Fatal autopilot crash, NHTSA investigating...

[tls]

The guy that died was a former Navy EOD guy. Absolute shame. I am very close to a few of his former EOD coworkers and they are all very, very sad.

This was sent to me on Monday by my good friend:

"A buddy of mine (Josh Brown- prior Navy EOD) had the same car with the auto pilot and loved it. He drove all over the country in his tending to his business and had all the recharge stations mapped out everywhere. It was cool and he posted a bunch of YouTube videos with one being picked up by Elon Musk and posted on the Tesla site. When that happened, Josh posted on Facebook: "I can die and go to heaven now..." Unfortunately that statement was prophetic in that Josh died a couple of weeks later in a car accident. We're pretty certain, he had it on auto-pilot while working on his laptop and didn't see the semi that pulled out. He shot underneath it and it clipped his roof killing him instantly. Sorry for the downer but, he loved that car and swore by it. To say I was relieved to see you "didn't" get the auto pilot is an understatement.. As soon as I saw you had ordered a Tesla, my blood literally ran cold until I saw 'no auto-pilot'. It is a great car and I feel like an old man in saying "please be careful in it young lady!!!" Take care"


Be safe out there - regardless if you're using auto-pilot or not.

"auto-pilot while working on his laptop"?

Wow, that's bat-puckey nutz. It has to be a misunderstanding, right? Nobody who's actually driven a Tesla on autopilot is that crazy, and besides, it'd be nearly impossible under anything but perfect conditions due to the nags...

 

[Todd Burch]

"auto-pilot while working on his laptop"?

Wow, that's bat-puckey nutz. It has to be a misunderstanding, right? Nobody who's actually driven a Tesla on autopilot is that crazy, and besides, it'd be nearly impossible under anything but perfect conditions due to the nags...

Refer to Electricfan above. There are people that would do that sort of thing...

 

[Todd Burch]

and besides, it'd be nearly impossible under anything but perfect conditions due to the nags...

Why? On the highway you can go a good 5 minutes without a nag, and all you have to do is slightly apply pressure to the wheel to get another 5+ minutes. Easy to do with a laptop on your lap.

(Should add that the whole laptop thing is pure speculation posted by one person here--so we should be careful about making that sort of assumption in this case.)

 

[ggnykk]

first of all, condolences to the family of the driver.

the question i have is the timing of the crossing. did the semi just decide to go without waiting for traffic? was it a legal turn?

given that it went under the trailer it may have had already good enough time to cross the road. someone could probably do the math to see if any reasonable person would have reacted sooner & how much time they would have. (off the top of my head, if you're paying attention you would see it assuming a flat road with no elevation changes, though it may take a while for you to register in your mind, and if you're distracted a little bit...)

i think tesla is posting this because they wish their system could have done better and they wanted to be transparent. but others are going to spin this as "omg teslas literally wants to murder you" (like on the level of the exploding air bags).

My guess is that the driver was paying attention, and totally trust the system would brake. But once he realized the system doesn't brake, it is way too late. The problem with these semi-auto system is that it would work 97% of the time, but not the remaining 3%. The 97% of the time it work, the system keep feeding you with confidence that it can handle the job, until it doesn't.

Are you suppose to be scared of the system all the time? or are you suppose to trust it? When do you trust it and when should you worry to take back control? It is just a huge contradiction, a huge gray area at best.

 

[Magus]

Examples of how the media over reacts to elicit drama and numbers- reports say Tesla is being investigated. The fact is there is a preliminary investigation into the accident. The hype is Tesla is being investigated.

 

[Stoneymonster]

My guess is that the driver was paying attention, and totally trust the system would brake. But once he realized the system doesn't brake, it is way too late. The problem with these semi-auto system is that it would work 97% of the time, but not the remaining 3%. The 97% of the time it work, the system keep feeding you with confidence that it can handle the job, until it doesn't.

Are you suppose to be scared of the system all the time? or are you suppose to trust it? When do you trust it and when should you worry to take back control? It is just a huge contradiction, a huge gray area at best.

Your guess is almost certainly wrong.

 

[tls]

All the nagging that the software does in the car to make sure you hold the steering wheel and do this and that, and all the disclaimers Tesla confronts the driver with, don't add up to a hill of beans. Human nature. They will do the wrong thing. Guaranteed. And doing the wrong thing in a car is way different than doing the wrong thing resulting in tapping on an ad when you were trying to send an email.

Sure, the fans will "dislike" this post because it is critical. (Or worse, it's "Tesla-bashing".) But it isn't. I care about this company. I've been a shareholder since 2012. And I don't like this mad rush into the future without taking a moment to more careful. Unlike Apple and other Valley products, this isn't about people's lifestyles. This is about people's lives.

So, here is footage of another ugly incident where a car smashes right into the side of a large, dangerous vehicle crossing its path. This too is about people's lives. But can we justly say autopilot is at fault? Watch the video, and you tell me.

 

[Jeff N]

(Should add that the whole laptop thing is pure speculation posted by one person here--so we should be careful about making that sort of assumption in this case.)

Yes. Although her post with that information may be completely sincere and legitimate it is worth noting that she has only been on TMC a bit over 2 weeks and had only posted around 60 messages prior to today so she has not yet established a strong history of credibility.

 

[Magus]

While we are at it, let's ban all Ferrari and Porsche cars. You know what, let's do prohibition too. If we had this kind of ferocity to work on the worlds true problems we would be in great shape.

Speeding, drinking factors in fatal Dubai Ferrari crash

 

[Todd Burch]

Are you suppose to be scared of the system all the time? or are you suppose to trust it?

Trust, but verify.

And if someone waited to see if the system braked so long that they never even touched the brakes before impact, than that person made a fatal mistake in judgement and trusted the system way, way too much.

You can still use the system safely without being nervous and without being hypervigilant...but you should always intervene at the first sign of discomfort with the situation.

 

[Stoneymonster]

While we are at it, let's ban all Ferrari and Porsche cars. You know what, let's do prohibition too. If we had this kind of ferocity to work on the worlds true problems we would be in great shape.

Speeding, drinking factors in fatal Dubai Ferrari crash

It worked so well the first time!

 

[Mark Z]

Some additional details

Self-Driving Car Driver Killed in Florida Collision, a First

Tesla driver using Autopilot feature killed by tractor trailer

At least ABC News (link in tinm's post) and FOX News (link above) have the answer:

"...the Tesla driver was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash..."

Conclusion: Keep your eyes on the road.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

"...the Tesla driver was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash..."

What an odd description.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Tesla driver using Autopilot feature killed by tractor trailer

At least ABC News (link in tinm's post) and FOX News (link above) have the answer:

"...the Tesla driver was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash..."

Conclusion: Keep your eyes on the road.

I'll take that with a grain of salt for now. Of course, now everyone is going to be worried we're all watching movies on the console, which we can't actually do.

 

[Todd Burch]

Tesla driver using Autopilot feature killed by tractor trailer

At least ABC News (link in tinm's post) and FOX News (link above) have the answer:

"...the Tesla driver was "playing Harry Potter on the TV screen" at the time of the crash..."

Conclusion: Keep your eyes on the road.

Ugh, the news media is so lazy nowadays. It just takes a few minutes to verify that the driver could not have been watching a movie on the screen. Plus, that immediately makes the story more interesting, because if the truck driver did indeed say that, it implies he made it up to hide something.

 

[Mark Z]

I'll take that with a grain of salt for now. Of course, now everyone is going to be worried we're all watching movies on the console, which we can't actually do.

Doesn't say a movie. Could it be a video game or other HP distraction he was "playing"? The driver of the truck says he saw something "Harry Potter" on "the TV Screen" or IMHO maybe some other "TV screen" after the crash. Could it have been an iPhone or iPad? Just another reason to keep your eyes on the road.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Doesn't say a movie. Could it be a video game or other HP distraction he was "playing"? The driver of the truck says he saw something "Harry Potter" on the touchscreen or IMHO maybe some other screen after the crash.

Yeah, which is why I'm skeptical. He may have misinterpreted what he saw. Could be another screen definitely.

 

[ggnykk]

That's just sad. Condolences all the way around.

That said, I have a hard time correlating the accident in any way to AP other than with regard to the fact that AP was in use.

I still firmly believe that AP should have been called DriverAssist, but that ship has long since sailed. Mariners and aviators know what AP are and are not, but the general public? Not so much.

My primary point is if the driver had (just) cruise control engaged, would the headlines read "Cruise control engaged..."? Maybe back in the day when cruise control was a new thing.

I'm not going to blame the shorts for fomenting hysteria, but I'm also going to reserve judgment until after the accident investigation is complete. Those perpendicular divided highway crossings are fraught with peril to begin with.

Again, condolences to his family and friends, whom I'm sure at the moment couldn't care less about the technology and stock price.

A name change from "autopilot" to "driver assist" wouldn't change anything at all, if the system behave the same way. Calling it a different name wouldn't make the system safer. Unless there are real change in the software/hardware to make the system safer.

 

[Todd Burch]

Doesn't say a movie. Could it be a video game or other HP distraction he was "playing"? The driver of the truck says he saw something "Harry Potter" on the touchscreen or IMHO maybe some other "TV screen" after the crash. Could it have been an iPhone or iPad? Just another reason to keep your eyes on the road.

Could have been a webpage on the browser, too.

 

[msnow]

Ugh, the news media is so lazy nowadays. It just takes a few minutes to verify that the driver could not have been watching a movie on the screen. Plus, that immediately makes the story more interesting, because if the truck driver did indeed say that, it implies he made it up to hide something.

I suspect the story is somewhat true but it wasn't the Tesla screen but his laptop or iPad. Time will tell.