-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Experiences with Water-less Washes.
- Thread starter kevincwelch
- Start date
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
That's a good question and warrants further investigation.
I believe they are some sort of polymer, like silicone or acrylic, and not a distillate but can't say for certain. I'll do a little digging.
I've used Optimum No Rinse on all my cars (Black ones, Red ones, White ones) for years with great success - meaning no swirls or scratches. The key, and I think this is very important, is using the two bucket approach with grit guards and making sure your washing mitt or whatever your are using is rinsed in the rinse bucket thoroughly after a few swipes. Another approach is to use just the one bucket with ten or so clean MF cloths - using each cloth for just a few swipes folding over in fours. I believe its the dirt in the washing medium that causes the swirls. I also lightly spay a mixture of the ONR solution on the section or panel I'm cleaning using a garden sprayer. After I've cleaned the area I blot with a large waffle towel. I finish using a MF cloth with a light spray of Adam's Quick Detail. I can clean my Tesla this way in about forty minutes including cleaning the windows inside and out. I do this twice a week.
If a waterless wash or retailer does contain petroleum distillates, I wonder how many years of exposure through repeated applications would be necessary to have an impact on paint film.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Ok, it would seem there are no petroleum distillates in Optimum No Rinse. Should be perfectly safe for paint film.
MSDS (lists no known carcinogens):
optimum no rinse MSDS CAS no.? - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
Product page, notes that their products are water based;
Optimum Polymer Technologies
"Our water-based products reduce thousands of gallons of petroleum distillates from going into the air to help protect the ozone layer."
And if you're still concerned, Xpel sells their own line of waterless wash products that would clearly be safe for their film: XPEL Rinse-Free Car Wash System
Last edited:
CHG-ON
Still in love after all these miles
I have used Griot's Speed Shine and Waterless Wash for years and have been very happy with them. I've been happy with just about all their products. I use Speed Shine when it's just dusty and smudged. I use the WW if the car has gotten wet and/or has more dirt on it. I live on the Central CA coast, so I have it EASY compared to those in other climates. Here's my routine:
1. I always VERY lightly dust the car with a California Duster. I was very skeptical at first, but I find, with a very light touch, short strokes and continual cleaning of the duster, that I have no scratches at all. I barely touch the surface and it seems to work. I vigorously spin the duster between my hands to spin off anything on it every few strokes. Takes 5 seconds. Then, I actually discovered a very simple and cool trick to keeping the duster super clean. You know those orthopedic dog beds that have the foam pads with the bumps all over them to make them more comfortable? Well I have one on my garage wall with the bumps facing out (since the idiot dog decided to eat the covers off over and over again!). It's about 3ft square. After dusting about 1/4 of the car, depending on the amount of debris, I just go over to the foam thing, rub the duster on it for a second and it pulls all the particulates off the duster. Discovered it by accident. Works like a charm. I always start on the cleanest part of the car, typically the top, and work my way to the dirtiest, typically the rear. This helps to reduce the risk of rubbing coarse particulates across any part of the car unnecessarily. I must stress using a very light touch. Any pressure runs the risk of allowing the particulates to dig into the paint. I have no experience doing this with a car exposed to winter salt, which is very abrasive. I'd be nervous...
2. Once all dusted, which takes all of 3-5 minutes max, I mist the section of car I am going to do and allow it to sit for a minute to soften anything that did not come off with the duster, like bug poop. I also pre moisten, but not too heavily, a very plush MF cloth. Too much and it mats the long MF fibres, which I don't want because I want them to lift the dirt up and away from the paint. Depending on how dirty the car is, I could use up to 10 cloths to do the car. Usually 3-5 does it. If I can see dirt on the moist cloth, it's time to flip to another side. I very lightly wipe the cloth across the focus area to remove the schmutz and then follow with a dry buffing MF cloth in my other hand. I shake the moistened cloth vigorously after each stroke and flip over to the next quarter of the folded cloth for the next wipe or section, depending on how much dirt there is. Again, starting at the top and working down and back. Once done, I take a fresh MF cloth and lightly buff everything.
I prefer the Speed Shine because it seems to leave much less of a residual film than the WW, which can get a little (very slightly, actually) hazy after a few days. But the WW does a much better job if the car has been heavily soiled. One other trick I use is to run over the car with a MF cloth just lightly saturated with distilled water, squeezing all the excess that I can out, before the final buff. Helps with any product residue, especially the WW, which is quite viscous (?) and slippery, which is good.
I have an '87 Acura that I have almost exclusively washed this way from the beginning. I really only do a bucket wash once in the spring, after our brutal 60 deg winters, as I prep for my annual clay, polish, seal ritual. And I have only had to do a real polish twice in almost 8 years, more due to other things causing minor scratches, not the wash process. The only other time I do a bucket wash is when it is really dirty for whatever reason. But it is rare.
But now I am going to try some new products, based on my detailer's recommendation. I am changing to Ultima Waterless Wash (got it from CarPro-Us.com). I had my MS fully polished and sealed with CQuartz Finest (looks amazing!) immediately upon delivery and I have used up my stock of the Griot's products. So I thought I would give it a try. It might be a week or so before I try it and I will report back. I'll also be trying a few other new decontamination products, sealer "recharge" and a bunch of other stuff that I should stop spending money on and will report out on what I find.
It's funny, the real reason I went to waterless wasn't to save water. I actually love washing the car with the bucket, suds and all. Very therapeutic. But I HATE drying it! And I was just lucky that I got such great results. I hope for the same for my Miss Tess.
Oh, and no, I'm not obsessed at all. Just deranged!
1. I always VERY lightly dust the car with a California Duster. I was very skeptical at first, but I find, with a very light touch, short strokes and continual cleaning of the duster, that I have no scratches at all. I barely touch the surface and it seems to work. I vigorously spin the duster between my hands to spin off anything on it every few strokes. Takes 5 seconds. Then, I actually discovered a very simple and cool trick to keeping the duster super clean. You know those orthopedic dog beds that have the foam pads with the bumps all over them to make them more comfortable? Well I have one on my garage wall with the bumps facing out (since the idiot dog decided to eat the covers off over and over again!). It's about 3ft square. After dusting about 1/4 of the car, depending on the amount of debris, I just go over to the foam thing, rub the duster on it for a second and it pulls all the particulates off the duster. Discovered it by accident. Works like a charm. I always start on the cleanest part of the car, typically the top, and work my way to the dirtiest, typically the rear. This helps to reduce the risk of rubbing coarse particulates across any part of the car unnecessarily. I must stress using a very light touch. Any pressure runs the risk of allowing the particulates to dig into the paint. I have no experience doing this with a car exposed to winter salt, which is very abrasive. I'd be nervous...
2. Once all dusted, which takes all of 3-5 minutes max, I mist the section of car I am going to do and allow it to sit for a minute to soften anything that did not come off with the duster, like bug poop. I also pre moisten, but not too heavily, a very plush MF cloth. Too much and it mats the long MF fibres, which I don't want because I want them to lift the dirt up and away from the paint. Depending on how dirty the car is, I could use up to 10 cloths to do the car. Usually 3-5 does it. If I can see dirt on the moist cloth, it's time to flip to another side. I very lightly wipe the cloth across the focus area to remove the schmutz and then follow with a dry buffing MF cloth in my other hand. I shake the moistened cloth vigorously after each stroke and flip over to the next quarter of the folded cloth for the next wipe or section, depending on how much dirt there is. Again, starting at the top and working down and back. Once done, I take a fresh MF cloth and lightly buff everything.
I prefer the Speed Shine because it seems to leave much less of a residual film than the WW, which can get a little (very slightly, actually) hazy after a few days. But the WW does a much better job if the car has been heavily soiled. One other trick I use is to run over the car with a MF cloth just lightly saturated with distilled water, squeezing all the excess that I can out, before the final buff. Helps with any product residue, especially the WW, which is quite viscous (?) and slippery, which is good.
I have an '87 Acura that I have almost exclusively washed this way from the beginning. I really only do a bucket wash once in the spring, after our brutal 60 deg winters, as I prep for my annual clay, polish, seal ritual. And I have only had to do a real polish twice in almost 8 years, more due to other things causing minor scratches, not the wash process. The only other time I do a bucket wash is when it is really dirty for whatever reason. But it is rare.
But now I am going to try some new products, based on my detailer's recommendation. I am changing to Ultima Waterless Wash (got it from CarPro-Us.com). I had my MS fully polished and sealed with CQuartz Finest (looks amazing!) immediately upon delivery and I have used up my stock of the Griot's products. So I thought I would give it a try. It might be a week or so before I try it and I will report back. I'll also be trying a few other new decontamination products, sealer "recharge" and a bunch of other stuff that I should stop spending money on and will report out on what I find.
It's funny, the real reason I went to waterless wasn't to save water. I actually love washing the car with the bucket, suds and all. Very therapeutic. But I HATE drying it! And I was just lucky that I got such great results. I hope for the same for my Miss Tess.
Oh, and no, I'm not obsessed at all. Just deranged!
GoBlue88
Member
A polymer-based waterless wash is exactly what I use, which I get from the guy who did my nanocoating. I have CQuartz Finest on the car, and then once a week or so I use the polymer waterless wash (it actually uses a pint of water per wash). It's the same idea as described above - spray it on, use a towel to lightly wipe it off which takes most of the dirt with it onto the towel, then repeat with a clean towel and a harder wipe. Whole car takes me about 30 minutes. Car looks super shiny when done, I can do it in my garage as there is no dripping so I'm out of the sun, and it uses virtually no water. It's a nice system.
Resurrecting this old thread. Just tried Optimum No Rinse (ONR) Wash and Shine for the first time. My car has Xpel with OptiCoat Pro on top. I used a gallon of tap water, a half ounce of ONR, and 6 microfiber clothes. Easy as pie. Only took about 30 minutes and the car came out nice and shinny!
Amazon.com: Optimum (NR2010Q) No Rinse Wash Shine - 32 oz.: Automotive
Amazon.com: Optimum (NR2010Q) No Rinse Wash Shine - 32 oz.: Automotive
Sosius
a.k.a. Uptown Frunk
I have used Ecogreen Auto Clean's waterless products and really like them. Their shipping is very slow, so I ordered some Chemical Guys Eco-Smart via Amazon. It's cheaper and well-reviewed, but I have not used it yet. I'm not in an area with water restrictions, I just think it's easier to skip the hose and use the spray with microfiber cloths. Was unnerving the first time, but the results look good, at least so far!
Some good ones that I have tried...
Optimum No Rinse
Duragloss 931 Rinseless wash
Those are my go to rinseless washes for when the car is moderately dirty. I tend to me very generous with the water and make up 4 gallons.
For waterless washes, I've used the following:
Ultima Waterless Wash+ (this is great)
Blackfire waterless wash (another good one, but newer)
DP waterless wash (didn't like this as much)
I use 840 GSM MF towels to do the washing in these situations.
Optimum No Rinse
Duragloss 931 Rinseless wash
Those are my go to rinseless washes for when the car is moderately dirty. I tend to me very generous with the water and make up 4 gallons.
For waterless washes, I've used the following:
Ultima Waterless Wash+ (this is great)
Blackfire waterless wash (another good one, but newer)
DP waterless wash (didn't like this as much)
I use 840 GSM MF towels to do the washing in these situations.
Jool
Member
Optimum No Rinse has worked great for me on multiple vehicles. It's the only way I can properly clean a car thanks to the water restrictions here in southern California!
I have to say that Optimum No Rinse is a really slick piece of chemical engineering. It does exactly what it says it does, just follow the directions. And here is one of my all-time favorite YouTube videos, giving you the directions in the first 1 minute and 40 seconds, but keep watching until you see the end:
ONR and The Big Red Sponge - YouTube
It's really that easy and simple to do. (Yvan LaCroix does not waste a syllable or a gesture.) The Big Red Sponge is available from Opti-Coat.net. Optimum also offers the Opti-Mitt, another sponge applicator. I prefer the Big Red Sponge. The Opti-Mitt is great on flat, horizontal surfaces, but it looses a lot of its ability to hold onto the ONR solution when washing a vertical surface.
The sponges are not necessary for washing, but they rinse easily and reduce the amount of really dirty microfiber laundry. Tesla Service uses only 16x16 inch micofiber towels for washing with ONR, yellow for the upper half of the body, and blue for the lower, dirtier half. Fold the towels in half along both axes so that you have 4 cleaning faces on each side of a towel. (Larger towels make it harder to keep track of where the clean faces are and harder to stabilize your folds.) As you move one face across a dirty panel, the leading edge will turn dark with dirt. By rotating your hand, you can lift the leading edge of the towel off the panel, so that the dirt is more evenly distributed across the width of the face. (YouTube has videos on how to rotate your hand as you move the towel through a cleaning stroke on each face.) The Tesla techs know how to do this well and fast, leaving no swirls when you get one of those great ONR service washes. IIRC, Tesla uses the one bucket wash method with a grit guard, using clean towels as needed.
I'm old and less coordinated than the Tesla techs, so I follow Yvan's method with the Big Red Sponge. I use 16x16 microfiber waffle-weave towels for drying. Wiping a clean surface is a lot easier and less dangerous than wiping a dirty one. TheRagCompany.com.
By the way, the techs know all four ONR dilutions and make them up at each Service Center:
1. Undiluted as a _really_ great tar remover. Apply directly to tar, let it stand briefly, wipe tar off with microfiber towel.
2. 1:8 as a detailing spray
3. 2 oz ONR into 1 gallon of water for a clay bar lubrication
4. 1 oz ONR to 2 gallons of water as a car wash solution
This is an Arthur C. Clarke moment: ONR is a technology advanced sufficiently to appear to be magic.
scoots
ONR and The Big Red Sponge - YouTube
It's really that easy and simple to do. (Yvan LaCroix does not waste a syllable or a gesture.) The Big Red Sponge is available from Opti-Coat.net. Optimum also offers the Opti-Mitt, another sponge applicator. I prefer the Big Red Sponge. The Opti-Mitt is great on flat, horizontal surfaces, but it looses a lot of its ability to hold onto the ONR solution when washing a vertical surface.
The sponges are not necessary for washing, but they rinse easily and reduce the amount of really dirty microfiber laundry. Tesla Service uses only 16x16 inch micofiber towels for washing with ONR, yellow for the upper half of the body, and blue for the lower, dirtier half. Fold the towels in half along both axes so that you have 4 cleaning faces on each side of a towel. (Larger towels make it harder to keep track of where the clean faces are and harder to stabilize your folds.) As you move one face across a dirty panel, the leading edge will turn dark with dirt. By rotating your hand, you can lift the leading edge of the towel off the panel, so that the dirt is more evenly distributed across the width of the face. (YouTube has videos on how to rotate your hand as you move the towel through a cleaning stroke on each face.) The Tesla techs know how to do this well and fast, leaving no swirls when you get one of those great ONR service washes. IIRC, Tesla uses the one bucket wash method with a grit guard, using clean towels as needed.
I'm old and less coordinated than the Tesla techs, so I follow Yvan's method with the Big Red Sponge. I use 16x16 microfiber waffle-weave towels for drying. Wiping a clean surface is a lot easier and less dangerous than wiping a dirty one. TheRagCompany.com.
By the way, the techs know all four ONR dilutions and make them up at each Service Center:
1. Undiluted as a _really_ great tar remover. Apply directly to tar, let it stand briefly, wipe tar off with microfiber towel.
2. 1:8 as a detailing spray
3. 2 oz ONR into 1 gallon of water for a clay bar lubrication
4. 1 oz ONR to 2 gallons of water as a car wash solution
This is an Arthur C. Clarke moment: ONR is a technology advanced sufficiently to appear to be magic.
scoots
Nappe
Member
I am also sensitive to odours, and I found the SansZo waterless wash doesn't bother me. It is a natural, biodegradable product with vegetable-based emulsifiers, so no toxic stuff. It has a strong lemony smell, like that of car wax, and I find it pleasant. I typically wash in my garage to let the solution do its job without evaporating in the sun in the summer or freezing in the winter.
I have also tried their bug wash, which is also non-toxic and biodegradable, and highly effective, but I do not recommend using it in a closed space. The smell is mildly unpleasant and nausea-inducing if you are not outdoors with a breeze.
Chemical guys clear-seal detailer. Designed for use on PPF and paint surfaces. Smells like heaven, I think it is laden with coconut. Works fantastic as a waterless wash.
Tried something new and confirmed with Optimum support that it works (theoretically). I added 1 oz of Optimum Instant Detailer (OID) concentrate to the standard Optimum No Rinse (ONR) dilution (1 oz per gallon water). Wash car as normal, but now when you wipe dry, you're all "done" (rather than have to wash with ONR, wipe dry, then detail with OID). Hard to say if it makes much difference, but theoretically it'll have more gloss and you save a step.
Nappe
Member
After reading this thread, particularly @3s-a-charm's photos, I gave it a try and, the better part of a year later, I am hooked on the waterless car wash. I don't go waterless every time, but I find it fast, convenient, and satisfying work. The best thing, though, is that I keep some microfibre cloths and spray bottles in the trunk compartment and we can shine up the car anytime the mood strikes, like this supercharger stop from last month:
You don't have to dry between steps - can wipe with ONRWW, spray the wet surface with OID, then dry - also confirmed with the the Optimum folks.
3s-a-charm
Active Member
One of my favorite parts of doing a waterless wash is that the door jams don't get wet and you can put your windows down right away without water streaks forming on them because the water inside the window seal. Time to go wash my car...
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
It would not have occurred to me to use ONR 8:1 as an interim detailer (between washes every 2 weeks). Great idea - thanks - especially since I just bought a gallon of the stuff.
The following may help some of youse in water-restricted areas: For $4, which includes 6 minutes of rinsing at a manual car wash and a gallon of distilled water, all you need for the exterior is less than an hour, good microfiber towels, Prima Hydrowash, ONR blue (unless you don't have Opti-Coat Pro or similar, in which case ONR green), and a commercial foamer in the 2-gallon size similar to these: Commercial Sprayers - Professional Sprayers.
A half-ounce of Prima Hydrowash into the gallon of distilled in the foamer gets you started and there will be enough to cover the car completely in foam. Wait 3 minutes, then rinse with either a 2-bucket approach or use a manual car wash wand (obliquely) to fill a canvas bucket (waterproofed with 303 Fabric Guard) with 2.5-3 gallons of water and then rinse the car from end to end.
After moving the car out of the car wash bay and to a detailing/drying area, use the 1-bucket approach (canvas bucket) with a grit guard and an ounce of ONR, with microfiber towels folded as above (straight lines only - wipe and dry with separate cloths one panel at a time) and all will be well.
Every other week or as needed I'll treat the wood with lemon oil, the glass with GlassWow diluted 16:1, the black plastic/rubber with 303 Aerospace, and the leather with Bick 4. Bick 1 should not be necessary.
And there you have it - all of this fits into one canvas bucket, including the other canvas bucket, and the foamer next to it - doesn't even fill up a new shrunk frunk. Best 2 hours/month plus the interim wood/leather/glass/black surfaces time that I spend. This coming from a guy who hadn't washed a car in 30 years but who fortunately got some good tutelage from a master detailer.
Naturally can't find the link for the sprayer that I actually have. 2-gallon commercial foamer from Sanitary Supply or some such. The difference being in the nozzle and general construction. A pesticide sprayer this ain't.
The following may help some of youse in water-restricted areas: For $4, which includes 6 minutes of rinsing at a manual car wash and a gallon of distilled water, all you need for the exterior is less than an hour, good microfiber towels, Prima Hydrowash, ONR blue (unless you don't have Opti-Coat Pro or similar, in which case ONR green), and a commercial foamer in the 2-gallon size similar to these: Commercial Sprayers - Professional Sprayers.
A half-ounce of Prima Hydrowash into the gallon of distilled in the foamer gets you started and there will be enough to cover the car completely in foam. Wait 3 minutes, then rinse with either a 2-bucket approach or use a manual car wash wand (obliquely) to fill a canvas bucket (waterproofed with 303 Fabric Guard) with 2.5-3 gallons of water and then rinse the car from end to end.
After moving the car out of the car wash bay and to a detailing/drying area, use the 1-bucket approach (canvas bucket) with a grit guard and an ounce of ONR, with microfiber towels folded as above (straight lines only - wipe and dry with separate cloths one panel at a time) and all will be well.
Every other week or as needed I'll treat the wood with lemon oil, the glass with GlassWow diluted 16:1, the black plastic/rubber with 303 Aerospace, and the leather with Bick 4. Bick 1 should not be necessary.
And there you have it - all of this fits into one canvas bucket, including the other canvas bucket, and the foamer next to it - doesn't even fill up a new shrunk frunk. Best 2 hours/month plus the interim wood/leather/glass/black surfaces time that I spend. This coming from a guy who hadn't washed a car in 30 years but who fortunately got some good tutelage from a master detailer.
Naturally can't find the link for the sprayer that I actually have. 2-gallon commercial foamer from Sanitary Supply or some such. The difference being in the nozzle and general construction. A pesticide sprayer this ain't.
Similar threads
