Finally 120KW Supercharging!

[dirkhh]

Here is a plot of my Sig #37 charging at Siverthorne. The data are from two charging sessions. Boulder to Pagosa, I get to Silverthorne with plenty of charge, but need to do a range charge to make it to Pagosa. Pagosa to Boulder, I do a range charge in Pagosa, and arrive in Silverthorne with low miles in the battery. The State of Charge (miles) is in rated miles, and the Rate (mph) is Volts * Amps / 300 W-hr/mi. The discontinuity just after 0:45 is where I tried to put the two sets of data together.

Notice that charge rate goes below about 90 kW (300 mph) at about 100 miles SOC. As I have said before the time difference to get from 0 to 100 with 90 and 120 kW is only about 5 minutes. With that, this curve is close to the "ideal" curve on the Tesla web page, but a little slower. Also, with the taper starting at 100 miles and down to less than 150 mph at 200 miles SOC, there is no way to get 200 miles in 30 minutes as the Tesla web page claims. It seems to be more like 35-40 minutes to me with the taper. Close, but no cigar.

The way I read this you never really got more than 90kW. 120kW would be 400mph the way you plotted this.
And yes, this once again shows that the "200 miles in 30 minutes" claim is misleading.

 

[scaesare]

The way I read this you never really got more than 90kW. 120kW would be 400mph the way you plotted this.
And yes, this once again shows that the "200 miles in 30 minutes" claim is misleading.

Indeed, by multiplying by 300Wh/mi to get back to power, it appears that charge curve starts at only 90kW.

 

[Cottonwood]

The way I read this you never really got more than 90kW. 120kW would be 400mph the way you plotted this.
And yes, this once again shows that the "200 miles in 30 minutes" claim is misleading.

Yes, it appears the Sigs and older production cars cannot charge at more than 90 kW. At 300 W-hr/mi, 300 mph is 90 kW and 400 mph is 120 kW. I would like to hear from any early MS owners that have charged at 120 kW and what it took to make that happen.

With the taper going below 90 kW at 100 miles or so on in an 85, 120 kW is only 5 minutes or so faster than 90 kW peak. Also, with that taper, there is no way to get 200 miles in 30 minutes even in an 85 starting at 0 miles and 120 kW. From my data, it appears that the fastest time from 0 to 200 with a 120 kW limit is 35-40 minutes and with a 90 kW limit, 40-45 minutes. Still fast, but not up to the first graph on Tesla's Supercharger. BTW, my car is v5.6.

The real advantage of 120 kW is that there will be less limiting for two cars charging at the same time from one cabinet. This will be more of a concern as Superchargers get more heavily used, and has probably already been noticed at Hawthorne...

 

[apacheguy]

Yes, it appears the Sigs and older production cars cannot charge at more than 90 kW. At 300 W-hr/mi, 300 mph is 90 kW and 400 mph is 120 kW. I would like to hear from any early MS owners that have charged at 120 kW and what it took to make that happen.

Elon stated right from the start that it was always their goal to get above 100 kw supercharging. Seems crazy that they wouldn't have built that capability into Sigs. I'm sure there's a simple explanation and it'll all be sorted out.

Having said that, I'll be stopping by Hawthorne to test it out this week. It'll be my first supercharge since uprading to 5.x.

 

[Odenator]

Yes, it appears the Sigs and older production cars cannot charge at more than 90 kW. At 300 W-hr/mi, 300 mph is 90 kW and 400 mph is 120 kW. I would like to hear from any early MS owners that have charged at 120 kW and what it took to make that happen.

On Facebook, an early car owner, VIN in the 2000's, posted that she was able to charge faster than 90kW.

 

[apacheguy]

120 kw Broken on Older VINs

Just tried out Hawthorne and the max I got was 85 kw. By 105 miles rated range I was already down to 72 kw. Thought the taper would have been better at least...

Any other Sigs have better luck?

 

[lloyds]

Here's what I'm getting

 

[apacheguy]

Here's what I'm getting

Whoa! You were pulling 88 kw at 126 miles. I was only getting 72 kw at 105 miles !?! Something is clearly wrong with my car.

 

[TylerCA]

Does it matter how many cars are charging at the station? Does it reduce charging speed and rate when there are more cars in the station?

 

[scaesare]

Does it matter how many cars are charging at the station? Does it reduce charging speed and rate when there are more cars in the station?

A single charger cabinet (say #1) feeds 2 cable assemblies (#1A & #1B). The 120kWh of power is split between the cars using those 2 cable assemblies.

This is why if possible, it's best to try and use a separate "numerical" charging stalls. Note that at the new Glen Allen VA location, the stalls sharing a charging cabinet are no longer adjacent to each other. They are laid out as 1A, 2A, 3A, 4A, 1B, 2B, 3B, 4B.

 

[wraithnot]

Does it matter how many cars are charging at the station? Does it reduce charging speed and rate when there are more cars in the station?

Each supercharger stack (the tall cabinets with the fan that contain the actual stack of 10 kW chargers shown in the first photo in emupilot's post here: NorCal Supercharger locations? - Page 13) serves two charge bays (the area with the cord that actually plugs into your car). And it definitely matters if there is already a car charging at the bay that shares the supercharger stack with the bay you plug into. If the superchargers are labelled, bays 1A and 1B are paired, 2A and 2B are paired, etc.

For an example, see the bottom graph on this post: 1,100 mile road trip to Las Vegas and back with a REST datalogger - the charge rate increased significantly when the car in bay 2A at Barstow unplugged while I was charging in bay 2B.

So the charge rate is kind of related to how many cars are charging at a station. But it is a little more complicated than simply counting the total number of cars.

 

[cinergi]

Tesla support is telling me that the SC engineering team said that Burlington, NC (where I reported the issue) isn't 120 yet. I told them in no uncertain terms that others are getting 120 there and that it wasn't just Burlington that didn't give me 120. I quoted a few posts here to add some data. So ball's back in their court (support's relaying that info back to engineering). Left hand isn't talking to right hand somewhere. I'll let you know if/when I get an update.

 

[apacheguy]

Tesla support is telling me that the SC engineering team said that Burlington, NC (where I reported the issue) isn't 120 yet. I told them in no uncertain terms that others are getting 120 there and that it wasn't just Burlington that didn't give me 120. I quoted a few posts here to add some data. So ball's back in their court (support's relaying that info back to engineering). Left hand isn't talking to right hand somewhere. I'll let you know if/when I get an update.

Thanks a lot for following up on this! I've tried calling them twice but they came up with similar excuses.

 

[Cottonwood]

Tesla support is telling me that the SC engineering team said that Burlington, NC (where I reported the issue) isn't 120 yet. I told them in no uncertain terms that others are getting 120 there and that it wasn't just Burlington that didn't give me 120. I quoted a few posts here to add some data. So ball's back in their court (support's relaying that info back to engineering). Left hand isn't talking to right hand somewhere. I'll let you know if/when I get an update.

Thanks for following up. I will probably be back in Silverthorne, CO with low miles in a 1.5 to 2 weeks. If you have a contact or case number, let me know, I will try to call and have them monitor my charge session there. PM me if that works better for you.

 

[markb1]

The way to determine charge rate in kW is to multiply current times voltage. The MPH rate is an average of some sort, and I don't trust it.

 

[Cottonwood]

The way to determine charge rate in kW is to multiply current times voltage. The MPH rate is an average of some sort, and I don't trust it.

I've looked at this carefully. The mph number displayed is the average of the session. Once you are in the taper, it is always higher than the most-recent, instantaneous charge rate. As you said do a little math, and the instantaneous power into the battery is Volts times Amps, and the instantaneous mph is Volts times Amps divided by 300 W-Hr/mi.

Another trick for an 85: Because the final Voltage is close to 400 V, the instantaneous mph is about 4/3 current in Amps for those who enjoy mental math. :biggrin:

 

[Vger]

I am another one of the "Neutered Ones"-- early builds that apparently cannot charge above 90 kW, despite 5.8 and charging at a known 120 kW supercharger (Burlington, WA). I wrote about this in this thread.

I have also sent polite but sternly-worded emails to both my Vancouver, BC service manager (who is a gem) and to Jerome Guillen, expressing my disappointment. Even if this does not make too big a difference in real terms, it is yet another very unfortunate slight to Signature owners.

-----

In happier news, I believe I verified that the taper is improved with 5.8 vs. 4.5, even with my non-120 kW-capable car. On our first supercharge at Burlington, WA after the 5.8 upgrade, the charge rate did not fall below 16 kW until we were at 97% SOC. On 4.5, we fell to 16 kW at about 94% SOC. Why did I notice/care about this? Currently, until the Ellensburg supercharger is built, it make sense to continue at Burlington, despite the taper, until the charge rate falls below what we can do on the 69A, 235V Roadster HPC in Ellensburg.

So anecdotally, it seems that the taper IS reduced (curve arched higher), across its whole range, as one would expect if they just changed the exponent of the governing function. Other better documentation is invited and eagerly awaited!

 

[Stoneymonster]

3280 here getting 122kw in Gilroy (I know it's probably rounding error).

 

[C.Ford]

3223 here on 5.8. This weekend I got 120kw in Burlington,NC, but 90kw in Rocky Mount, NC. Weird. I had my choice of charging bays and picked one in the middle. No other cars were charging. Are some bays 120 and some 90, or should they all be 120 capable?

 

[Huskerfl]

I recently did our first road trip and supercharged as the only car at these superchargers.
5.8 software. All were from spot 1A.

I went from 194 rated miles to 260 in 37 minutes for a rate of 107 mph gain. That seems to be better than your graph. Port Orange, FL

From 10 miles to 250 miles in 60 minutes for a rate of 240 mph gain. Burlington, nc.

From 3 rated miles to 100 miles in 16 min for a rate of 363 mph gain. Port Orange, FL