bump charge” through the day.

OK, but what are the benefits you mentioned for this trade off?
First of all, you get a larger guaranteed off-peak window for using household appliances and charging home batteries, etc. It’s six hours between 23:30-05:30. Go, for example, is a fixed 4 hour window.
In addition, when IO schedules your EV charging slots it sometimes creates schedules that fall outside of the fixed, six hour window. If that happens your EV charging and all your household use in these extra-slots is also charged at off-peak rates.
I have frequently had schedules give me seven or more hours of off-peak rates. On one occasion, I had a total of ten hours of off-peak rates.

Am I eligible?
You need a smart meter and a compatible car and/or charger. Since you’re reading this here, I assume you’ve got or are thinking of getting a Tesla. IO works with the Tesla API to create the charging schedules. The advantage of this is that IO will work with any* home charger. If you have a charger with smart features, you need to disable them so that the charger acts as a dumb switch. IO will control everything via Tesla’s API to start and stop your charging.
*Even your granny charger - but you need to tell IO what the max throughput is when you go through setup so that it can work out your schedules properly.

Some of this sounds too good to be true.
Phantom drain caused by having smart charging enabled in the Octopus app has been fixed as of 30th August 2022. One small side effect appears to be that schedules sometimes take longer to appear in the app after plugging in.

Further questions (to be updated in the main thread body once the edit timer on this post expires)

I have two EVs, can I charge the other while on IO?
Not with IO scheduling the charging, but you can charge any other car in the fixed 23:30-05:30 off peak window or at any other time at peak prices.

What are the rates etc?
Octopus do a decent job of explaining the peak and off-peak rates along with contracts etc. Head over to their pages to discover that.

I asked for a target % of x, but I got less than x.
There are two or three reasons for this.

The first, most common reason, is that Tesla reports battery % differently depending on where you look. The API (that IO uses) reports the gross battery %. This is generally fixed but can fluctuate very slightly. The Tesla app shows usable %. Apps like Teslamate and Teslafi can display both. Quite often, there is a delta of 2-3% which may be down to battery temp or other factors. This usable % will often be recovered as the battery warms up during a drive.

Some users have reported charging % being way off, perhaps 10% or more. This could be down to an error in the onboarding process. Some of the charger database entries incorrectly assume the charger you are onboarding is the 11kW version, without actually saying so in the charger description. The Andersen A2 was an early example of this. If you suspect this may be the case, the easiest thing to do is go through the on-boarding again and choose "Generic 7.4kW charger". It won't affect your functionality on IO in any way.

Lastly, it has to be mentioned that occasionally IO just craps out. It may be down to a comms error, a server error at Octopus' end, or just reasons. IO is a beta product and it's wise to expect one or two quirks from time to time

 

[petit_bateau]

That is completely wrong.

In January 2022 I selected Tesla Model 3 and Zappi (7kWh) when signing up to IO. The test charge completed and I used it without any issues for 11 months.
....I deleted this combination on the day I purchased a new car.

In December 2022 I selected Tesla Model Y and Zappi (7kWh) when re-connecting the new car to IO. The test charge completed and I have used it without any issues ever since.

Nothing 'in principle' or not allowed, no pretending - simple to set up, easy to use, reliable.

I think we are talking at cross purposes.

The Octopus link I gave was the one on their website that allows you to confirm eligibility to apply for (and subsequently receive) the IO tariff. In that link there is no Zappi option. None at all. Instead one has to use either "3-pin socket" or "generic charger" to navigate successfully through the sign up process.

Subsequently (once accepted) there may (or may not) now be a Zappi option in the actual 'real' set up process. Or maybe there was once a Zappi option but it has since been removed. But in any case that is not the stage I am at. I'm still stuck at the sign up stage, not the set up stage.

(OK, I now know how to navigate through the IO sign up process if I had an EV, but they now won't let me do it as 'just' a storage owner. But that is a somewhat different issue.)

 

[Drew57]

I think we are talking at cross purposes.

The Octopus link I gave was the one on their website that allows you to confirm eligibility to apply for (and subsequently receive) the IO tariff. In that link there is no Zappi option. None at all. Instead one has to use either "3-pin socket" or "generic charger" to navigate successfully through the sign up process.

Oh, that's strange - I recall that when I signed up and also when I reconnected, the 'Myenergi' option was there and this gave the Zappi options. 'Generic charger' 7kWh would also work as IO just needs dumb device settings and the Zappi 'Fast' mode is the one to use anyway.

Maybe if/when you acquire an EV it's worth trying this.

 

[petit_bateau]

Oh, that's strange - I recall that when I signed up and also when I reconnected, the 'Myenergi' option was there and this gave the Zappi options. 'Generic charger' 7kWh would also work as IO just needs dumb device settings and the Zappi 'Fast' mode is the one to use anyway.

Maybe if/when you acquire an EV it's worth trying this.

Thanks.

It is interesting that Octopus thought it (IO) used to work directly with myenergi's Zappi, but doesn't now (at least not in the full fat version).

A (B)EV is definitely on the cards, it is just a matter of working through the prioritisation list between my GF and I. At the moment we are still prioritising household stuff - and have been for years - as for us that is where the best RoI is in energy/carbon terms for the (upfront) financial investments. We're getting there, but for now bangernomics rules on the driveway/parking.

Very disappointing however to discover Octopus practicing apartheid against non-EV owners. Our 30kWh stationary battery is larger than about half a dozen token compliance PHEVs combined. I really would like to get to the bottom of that story.

(I think it also discrminates against people without driveways. At my house (i.e. street parking only) I could have a BEV and a charger (located in an inaccessible place that couldn't reach the street) and only then could I get their IO tariff. Only truly rich people need apply !

 

[Simavon]

I think we are talking at cross purposes.

The Octopus link I gave was the one on their website that allows you to confirm eligibility to apply for (and subsequently receive) the IO tariff. In that link there is no Zappi option. None at all. Instead one has to use either "3-pin socket" or "generic charger" to navigate successfully through the sign up process.

Subsequently (once accepted) there may (or may not) now be a Zappi option in the actual 'real' set up process. Or maybe there was once a Zappi option but it has since been removed. But in any case that is not the stage I am at. I'm still stuck at the sign up stage, not the set up stage.

(OK, I now know how to navigate through the IO sign up process if I had an EV, but they now won't let me do it as 'just' a storage owner. But that is a somewhat different issue.)

 

[petit_bateau]

View attachment 947498


View attachment 947499

Ha, great. I can now get the same. I wonder if I was being brain dead yesterday (always a possibility) or whether they've just added it. Thank you.

 

[MrBadger]

Very disappointing however to discover Octopus practicing apartheid against non-EV owners. Our 30kWh stationary battery is larger than about half a dozen token compliance PHEVs combined. I really would like to get to the bottom of that story.

I don’t think it’s an EV specific limitation but a benefit given to devices that they can control the charge regime of, ie certain cars and other devices. So the discount is a benefit of letting them supply your high power device when it suits them (and the environment) and not when you want to use large amounts of energy potentially with little regard to when is best.

 

[petit_bateau]

I don’t think it’s an EV specific limitation but a benefit given to devices that they can control the charge regime of, ie certain cars and other devices. So the discount is a benefit of letting them supply your high power device when it suits them (and the environment) and not when you want to use large amounts of energy potentially with little regard to when is best.

I've looked into that and it doesn't seem to be the case. The IO tariff is marginally cheaper (7.5p import) than the Go rate (9.5p import) so they are prcing the Octopus-control at only 2p/kWh worth of marginal price. In contrast non-EV owners are havng to pay 20p/kWh for the cheapest import tariff during fixed period slots whereas EV owners are getting the same fixed period slot at 9.5p/kWh, i.e. a huge price differential for essentially the same product. What is more we (my GF) could quite happily pull in 30kWh a night (to release back out to a heat pump) so that is just as high power a device in supply terms as many cars will be pulling in. And of course if Octopus were to put some effort in then they could integrate with SolarEdge storage or Tesla storage or myenergi controllers (etc) just as much as with EV-charger controllers (or the corresponding vehicles).

So ..... this is a genuine puzzle to me as to 'why'. Is it because there is a ringfenced taxpayer funding pot for such trial schemes that is causing the limitation. Or is there some other reason ?

At this rate my advice to my GF is likely to be to 'buy' an EV from a friend for a few days, go through the vehicle re-registration process, get signed up for the "Octopus Go" tariff, then sell the vehicle back to the friend. Or buy a trashed Nissan Leaf and leave it parked in the street catching leaves until its tyres rot. Or order a Tesla then endlessly postpone actual purchase. Or some such stupidity so as to work around the barrier that seems to be in place here.

---------------------------------------

Anyway here are the rates that I have extracted for my GF's postcode in Dorset, to make the comparisons easier:


EV-specific rates
============
Intelligent Octopus

Octopus Go

Non-EV rates
=========
Octopus Flux (typical for solar + battery)

Cosy Octopus (heat pump owners eligible)

Octopus Outgoing
- uses the Agile import tariff, see below (so not really capable of comparison)
Octopus Agile
- uses half hourly market rates for import so occasional zero priced deals (don't think I have ever seen negative domestic pricing even if sparkspread were to go negative) (but in any case not really capable of comparison)

 

[browellm]

Apropos of nothing, I'm amazed as a non-EV owner the Flux numbers don't work out as better deal for you than IO, at least for the summer months. How big is your solar array?

 

[petit_bateau]

Apropos of nothing, I'm amazed as a non-EV owner the Flux numbers don't work out as better deal for you than IO, at least for the summer months. How big is your solar array?

At the GF's property it is a c.7kW solar array, however the total property is actually a 7-bed property so that is only 1kW per bedroom. And since the oil boiler was recently removed and replaced by an ASHP (which is doing fine) the property is really underpowered in self-generation terms, and thus typically a net importer.

My rule of thumb is 1kW solar per bedroom if dual fuel (gas/elec or oil/elec) and 2kW solar per bedrom if single fuel (elec only). This is assuming typical UK occupancy rates, which happens to be the case at my GF's.

You can see from these random (ie last few weeks) of battery SoC % stripcharts that even in mid Summer there is some import going on reasonably often. You can also see that the battery is sized fairly large so as to minimise export within reason. Thus it tends to be worth focussing more on reducing the import tariff than on maximising the export tariff. Yet we both have moral/ethical preferences that limit the tariff offers we are prepared to dine on, hence our both being with GoodEnergy at the moment - indeed I am only looking at the Octopus situation because GoodEnergy don't yet do a ToU tariff.

Clearly even more import will be required in Winter and when a BEV becomes full time resident at the GF's.

(my property is much more a UK average, but again that is similarly disadvantaged because it is on-street parking so would find it difficult to obtain either an Octopus IO tariff or an Octopus Go tariff).

To put even more granularity into the picture here is the GF's for one of those weeks above. As you can see half-hourly tariffs would not be attractive to her as she is typically spilling to grid in late afternoon, but buying from grid in early daytime or late evening. A fixed tariff (in terms of fixed cheap hours and fixed expensive hours) is of much more interest. (At least until we get to the holy grail of auto-adaptive omnicient agent-based controllers.) It would be really nice if she owned half a windfarm to fill those bleak winter months as well.

As you can see the battery is sized to mop up pretty much all self-generation.

Therefore, all I need is a decent ethical ToU tariff that doesn't practice apartheid against non-EV owners. Not much to ask for !

 

[MrBadger]

I've looked into that and it doesn't seem to be the case. The IO tariff is marginally cheaper (7.5p import) than the Go rate (9.5p import) so they are prcing the Octopus-control at only 2p/kWh worth of marginal price. In contrast non-EV owners are havng to pay 20p/kWh for the cheapest import tariff during fixed period slots whereas EV owners are getting the same fixed period slot at 9.5p/kWh,

Anyone can get Go. You can benefit from the off peak rate irrespective of owning an EV etc. Intelligent is limited to those who have a high power device that Octopus can control, car, battery etc and for that you get a couple of pence price reduction and a couple more guaranteed fixed hours of off peak

Sounds like you should be looking to signing up to Go albeit with shorter off peak windows than IO or Cosy.

 

[kriscii]

I am having some issues where IO decided to charge outside of the overnight window and I am being charged the day rate. In the cases I have noticed this was when it didn't use all of the overnight window and it could have been completed during the night. So although they have agreed to refund for the ones I spotted, I've not done an extensive review of charging time vs tariff charged so want to get this part right.

They have blamed car schedule (I never used the car schedule) and also the charger (Zappi) schedule, which was set to off but was previously setup for Go hours from my previous tarrif so even with a glitch wouldn't have caused an out of hours charge. I had the IO schedule to be ready for 9am but the charges were after this time in any case. I've now set the ready time to 5.30 to tie in with the overnight hours but not spotted anything other wise

I was told that because I set IO to charge to 100% and use the car settings to limit the charge this would cause the issue. Again I can't see this being the case as in the cases I saw the car was set to 60-80%.

Is anyone else limiting the charge on the car rather than the app? It seems easier when I am getting out of the car to set it up for the next day.

 

[browellm]

I was told that because I set IO to charge to 100% and use the car settings to limit the charge this would cause the issue. Again I can't see this being the case as in the cases I saw the car was set to 60-80%.

You are artificially gimping the schedule IO is generating, but complaining about unexpected results. Set Intelligent to deliver what you need and don't limit from the car. You're lucky they refunded you.

 

[petit_bateau]

Anyone can get Go. You can benefit from the off peak rate irrespective of owning an EV etc. Intelligent is limited to those who have a high power device that Octopus can control, car, battery etc and for that you get a couple of pence price reduction and a couple more guaranteed fixed hours of off peak

Sounds like you should be looking to signing up to Go albeit with shorter off peak windows than IO or Cosy.

I'm sorry but that is not the case. I wish it were the case. Maybe Go used to be available to non-EV owners, but no longer. The Octopus sales team in the call centre even put the phone down on me after they confirmed that Octopus website is correct is correct on this point.

Why do you think otherwise ? Am I missing a loophole that can be helpful ? Or something else ?

 

[Simavon]

I'm sorry but that is not the case. I wish it were the case. Maybe Go used to be available to non-EV owners, but no longer. The Octopus sales team in the call centre even put the phone down on me after they confirmed that Octopus website is correct is correct on this point.

Why do you think otherwise ? Am I missing a loophole that can be helpful ? Or something else ?

View attachment 947584

That may be the case. But we have never been asked to show any evidence that we have an EV

 

[petit_bateau]

That may be the case. But we have never been asked to show any evidence that we have an EV

They are insisting on it now. The call centre confirmed this to me. Then they hung up after I insisted on speaking to the next level for further info. Hence my trying to figure this out.

(Has anyone had recent experience and is able to comment on this point ?)

 

[MrBadger]

I'm sorry but that is not the case. I wish it were the case. Maybe Go used to be available to non-EV owners, but no longer.

My bad. Never use to be the case and as above, never been asked to prove.

 

[xreyuk]

I've looked into that and it doesn't seem to be the case. The IO tariff is marginally cheaper (7.5p import) than the Go rate (9.5p import)..

Always makes me jealous seeing everyone else's standing charges, we're paying just over 60p per day here!

 

[Pete UK]

@petit_bateau

You need an EV to join those tarrif(s). End of story. Get one or Move on.

 

[kelvin 660]

Wow! I never realise that electricity priced fluctuated so much during the night to require such a complicated schedule!

 

[Simavon]

Wow! I never realise that electricity priced fluctuated so much during the night to require such a complicated schedule!

View attachment 947776

I’d think probably that’s a bug. Can’t tell though.

Here’s mine: