Facelift CPO (not Performance) vs. Performance CPO (no facelift)

[spy4007]

Currently on Tesla, these cars with about the same features are about equal price (within 5% -ish, there are exceptions and mileage is always a bit higher on the P-models).

Curious as to what folks think which CPO Teslas will hold value in future better: Facelift Tesla's (not Performance) or Performance (non facelift) Teslas?

This is part of my purchase decision.

Thank you. Apologies in advance if I am off in my quick analysis.

 

[Troy]

Here are some important release dates:

• AP1.0 19 Sep 2014
• Facelift 12 Apr 2016
• AP2.0 16 Oct 2016
• AP2.5 28 Jul 2017

Pre AP2.0 CPOs are not a good idea because in Q1 2019 Tesla will release a hardware upgrade from AP2.0 or AP2.5 to AP3.0. Cars that don't have the AP2.0 or AP2.5 hardware won't have a path to upgrade. The hardware upgrade consists of a new Autopilot computer that is 10x more powerful. This will be free for people who already paid for FSD. Here is a relevant link: Hardware 3.0 is coming next year with 10X processing power!

In addition, even if this was not in the works, the nosecone version of the Model S is considered old-fashioned.

 

[spy4007]

Thank you Troy. These are very good points and facts.

For simplicity, I am trying to keep the AP/FSD thing out of the query. Just looking at two cars that are fairly similarly priced. CPO facelift, AP1 V. CPO non-facelift Performance, AP1

 

[Troy]

I would skip both and buy a Model 3.

• See the range table here. Model S range numbers are over-advertised and Model 3 is under-advertised.
• You will most likely still get the $7,500 federal tax credits if you order now.
• Tesla will release Supercharger V3 soon. See this article. Elon talked about this a few times. Current Superchargers support 120 kW power. I would expect Supercharger V3 to support 180 kW (50% increase) because there is an EPA document that says the Model 3 can support up to 184 kW. Neither of the cars you are considering buying will support the increase. It is unclear whether current Model S/X cars will. My guess is they won't because the Model 3 battery has more powerful cooling than the S/X and the S/X might need to switch to a new pack design. See this article: Tesla Model 3 Battery Cooling Much-Improved ... Track Mode? I think that's why the Model 3 Performance has a track mode but the Model S does not.

 

[Camera-Cruiser]

Since you’re buying used, the price delta pretty much exists between both cars, and will probably keep on trending that way.

I would get the P myself. I have an S85 and have wanted a P85+ ever since I got one as a service loaner.

I just got a P3D to make up for that mistake.

 

[glide]

You won’t care about resale value with the P.

You won’t want to sell it.

I personally would not opt for a facelift 75D over a Performance 85D. No way.

 

[spy4007]

Since your buying used, the price delta is pretty much already there between both cars, and will probably keep on trending that way.

I would get the P myself. I have an S85 and have wanted a P85+ ever since I got one as a service loaner.

I Just go a P3D up for hat mistake.

Thank you. Won't get 3 for specific reasons. S is the one. Thx

 

[spy4007]

You won’t care about resale value with the P.

You won’t want to sell it.

Very cool perspective. Thank you.

 

[Sunshine State]

I wouldn’t buy a pre-facelift car. There were a huge number of updates to the refresh cars that are not visual. I was told by several Tesla service techs that most of the changes to the S cars happened during the refresh. A P85D or P90D is faster than an S90D but only if you are drag racing and most of the difference is off the line so all are quick cars. A P85 (no D) isn’t much of a performance upgrade and isn’t worth it if you can buy a refresh. Even a refresh S60 or S75 (identical cars just software) is a great car and looks like a brand new car if it’s in good shape plus probably has less wear and tear being newer.

 

[davidc18]

Go for the "P" and don't look back, except to see the big grin on your face in the rear view mirror.

 

[spy4007]

c

I wouldn’t buy a pre-facelift car. There were a huge number of updates to the refresh cars that are not visual. I was told by several Tesla service techs that most of the changes to the S cars happened during the refresh. A P85D or P90D is faster than an S90D but only if you are drag racing and most of the difference is off the line so all are quick cars. A P85 (no D) isn’t much of a performance upgrade and isn’t worth it if you can buy a refresh. Even a refresh S60 or S75 (identical cars just software) is a great car and looks like a brand new car if it’s in good shape plus probably has less wear and tear being newer.

A minority view here but makes sense. Thank you.

 

[JMatt]

I'm a proud recent purchaser of a pre-facelift P85D Ludicrous. To each their own, but I couldn't care 2 cents about the facelift. And I know you said it's not a factor, but my autopilot 1.0 is still 99% as good as version 9 with hardware 2.5.

 

[Sunshine State]

Nothing wrong with AP1, and in fact it’s bulletproof unlike the newer work in progress EAP. A refresh 2016 S gets you a car that looks current and modern, has pretty much all of the updates that are available with the exception of the work in progress AP, plus at a great price (by Tesla pricing standards). Unless you are actually doing dragstrip launches, with a preheated battery, in insane/L against another Tesla P**D you will not see much difference in a S90D vs a P90D, and I’ve got plenty of seat time. Everyone loves what they have until they sell it, until they build a better Tesla I’m sticking with what we have.

 

[spy4007]

I'm a proud recent purchaser of a pre-facelift P85D Ludicrous. To each their own, but I couldn't care 2 cents about the facelift. And I know you said it's not a factor, but my autopilot 1.0 is still 99% as good as version 9 with hardware 2.5.

Thank you.

 

[spy4007]

Nothing wrong with AP1, and in fact it’s bulletproof unlike the newer work in progress EAP. A refresh 2016 S gets you a car that looks current and modern, has pretty much all of the updates that are available with the exception of the work in progress AP, plus at a great price (by Tesla pricing standards). Unless you are actually doing dragstrip launches, with a preheated battery, in insane/L against another Tesla P**D you will not see much difference in a S90D vs a P90D, and I’ve got plenty of seat time. Everyone loves what they have until they sell it, until they build a better Tesla I’m sticking with what we have.

Thank you

 

[MC408]

Supply and demand will drive what holds its value better between refresh or P. I know there are a lot of P85Ds on the market right now and it’s driving the prices down. So the P isn’t adding a lot of value over nonP, rather the #s on the market and demand of who wants them.

I don’t track or watch the refresh, so i couldn’t tell you if it holds better or not.

If it were me, I’d take the residual value out of the equation and focus on what you want in your car.

Looks - if you like the refresh look, that much better, than it is an important factor for you.

Performance - if you drive aggressive and want to enjoy seeing what the car can do, then this is an important factor.

I personally value performance (speed, handling, ect), so that played a major role In why I wanted to P.

 

[spy4007]

Supply and demand will drive what holds its value better between refresh or P. I know there are a lot of P85Ds on the market right now and it’s driving the prices down. So the P isn’t adding a lot of value over nonP, rather the #s on the market and demand of who wants them.

I don’t track or watch the refresh, so i couldn’t tell you if it holds better or not.

If it were me, I’d take the residual value out of the equation and focus on what you want in your car.

Looks - if you like the refresh look, that much better, than it is an important factor for you.

Performance - if you drive aggressive and want to enjoy seeing what the car can do, then this is an important factor.

I personally value performance (speed, handling, ect), so that played a major role In why I wanted to P.

Thank you.

 

[MC408]

Curious what models you are trying to decide between.

I know P85Ds are probably your best bang for the buck right now on Tesla’s “CPO/used” car sales. Some dropping to low $50s

 

[selective]

Since you care about value, it boils down to whether the car can get upgraded/updated as you go down the road which is AutoPilot.

Whether you purchase a P(no face-lift) or a face lifted S, if it is AP1, you are going to lose value in the long run. Come 2019 summer and you will have a lot of lease returns with the refreshed nose cone ones and then AP2 Model S which will make it that much harder for the AP1's to get sold.

As mentioned, if the above are your only choices and both have AP1, get the P. You can find an aftermarket bumper that make it look close to the new nose cone one.

$0.02

 

[davidc18]

If you want the best suspension (my opinion) you need to look for a P85D with the "+" suspension.