Fair tug of war?

[Swampgator]

A predictable and rather lame response. The "can't you take a bit of banter/fun" is almost exclusively being asked when someone else is at the receiving end of a poor joke. The very moment the roles are reversed, anything that is perceived as being only remotely negative will be obsessively rebutted by guy who demanded tolerance for his "jokes" just previously.
Musk is well aware of how many people will take his "jokes" at face value.

Please don't act like a tool.

 

[CMoZ]

I think the point made in the video I posted above was that the seemingly base and RWD F-150 is lighter than what the Cybertruck probably weighs. Note the use of “seemingly” and “probably” since know very little.
IIRC Elon in his presentation said that comparable Cybertruck and F-150s would weigh about the same. That is different than what we appear to be seeing in the tug-of-war video.

I don't think that's a good assumption. All the F150's with the super crew cab weigh about 4900lbs (+- 300lbs ) regardless of drivetrain. the only exception being the raptor that weighs somewhere around 5600lbs so I think it's pretty reasonable to assume weight is in the neighbourhood for the tug of war. At least as close as any competitor test could be the weights are never going to be exact

 

[EVNow]

as it’s very predictable which truck will win (again) in the electric vs ICE rematch.

May be it's predictable to you - but to millions of users of F150, it's not.

 

[T3slaDad]

Not sure if you guys saw it yet, but Ford decided to bow out of the F150 rematch. Elon said he's going to do it himself anyway I'm about a week hopefully and live stream it!

I would prefer to see towing competitions instead, what about you?

 

[Daniel in SD]

The Model X is about the same weight as an F150. How is Tesla going to make the Cybertruck the same weight as the Model X?
The 4WD F150 has a knob that you turn that multiplies the torque by 2.6. When doing silly tug of war tests you should definitely turn this knob!

 

[jerry33]

Not sure if you guys saw it yet, but Ford decided to bow out of the F150 rematch. Elon said he's going to do it himself anyway I'm about a week hopefully and live stream it!

I would prefer to see towing competitions instead, what about you?

A towing competition would be good too.

 

[alsetym]

I propose that the cybertruck operator should perform the test from outside the vehicle using his cell phone. Cause he can.

 

[T3slaDad]

I propose that the cybertruck operator should perform the test from outside the vehicle using his cell phone. Cause he can.

Haha!! Or just turn on creep and let off the brake pedal and see if it wins. Actually, I'm curious how much it would pull just "creeping" now lol!

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The 4WD F150 has a knob that you turn that multiplies the torque by 2.6. When doing silly tug of war tests you should definitely turn this knob!

I'm starting to think that Elon may not know how torque works. That would be odd, but I'm having a hard time reconciling this absurd situation any other way.

You'd think at this point in the discussion he would have at least mentioned what the Cybertruck drive ratio is, etc., which would allow people to talk intelligently about this. Did I miss that?

 

[Daniel in SD]

I'm starting to think that Elon may not know how torque works. That would be odd, but I'm having a hard time reconciling the situation any other way.

Archimedes is rolling in his grave.

 

[mongo]

I'm starting to think that Elon may not know how torque works. That would be odd, but I'm having a hard time reconciling this absurd situation any other way.

You'd think at this point in the discussion he would have at least mentioned what the Cybertruck drive ratio is, etc., which would allow people to talk intelligently about this. Did I miss that?

Torque greater than traction is pointless. Low gear lets the engine operate near its optimal power band while crawling along. This increases available power and reduces the clutch slip or torque converter speed differential needed.

Assuming equal tires and mass, whichever vehicle can ride the edge of wheel grip most closely will win.

Cybertruck has max torque at zero MPH. A manual transmission ICE can't do that (for long) without burning up the clutch. An automatic ICE has the torque converter to provide rotational compliance and torque multiplication. As the torque increases you get closer to wheel spin. CT can drop motor RPM and torque rear instantly whereas the ICE has all that rotational inertia to deal with before regaining grip along with limited response rate of the engine.

 

[keeney]

Interesting point, though much of the initial squat at launch is due to wrapping the tires around the wheels.

View attachment 481691

Overall, there is also a bunch of exhaust force is (~1,000 lbs), but it is dwarfed by the rear airfoil (12,000 lbs) Top Fuel - Wikipedia.

Yes, once the dragster starts to pickup some speed, the downforce from the wing also starts to kick in. Its all about the downforce. Or the weight.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Torque greater than traction is pointless.

Agreed. I just figured they would put a few thousand pounds (whatever made sense based on the numbers) in the bed of each truck. Elon was the one who started talking about crazy electric motor torque though...which is a bit silly (for the reasons you mentioned), which was my point.

 

[keeney]

Even if the two trucks are the same weight, the rwd Ford with only 40% of the weight on the rear axle isn't going to win many pulling contests. My 18hp garden tractor could probably give that rwd Ford a good contest.

 

[Tslacg]

What is the best selling trim of the Ford f150? Is it possible the trim used in the video is in fact the best selling trim, therefore speaking to that group of people specifically that our $40,000 truck beats yours?

I'd still like to see a tug if war with their latest raptor VS the CT tho. I give Tesla the win, but it would confirm a lot more.

 

[Tes*la*rosa]

May be it's predictable to you - but to millions of users of F150, it's not.

Agreed. I’m looking forward to several more tug-o-wars of ICE vs electric. Denial will surely set in for many at first, but soon, millions of people will eventually get it. If that leads to “but try that against the Ford electric”, it’s a win either way as it will have been acknowledged that to beat an electric, it takes another electric

 

[Rusty1]

The test didn’t come across as fair because it appeared to be a RWD Ford, and it was not stated if the Tesla was only RWD. If it was, it was fair. Best to test 4WD versions of both vehicles as if they were just driven off the lot. This is just for fun and marketing. Loading both vehicles down will result in something breaking.

 

[Rusty1]

Provided there is sufficient torque to pull the lighter vehicle. I don't see how an ICE vehicle could ever win in a tug of war vs electric.

Awesome observation! Now just convince 1.5M people who buy dinosaur trucks of this and the world is a better place.

 

[nativewolf]

So where is the evidence for his claim? Why should people take his claims at face value?

As to towing ability with an ICE vehicle one has to consider the gearing of the transmission.

because he is the guy that sort of runs the company that builds the truck.. Who else are you going to trust... A ford or VW. Both chronic proven liars? I'll take Tesla's word vs other automakers.

 

[nativewolf]

The test didn’t come across as fair because it appeared to be a RWD Ford, and it was not stated if the Tesla was only RWD. If it was, it was fair. Best to test 4WD versions of both vehicles as if they were just driven off the lot. This is just for fun and marketing. Loading both vehicles down will result in something breaking.

Rumored that if in 4wd mode the transmission fail when it locked up going backwards. I have no idea if this is true....but could you ruin a 4wd if locked up and being towed in reverse?