Faraday Future

[green1]

Well, they've updated their site, if you go to the ces2016 section now you can gaze at pictures of their concept, and watch the videos they showed.

They also have such wonderful statistics as: 0-60 in under 3 seconds (so, like a P90D?) 1000HP really? that much power, in a vehicle that should wheigh less than the MS, and you can't beat the 0-60 time? and top speed of 200mph. Of course without a car that can drive, you can take all of those with a hefty mountain of salt...

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We will find out in 3 long years.

Not a chance. They've showed today that they are way more than 3 years away from producing an actual driveable car.

 

[jlake02]

The most important thing they announced was their production philosophy that allows them to take the same basic frame and tweak it to create different models.

On its face, this is a very intriguing idea that could potentially allow them to mass produce several different types of vehicle without needing to go back to the drawing board each time.

The REALITY remains to be seen (obviously) but I liked the concept.

 

[Super_Popular]

Well, they've updated their site, if you go to the ces2016 section now you can gaze at pictures of their concept, and watch the videos they showed.

They also have such wonderful statistics as: 0-60 in under 3 seconds (so, like a P90D?) 1000HP really? that much power, in a vehicle that should wheigh less than the MS, and you can't beat the 0-60 time? and top speed of 200mph. Of course without a car that can drive, you can take all of those with a hefty mountain of salt...

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Not a chance. They've showed today that they are way more than 3 years away from producing an actual driveable car.

I dunno, it just seems weird that they would have this event and break ground on a plant if they didn't already have something to build.

 

[Discoducky]

Hard to watch as my expectations were set a bit too high. So, let us say that they follow Tesla's timeline or do a bit better.

They should introduce the first car to production in 2018 and it will be a Roadster (2 seat sportscar). Since they didn't talk about charging I'm assuming they don't have a good story yet. Let's hope it is of a competitive range of say 300 miles and the other spec's are competitive.

Also, I'm not sold on the benefits of FF over TM. Maybe they are more agile? But, I highly doubt it as I have a pretty good understanding of how agile TM is and let us say that TM pushes the boundary of human capability on a daily basis...shall we!

What other benefits does FF bring to the table? I do like the idea, yes the idea, of the variable platform and so called 'string battery'. These are the benefits in my estimation, but it really stops there.

The cabin design seems very gimmicky like the smartphone in the steering wheel. Let's see that pass a crash test.

I could be swayed on the 45 degree NASA inspired, zero gravity ultra-white comfort seat, but I really feel like this is hand waving. We all know how hard it is to put a radical design seat into production....don't we!

Maybe their UI will be better and maybe they are really going to provide for package space on a host of autonomous hardware...that would be really awesome, but it is a huge grain of salt at the moment.

I really feel like they will need to figure out a way to bring the other vehicle systems into 'the software fold' to really be agile into production. This is the real bottleneck in my experience. These components are stuck in the dark ages of vehicle connectivity, agility and ease of manufacturing when compared to compiling a new software build of modern design micro's on ECU's.

All the other stuff surrounding their design process and virtual reality of being able to visualize hardware before building prototypes is umm, yeah, that's common, sorry, when compared to Tesla.

Where does FF need to focus their creative energy?

1. Vehicle hardware, sub-systems integration and connectivity, cohesion, interoperability... I'm not saying to make their own EPAS, but hey, the thought did cross my mind...Will they make their own brake system? Suspension? Body controls? How are you going to be agile when those components don't talk to anything else in the car without going through a 30 year old protocol? Can't be updated without crazy long validation....ugh, please!
2. UI, we saw very little UI. If FF is truly going to give us a vision of the future, show us the UI and how we are going to interact and hey, it might be hand waving!!!
3. Charging and infrastructure...we all know this all to well...Superchargers are just about Tesla's biggest advantage over any other company on the planet!
4. All the other things that a real car company delivers like Service centers, buying experience, warranties, best in class safety...yatta yatta

All things being equal, let us measure them by how fast they can deliver their first production vehicle and how compelling said vehicle is when compared to their competitors at that time.

I hope they can compete as 2018/2019 is shaping up to be a very interesting time for BEV's and driving autonomy...

 

[eloder]

I laughed at the smartphone in the steering wheel bit. The 2016 smart car pretty much already does this, with a built-in smartphone holster that replaces many standard car functions (like radio/music/navigation) with an app.

I hope they succeed, but that presentation was pretty meaningless.

 

[green1]

The most important thing they announced was their production philosophy that allows them to take the same basic frame and tweak it to create different models.

On its face, this is a very intriguing idea that could potentially allow them to mass produce several different types of vehicle without needing to go back to the drawing board each time.

The REALITY remains to be seen (obviously) but I liked the concept.

Tesla announced the same idea, skateboard that allows different models, like the S and X on the same platform... hardly new and innovative even when Tesla did it.

 

[green1]

Tesla unveiled the MS prototype in 2009 and delivered the first one in 2012
FF hasn't released any prototype of a vehicle yet, certainly nothing on the level of what Tesla showed in 2009, so to say they'll be ready in 3 years is laughable.

 

[Super_Popular]

merge this thread

 

[Krugerrand]

Umm...

 

[ohmman]

I was disappointed as well. I didn't have high hopes, but I did have some kind of hope that there would be a legitimate second line of defense in the EV/ICE battle. I seriously felt like the whole thing was a bunch of woo staged for that sweet investment capital. In that sense, it reminded me of Steorn's o-cube. Orbo - The Battery Is Dead Orbo technology - the battery is dead

 

[Dutchie]

It was just a whole lot of blablablabla with hardly any substance. What did that "Great Alliances" mean? They did not say anything about that.
The only interesting thing I picked out was the modules of the batteries that can be changed. That is good, not having to change the whole pack.

 

[dsm363]

Great summary Discoducky.

 

[cman8]

Being in the market to get a CPO MS, I was hopeful they would deliver something great to hopefully compete in some regard to the cars tesla makes. This looked as others said, gimicky and almost just like a publicity stunt, horrible speakers and didnt even know why the guy from letv was there nor was he fully understandable. Very disappointed.

 

[omarsultan]

Elon should send them a box of chocolates--they made him look slick.

Like everyone else, I was hoping FF would help advance the EV revolution, but saw nothing but a bunch of handwaving by a automotive dilettantes. And yes, you could argue Elon was also an auto dilettante, but he approached Tesla with respect for the process.

 

[Zaxxon]

Very slick presentation with lighting and graphics but not much more. Will see what they deliver. Disappointed they didn't talk more about what they actually planned to produce. Not show a slick concept car. That's very much what traditional car companies do. And how quick and fast is the concept? And the range? And the charging network?

Man, that's what they were going for but it sure didn't land for me. They went into their 'slick' reveal and it was just laughable. That prototype is not produceable, nor is it appealing, either for its looks (to me it seems like a designer went nuts with no engineering or marketing oversight whatsoever) or its functionality (specifically, it has none).

They had an opportunity here with the world's rapt attention, and they spent 45 minutes communicating three minutes of content, a concept that will never see the light of day in any recognizable form, and a CGI video.

The modular design aspect is intriguing, but they didn't give any detail as to how they actually plan to implement it or how it's superior to Tesla's tech. They didn't mention anything at all about vehicles they'll actually produce, how they'll sell/share/service them, batteries, charging, etc. Wasted opportunity.

I've bitched about Tesla's presentation deficiencies before (namely the tendency to show zero respect for their attendees' time), but at least Tesla presents tangible details on things they plan to build.

I do think they may eventually come out with something interesting, and given the ground breaking in a few weeks I tend to believe they must have something up their sleeves. But tonight was a full-on train wreck.

 

[SteveG3]

Hard to watch as my expectations were set a bit too high. So, let us say that they follow Tesla's timeline or do a bit better.

They should introduce the first car to production in 2018 and it will be a Roadster (2 seat sportscar). Since they didn't talk about charging I'm assuming they don't have a good story yet. Let's hope it is of a competitive range of say 300 miles and the other spec's are competitive.

Also, I'm not sold on the benefits of FF over TM. Maybe they are more agile? But, I highly doubt it as I have a pretty good understanding of how agile TM is and let us say that TM pushes the boundary of human capability on a daily basis...shall we!...

I still hold a little hope. I actually feel more optimistic about this company's chances than I did about Fisker or Coda before they went under.

tonight did not offer encouragement that there is focused and capable leadership that will take this company through the brutal challenges of getting a startup vehicle company off the ground. they get may well be getting into a mess and in need of finding a new CEO to lead them out of it. Tesla had what 3 CEOs before Elon narrowly cleaned things up before the company went under?

as to what the company has over Tesla? they don't need to have anything over Tesla, they don't even have to be as good as Tesla. Tesla's aim for 2020 we all know is 500K vehicles produced per year. The global vehicle market is projected to be 100 million vehicles per year at that point. So, Tesla will take 0.5% market share if they stay on their timeline. Nissan is the only other company that seems like it may be serious about large volume long range EV production (well, Apple may be too). If FF can produce a vehicle better than some ICE, I don't see why they can't sell ~50K vehicles, or 0.05% of the global market in that timeframe. I don't look at tonight and say, "no way they can make an EV better than 0.05% of ICE vehicles produced in 2020." Long distance? why wouldn't they join Tesla's SuperCharging network? put aside the press' attempt to persuade that everything is about being a Tesla killer... Tesla of 2016 and 2020 are potential massive legs up to success for a new entrant that Tesla of course did not have at this stage in its development.

 

[green1]

Elon should send them a box of chocolates--they made him look slick.

Like everyone else, I was hoping FF would help advance the EV revolution, but saw nothing but a bunch of handwaving by a automotive dilettantes. And yes, you could argue Elon was also an auto dilettante, but he approached Tesla with respect for the process.

Maybe there's a reason the guy doesn't work at Tesla any more?

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I still hold a little hope. tonight did not offer encouragement that there is focused and capable leadership that will take this company through the brutal challenges of getting a startup vehicle company off the ground. they get may well be getting into a mess and in need of finding a new CEO to lead them out of it. Tesla had what 3 CEOs before Elon narrowly cleaned things up before the company went under?

as to what the company has over Tesla? they don't need to have anything over Tesla, they don't even have to be as good as Tesla. Tesla's aim for 2020 we all know is 500K vehicles produced per year. The global vehicle market is projected to be 100 million vehicles per year at that point. So, Tesla will take 0.5% market share if they stay on their timeline. Nissan is the only other company that seems like it may be serious about large volume long range EV production (well, Apple may be too). If FF can produce a vehicle better than some ICE, I don't see why they can't sell ~50K vehicles, or 0.05% of the global market in that timeframe. I don't look at tonight and say, "no way they can make an EV better than 0.05% of ICE vehicles produced in 2020." Long distance? why wouldn't they join Tesla's SuperCharging network? put aside the press' attempt to persuade that everything is about being a Tesla killer... Tesla of 2016 and 2020 is a potential massive leg up to success for a new entrant that Tesla of course did not have at this stage in its development.

It's not about them not showing something "better", it's about them not showing anything at all... they can't compete with a power-wheels right now, let alone a car.

 

[SteveG3]

It's not about them not showing something "better", it's about them not showing anything at all... they can't compete with a power-wheels right now, let alone a car.

I'm talking about 2018-2020.

 

[green1]

I'm talking about 2018-2020.

But they aren't. Tesla showed a fully working prototype of the MS 3 years before the first deliveries, FF hasn't shown any evidence they have even a prototype that can move a single inch under it's own power. I don't believe the 2-4 years bit for a second.

I want them to succeed, honestly I do, but I hold everyone to the same standard, show me you have something and I'll be interested, deliver on it and I'll believe you. So far they're nowhere near the first of those requirements.

 

[bonnie]