Turns out most of that post was just a republication of Tesla's blog. Not a new media article.
Meanwhile, my critique of the Fortune magazine article is here: Fact Checking and Truth Squading media articles on Tesla
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Turns out most of that post was just a republication of Tesla's blog. Not a new media article.
Meanwhile, my critique of the Fortune magazine article is here: Fact Checking and Truth Squading media articles on Tesla
rog
Member
Just stumbled across this video from 2014 where Elon is being asked about liability and Autopilot:
They have very basic videos already on the support part of the website.
Model S Walkthrough
Model X Walkthrough
Touchscreen Overview
There are also illustrated manual overview PDFs guides that show up in your Mytesla after ordering. While its still not the same as sitting in it, It made my delivery process a lot faster. I don't remember seeing an autopilot one, though.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately there's no video on the site (that I can find) describing the proper usage and current limitations of autopilot. I think they should put one up if at least just for due diligence.
Agree. They should have Auopilot Academy. Learn to safely operate your starship. (Perhaps also a training program on the 17 inch screen when you activate autopilot for the first time.)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
One of the first articles I've seen that actually says the correct NHTSA autonomy levels (0 - 4 not 1 - 5 like SAE)
Relax: self-driving cars won’t kill you (and they’re not really self-driving, yet) | ExtremeTech
Relax: self-driving cars won’t kill you (and they’re not really self-driving, yet) | ExtremeTech
Tam
Well-Known Member
So, in summary, there are 6 levels in SAE from 0 to 5, and 5 levels in NHTSA from 0 to 4:
http://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf
0 No Automation
1 Driver Assistance
2 Partial Automation
3 Conditional Automation
4 High Automation
5 Full Automation
SAE from 0 through 2 requires driver to monitor environment. That means you just can't shift the responsibility to the system to detect the white truck
U.S. Department of Transportation Releases Policy on Automated Vehicle Development | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
No-Automation (Level 0)
Function-specific Automation (Level 1)
Combined Function Automation (Level 2)
Limited Self-Driving Automation (Level 3)
Full Self-Driving Automation (Level 4)
NHTSA seems to focus on how much automation you get from 0 to 2 but I don't read whose responsibility it is to detect a white truck.
According to NHTSA, Tesla Autopilot seems to fit perfectly to Level 3:
"Limited Self-Driving Automation (Level 3): Vehicles at this level of automation enable the driver to cede full control of all safety-critical functions under certain traffic or environmental conditions and in those conditions to rely heavily on the vehicle to monitor for changes in those conditions requiring transition back to driver control. The driver is expected to be available for occasional control, but with sufficiently comfortable transition time. The Google car is an example of limited self-driving automation."
The Autopilot works very well in "certain traffic or environmental conditions..."
It works so well in some specific scenarios that someone was caught taking a nap.
I think where Autopilot falls short of NHTSA Level 3 is "Vehicles at this level of automation enable the driver to cede full control of all safety-critical functions" and "The driver is expected to be available for occasional control, but with sufficiently comfortable transition time." Tesla makes it very clear that you can't fully cede control, and that you have to be available to take over immediately. Not with a comfortable transition time.
deonb
Active Member
According to the NHTSA, Autopilot is a Level 2.
If it were a Level 3, it'd have the necessary redundancies build in. And mainly, I could turn around, and talk to my passengers in the rear seats, without keeping an eye on the road, since I'm ceding control to the car. Also, if Tesla were a Level 3, we would NEVER have the "take over immediately" hands of death.
Please don't confuse people.
Again, no. Autopilot fits perfectly into Level 2.
Level 3 requires more redundancies than Tesla has, Level 3 requires NEVER getting the take over immediately. Tesla originally advertised AP as Level 3 "on-ramp to off-ramp", but it's not there, and with the current hardware suite will never be there.
For reference:
Combined Function Automation (Level 2): This level involves automation of at least two primary control functions designed to work in unison to relieve the driver of control of those functions. An example of combined functions enabling a Level 2 system is adaptive cruise control in combination with lane centering.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
A combination of any two features makes for level 2. Tesla Autopilot is more advanced that just TACC and lane-keeping, therefore I gave it a fake level of 2.5
Note that 2.5 is not a real level and also note that 2.5 is < 3. So saying "no" is not really an option because 2.5 is level 2 so you're actually agreeing with me.
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In what way is Tesla Autopilot more advanced than TACC and lane-keeping? I thought that is exactly what it is.
Please elaborate.
If you're referring to the lane change, then that's still part of Level 2 (I'll give you a Level 2.1 for that
). You're still in control, yadda yadda yadda. Level 3 is semi-autonomous. Level 2 is not. Lane change is no where near semi-autonomous. If anything, it's one of the more dangerous features of Tesla's AutoPilot (no rear radar). Tesla is no where near semi-autonomous highway driving at this point in time.
At this point, we'll have to agree to disagree. (unless I missed something and your elaboration will change my mind)
JeffK
Well-Known Member
They are integers so int(2.5) == 2 or floor(2.5) == 2This is as silly as me saying: If I round 2.5, I get 3. So I stand by my no.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
TACC has been around a long time and not all TACC systems are full stop (which is a huge improvement) and there's also AEB.
Full stop TACC is what allows it to function properly in stop and go traffic. Without this you'd actually have to take over at all slow speeds making it useless for stop and go traffic. The functionality allows you to potentially go for miles without user intervention (besides the required hands on the steering wheel). You could potentially have hours of what feels like autonomous driving (even though it's not autonomous). This is the thing that fools some people into a false sense of security.
There are stretches of road where the Tesla Autopilot even being at level 2 will behave identically to a level 4 vehicle as long as traffic conditions are "normal" and nothing strange happens.
Although it will be impossible to substantiate, I would expect that Tesla's AP at this point has saved more lives than it has cost.
It has certainly prevented a number of accidents, of which some could have caused fatalities.
Although the Model S is a very safe car, even the driver who was tragically killed while using the AP could in principle have had his life saved by it on a previous occasion, e.g. the one he got so much attention for when the AP saved him from that truck doing a dangerous lane change. Being a former navy SEAL he was used to familiarize himself with equipment on which his life would depend (e.g. diving and parachuting equipment), so I could imagine how he saw how the AP had previously saved him, and then put too much faith into its capability.
We will never know, but when used correctly, I feel confident that the AP actually offers some protection against human stupidity and I would not be surprised if it already now has had a net benefit.
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