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not logical what you suggest.. If the car has an 110kw battery , the logical is that it is named P110+... Uneven numbers make no sense... And are not even cool ... Let's reserve those tacky numbers for tacky dinosaur muscle cars ....
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Why on Earth would they want to make a teeny-weeny 110kW battery when current battery is already at least 310kW ????
Go read Is kWh a good measure for battery capacity?
Warped one, that is a good thread.
Whaterver you call it an AWD 3.0 sec 300+ mile limited edition Model S would be great publicity and more free advertising for Tesla.
GSP
Will Tesla make a car that:
Is more expensive than the Roadster, going against the master plan.
Delays the Model X (which will be more popular in America)
Upsets the existing P85+ owners who would have waited.
Makes zero business sense right now. I really doubt this will happen until after Gen 3. The unsubstantiated rumors are getting crazy lately.
Is more expensive than the Roadster, going against the master plan.
Delays the Model X (which will be more popular in America)
Upsets the existing P85+ owners who would have waited.
Makes zero business sense right now. I really doubt this will happen until after Gen 3. The unsubstantiated rumors are getting crazy lately.
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Good points but my opinion is that it does make good business sense. I own an 85P+ and will not be upset if they come out with what would amount to an AMG model S. This would be the highest margin car for TM at a time when they could use the extra cash for ramping up for the 'X'. The skateboards are the same (S and X) and it would be a good idea to test your new drivetrain on your preexisting offering. Minimal change in assembly line.
It should not delay the production of the 'X' at all. They are not mutually exclusive products.
As long as different merits are assumed and used in strategic comparison, I'm afraid that discussion will go nowhere
- AWD Model S will cut into Model X sale numbers: true if Tesla is sales limited, false if Tesla is production limited
- AWD Model S will yield less revenue than higher-priced Model X: may be, but gross margin is the winner here.
- AWD earns cash before Model X enters production: As already pointed out, Tesla is all about getting to Model E and not losing money on the way there. Indecisive.
- 110kWh Model S: doesn't make sense to sell more cells per car as long as production is cell supply limited
I want to add one point: A high priced, high gross margin, high capacity, high performance, AWD variant of Model S will have its teething troubles. OTOH the target audience might be more in the "I bought a super car" group than in the "I help Tesla as an early adopter" group. They might consume more than their fair share of customer care with any problems of the new model, draining resources (e.g. management attention) away from other critical things.
- AWD Model S will cut into Model X sale numbers: true if Tesla is sales limited, false if Tesla is production limited
- AWD Model S will yield less revenue than higher-priced Model X: may be, but gross margin is the winner here.
- AWD earns cash before Model X enters production: As already pointed out, Tesla is all about getting to Model E and not losing money on the way there. Indecisive.
- 110kWh Model S: doesn't make sense to sell more cells per car as long as production is cell supply limited
I want to add one point: A high priced, high gross margin, high capacity, high performance, AWD variant of Model S will have its teething troubles. OTOH the target audience might be more in the "I bought a super car" group than in the "I help Tesla as an early adopter" group. They might consume more than their fair share of customer care with any problems of the new model, draining resources (e.g. management attention) away from other critical things.
Gizmotoy
Active Member
I should tell that to everyone at work. "Hey, my stuff was close. Modern day numbers are all rounded, anyway!" :biggrin:
I have no idea if this rumor will turn out to be true but a few reasons why it might:
Elon Musk will no doubt drive a Tesla Model S, the fact the he might want a faster, longer range AWD Tesla Model S could go a long way to make this happen. I believe that is why we have the Performance Plus version, for example.
Testing the AWD before they sell and mass produce the Model X seems like a good plan. Instead of shouldering all those costs, create a limited edition Model S, and let your customers pay to be beta testers (some of the Model S Signature owners may recognize this plan).
Create positive news and buzz in the car trade magazines and web sites. Elon hates paying for marketing and advertising. Create a Tesla supercar and let others do that for you.
Elon Musk will no doubt drive a Tesla Model S, the fact the he might want a faster, longer range AWD Tesla Model S could go a long way to make this happen. I believe that is why we have the Performance Plus version, for example.
Testing the AWD before they sell and mass produce the Model X seems like a good plan. Instead of shouldering all those costs, create a limited edition Model S, and let your customers pay to be beta testers (some of the Model S Signature owners may recognize this plan).
Create positive news and buzz in the car trade magazines and web sites. Elon hates paying for marketing and advertising. Create a Tesla supercar and let others do that for you.
Fedderman
Original: 2012 Model S (85); Current: 2024 Model S
I was putting off reading this thread but this posting of the 2014 VIN decoding is a gem. Comparing to current VIN code, the main difference is in digits 7 and 8. Notably, the new code no longer has any code for supercharging options nor single vs dual chargers. (It was revealed all cars had the supercharging option installed even if not in the VIN code, but perhaps single chargers will be phased out in future due to battery size?) And more surprising, no code for "Performance" vs "Standard." Maybe this means the AWD option will be the new "P"?
Gizmotoy
Active Member
Or they just don't want to include those things in the VIN any longer. Many people change their orders after confirmation, which means updating the VIN. It also doesn't make much sense to have Supercharging and dual chargers in the VIN because those can be added later.
Estimated performance and torque curves for a Tesla S AWD. Assumes Tesla will use the motor and transaxle they build for the Toyota RAV4.
Source Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): The 3 Tesla Secrets - Seeking Alpha
Source Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA): The 3 Tesla Secrets - Seeking Alpha
Bugeater
Member
Whether or not they already have changed battery chemistry, to make an MS P110+SS could be done without changing battery form factor by simply changing the battery chemistry. Then it wouldn't even take batteries away from the current MS line. If they were going to do that for the MX anyway they could test 2 major changes before the MX actually comes out. By testing tech in variants of the MS, instead of taking engineering resources away from MX development, they may actually be able to save development time!
Note: Ha! I'm finally not a JUNIOR member of this forum any more!!! I've grown up. :biggrin:
Note: Ha! I'm finally not a JUNIOR member of this forum any more!!! I've grown up. :biggrin:
An interesting thing to consider is the R&D costs of AWD. Will the engineer's that are designing the AWD for the X also be working on the S? My hope would be that the S and X share many of the same components (same generation of components), but you never know. If they are targeting release of an AWD S before the X, then we might get into a weird situation where the first X/S AWD users are out of sync with the 'latest' developments similar to the A and B battery packs or any of the other numerous small updates that they've done to the S lately.
imo, an AWD S would be very expensive, not sure how many people would pay $120k+ for it. I would want them to not make the purchasing decision difficult for people, at first, and limit the AWD option to the X. You want AWD? Get an X. Once they've proven that the AWD system is mass produceable and reliable then bring it over to the S. In 1-2 years, they'll have a battle hardened AWD system, and people will have seen what the X can do, and it'll be just in time for the first S 3 year trade-ins to start coming in.
But hey, if they want to do it earlier, that's cool, too.
imo, an AWD S would be very expensive, not sure how many people would pay $120k+ for it. I would want them to not make the purchasing decision difficult for people, at first, and limit the AWD option to the X. You want AWD? Get an X. Once they've proven that the AWD system is mass produceable and reliable then bring it over to the S. In 1-2 years, they'll have a battle hardened AWD system, and people will have seen what the X can do, and it'll be just in time for the first S 3 year trade-ins to start coming in.
But hey, if they want to do it earlier, that's cool, too.
Repeat after me: S K A T E B O A R D D E S I G N, Skateboard Design.
MX skateboard is the same as MS skateboard. Differences are in particular suspension links, dampers and other minor details that are already different between MS vartiants.
MS AWD demans only another MS configuration variation, marketing and supply chain. Skateboard is already AWD capable.
Just because they use the same S K A T E B O A R D D E S I G N doesn't mean that you couldn't get into situations where different suspensiOn links, dampers, and other minor details prohibit the improvements seen in the other model. The X has more room to play with certain things. I wasn't really speaking to the fact that each component has to fit in the X or the S interchangeably, but more so that if the design and engineering isn't yet complete for the X or the S, you'll get into scenarios where early owners are going to be sad when they fine tune the system, much like the A and B battery packs.
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