Fair tug of war?

[Darmie]

so....they already chickened out lol.

Please if anyone knows if this is a go, please post here so to keep up with the results. I say they should do it anyway. Do it at the same location. Bring all the ford pencil pushers.

 

[Swampgator]

One other factor to consider is the location of the center of gravity over the drive wheels. Consider 2 identical rear wheel drive trucks on an incline, and assume the CG is 2 feet above the midpoint between the tires. The uphill truck is reacting more of its weight over the driven rear tires, while the downhill truck is reacting more of its weight over the passive front tires. Purely in terms of friction force, the uphill truck has the advantage due to greater vertical force at the drive tires. The uphill truck will of course need more torque to move the combined mass uphill, but neither truck had insufficient torque in this case.

That said, because the Cybertruck presumably has a lower CG than the Ford, it will benefit less from the incline, while the Ford would suffer more because the CG is not only higher but probably closer to the passive front wheels.

All that aside, I'd bet the Tesla was a good 1000 lb heavier, which would be the dominant friction term.
F = mu * m * g
mu = friction coefficient, which would be the same if tires were identical
g = gravity, the same value applies to everyone
m = mass... this is the heavy hitter, pun intended

Elon stated the Cybertruck has the same weight as the Ford F150 during his presentation.

 

[e-FTW]

Let’s run the numbers:

(I don’t see how they could have been the same weight)

 

[Daniel in SD]

I want to see the test with a 4WD F150 in low range. Also, they should use a 20 foot chain to remove the hitch height from the equation. Seems like we'll have to wait a few years to really know.

 

[brianman]

...

False. (Referring to the forum handle.)

 

[thegruf]

Easy enough to raise the hitch point using the adjustable suspension...

Yeah cool - line up the trailer hitch and rasie/lower the Cybrtrck suspension from your mobile (or even dare i say it buttons inside the tailgate for when your hands are covered in crud). Another USP to Tesla.

 

[jerry33]

Let’s run the numbers:

(I don’t see how they could have been the same weight)

Engine, transmission+skin = battery. Frame = exoskeleton. That's going to make it pretty close.

 

[Kiwiadventure]

Elon said they were not like other auto makers, yet apparently their marketing tactics are. That video was as misleading as the ICE truck pulling a train or plane promos. I expected better from Tesla.

Come on fun is what it is all about and putting the middle finger up to conservative vehicle manufacturers. Tesla pulled a plane not long ago and Ford then thought lets pull some wagons.
Cybertruck made the F150 look like a toy even being towing it to the scrape heap.

 

[MagnusMako]

Yeah the f450 is not squarely in the middle.

I configured the F-450 on Ford's website as a 4x4, crew cab, DRW, 8' bed (only option), and 176" wheelbase (only option). This came out to $58,660. I think these options are what you need ticked to make it as apples to apples as possible to the Cybertruck. You can chop it up any number of ways you want to make the price go higher or lower but this is what seemed the most relevant config to me.

 

[ricohman]

This test is all about weight. The heavier vehicle will win.

 

[mongo]

Yes, that is part of the answer. Tires that turn into viscous goo when you melt them during the pre-race burnout. But the bulk of the answer is related to down-force. If you watch the start of the race closely, you can see the car get pushed down by the force of the exhaust pipes which are aimed straight up.

Interesting point, though much of the initial squat at launch is due to wrapping the tires around the wheels.

Overall, there is also a bunch of exhaust force is (~1,000 lbs), but it is dwarfed by the rear airfoil (12,000 lbs) Top Fuel - Wikipedia.

 

[brianman]

I find it odd that he completely ignores the "same weight" claim Elon made in the reveal. Further, he just pulls +1000 out of the air and then says "well, now that we know it's 1000 more" as if that is suddenly a fact we can assume. Makes the rest of the video less interesting to me.

Additional note:
I'm not a truck guy but maybe someone who is a truck guy can identify more about the configuration from the image. For example I haven't heard any commentary on that this is an extended cab, probably chosen not arbitrarily by Tesla.

 

[geoffmanley]

This test is all about weight. The heavier vehicle will win.

Provided there is sufficient torque to pull the lighter vehicle. I don't see how an ICE vehicle could ever win in a tug of war vs electric.

 

[MagnusMako]

This test is all about weight. The heavier vehicle will win.

I think the vehicle with the most and instant torque and proper tires with weight being equally distributed over the axles should have the advantage here. This could be considered a "fair" comparison if we go by weight only and not price. But I think the more practical comparison that buyers care about is going to be the towing capability based on price. And on top of that, what is the real world range for each vehicle while towing.

 

[Just a Reader]

Wrong on every count, but never mind clearly "just having a bit of fun" is not in your dna.

A predictable and rather lame response. The "can't you take a bit of banter/fun" is almost exclusively being asked when someone else is at the receiving end of a poor joke. The very moment the roles are reversed, anything that is perceived as being only remotely negative will be obsessively rebutted by guy who demanded tolerance for his "jokes" just previously.
Musk is well aware of how many people will take his "jokes" at face value.

 

[CMoZ]

I don't fault Tesla for using marketing tactics like this. People are emotional and remember images like this way more than torque specs or other metrics. In many of the comments I read on general stories about the Cybertruck, people don't even think it has a truck bed. So for that audience who doesn't understand the first thing about this truck, a visual like this might resonate more.

Yuuuuuppp. You can see this repeatedly in this thread. Elon specifically said that the cybertruck weighs almost exactly what an F150 weighs but yet people keep going on about the heavier vehicle having the advantage in this tug of war. Nobody seems to remember that

 

[Just a Reader]

Yuuuuuppp. You can see this repeatedly in this thread. Elon specifically said that the cybertruck weighs almost exactly what an F150 weighs but yet people keep going on about the heavier vehicle having the advantage in this tug of war. Nobody seems to remember that

So where is the evidence for his claim? Why should people take his claims at face value?

As to towing ability with an ICE vehicle one has to consider the gearing of the transmission.

 

[e-FTW]

Yuuuuuppp. You can see this repeatedly in this thread. Elon specifically said that the cybertruck weighs almost exactly what an F150 weighs but yet people keep going on about the heavier vehicle having the advantage in this tug of war. Nobody seems to remember that

I think the point made in the video I posted above was that the seemingly base and RWD F-150 is lighter than what the Cybertruck probably weighs. Note the use of “seemingly” and “probably” since know very little.
IIRC Elon in his presentation said that comparable Cybertruck and F-150s would weigh about the same. That is different than what we appear to be seeing in the tug-of-war video.

 

[thegruf]

A predictable and rather lame response

Hey, that's a new one - never been called lame before ... i shall wear it with pride

 

[Tes*la*rosa]

I’m sure Ford getting cold feet goes very well with the macho F150 crowd

Why doesn’t Ford just use their electric F-150 that was used to pull the trailer of trucks instead of backing out of the rematch? Both are prototypes, so seems fair imo. That would be a much better challenge, as it’s very predictable which truck will win (again) in the electric vs ICE rematch.

I’m curious to see who’d come out on top in a Rivian v Cybertruck challenge also. Not that it would affect my purchasing decision as I’m still buying the Cybertruck anyways, but would still be fun to watch!