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Finkenbusch

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Finkenbusch, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #1 Finkenbusch, Jul 8, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2008
    @BBhighway

    I have not driven a Tesla - there currently in rare supply here in Austria.

    Anyhow I drove a hybrid (full electric ready) Mercedes A1 an a Prius.

    They are pretty advanced. If Schwarzenegger would not have knee-jerked to the US car industry in 2002 with his strict emission regulations (offer a 100% emission free car in you portfolio or seize sale in California) Mercedes A1 would run now in California - instead of being on display in our technical museum.
    They where technical 100% ready then and they are now. Only the market is not ready.

    Onehundered pieces of 100&% electric (Mercedes) "Smart" are running in Londons street todays - a solar connector was mounted offering free recharge opposite Buckingham Palace recently.

    Only looking at the Tesla dashboard (in comparation to a Mercedes A1 - I own a A1 190) make seem the hat of Queen elisabeth comparable electrifying funky.

    The Teslas interior is hardcore retro deep inside the style of the 50th. The interior air valves on the dashboard are a vivid reminder of the style & class of last USSR russian cars "Lada" & "Taiga".

    The technical basis is, given todays technologic possibilities (on the market and driving around in Europe - like modern batteries everywhere, Super-capacitors in our Metros are standard, in wheel motor in heavyweight stapler everywhere) of Tesla is outdated at best.

    Even a (former) Jugo like the Skoda is offering photoactive roofs for driving the aircondition while the car is parked in hot conditions today - as standard equipment of course.
    photoactive roofs

    While Tesla is unable even to buy a simple metallic transmission gear- not even from Magna who produce for BMW, Mercedes & Porsche in many months - and this is a company bringing us a cutting edge EV car?

    Or import a chassis from England nobody can fix / mend in the US after a accident - and has therefore replaced (shipped from England) totally as colours may never match 100%?

    Gimme a break.

    I do not want to elaborate how far more advanced japanese / European industry in the field of solar energy & alternative mass as well as individual transport is.

    And that is what truly bothers me - the USA was always a leader in technical innovation but lost recently its bite...
     
  2. Cobos

    Cobos S60 owner since 2013

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    Finkenbusch: It's pretty obvious that you like Mercedes and don't like Tesla which is fine, it's your opinion and anything I say wont change that.

    Still the world isn't really that black and white. I might add that Mercedes themselves had serious problems making a good gearbox for their own Smart. And their gen 1 car when launched in the US, there were lots of complaints about the gearbox. And now we are talking a completely off the shelf standard small gasoline car, with Mercedes R&D behind it. If they obviously can't make decent gearbox for a crappy car like the Smart you might want to cut Tesla with their 13000rpm 2-gear box some slack.

    While you got my riled up, what is it with the Smart ForTwo anyway (the Smart Roadster is great). I can understand its value in the US where you can't get 1.0 L engines at all and even smaller cars are big. But in Europe, it is too expensive and driving is a lot inspiring compared to the Mini. It is too expensive and a lot less practical than a simple VW Polo or Peugot 107 or a bunch of other 4-5 seat small cars. It's too big to legally park perpendicular and compared to much bigger cars like the Polo it uses a LOT of gasoline so it's not even a frugal car. As for the SmartEV, I might add Think will have produced about 20000 Think City's by the time Mercedes is finished with their evaluation phase. I fail to see how the Smart EV is any better than the Think City? Of course I am a Norwegian so that might color my views a bit :)

    Cobos
     
  3. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    unreflective brand name buyers/followers are sheep - at best...

    Nothing of your evaluation on me
    could be more wrong then that statement.

    I own for my personal use:

    - a vintage Alfa Romeo Spider,
    - one small Mazda, and
    - a Mercedes A1 190 with the most powerful motor available (by that time) produced.

    I would love to drive a solid EV - powered with my "on house solar panels".

    I have a simple taste:

    Whatever I choose, I go for the best cost/performance ratio
    and let the "brand follower/lover" you want to see me
    to where they belong - to the brain-dead sheeps.

    Contrary to your believe, I would love to see a army of Tesla around making it besides many, many other EV companies - but given the
    current Tesla management* performance their chances are slim.*

    Fact is - the success of EV depends NOT on the individual product, no matter Tesla, Volt, Lightning, Benz, e.g., but on a change on the underlying market.

    THAT is missing until today - everyone tries his own small garden - that wont work. The first approach (actually a scam to sell batteries but future looking in strategy) is Agassis trial in Israel.
    I wish him only lukewarm success as its not beneficial to anyone - not Israelis security, the buyer or the developers - except Agassis wallet. *

    Nevertheless Agassis basic politic is correct:

    Get the energy supply first and then the car - no matter which brand.

    As soon as shopping center owners like Wall Mart, McDonalds, petrol stations, restaurants find out that they can charge a a dime for nearly nothing (a high power connector is available everywhere where a business is in place - every a pizza oven, drive trough washing e.g. needs a high power 380 Volt line) and get rich by that we see a fleet of EV on our streets.

    Think like PEZ and/or Mustard - very little cost on the POS but make the producers/ vendors/ perpetrators enormous rich.

    Let business and politic (and state security - especially Israel & USA*) know that they are benefitting from .

    THAT is the key to bringing EV to the market - as London does it now with the 100 electric Smarts...

    (*I could elaborate more on that if you care - just dare to ask and I shall deliver:)
     
  4. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    Hub motors: failure for anything beyond a NEV. Unsprung weight is the enemy of handling, shaking a motor around is the enemy of making it efficient.

    A solar collector roof would have prevented the car from being open-top, which would have stopped some of us from buying it. Not going to miss it, as it wouldn't have extended the range, and taking the top off will cool the car in 30 seconds anyway.

    And I kind of like the open, airy interior - heck of a lot better than the Audi/VW interiors that remind me of some sort of black Atari dungeon.

    And I find the revisionist history on why the A-class wasn't brought over here to be amusing.
     
  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Re: Finkenbusch

    I like this guy!

    ...shakin it up...
     
  6. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Agreed. Most interesting club debut in months.
     
  7. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #7 Finkenbusch, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
    I'm a sober EV car fan - but do not expect a Tesla evangelist praying with singsang and crossed legs in spirituality to Teslas HQ

    - thanks for your kind understanding.

    I would like to see the e technology pushed on a broad basis to public transport - here is the right forum discussing on a eloquent basis as I see.

    And I LOVE the Tesla idea - a dream would have become true - I would have loved they had a better management / chance...

    Thank you
     
  8. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #8 Finkenbusch, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
    I meant the top of my house with solar collector - but a attachable solar roof for keeping the car cool on a hot day is nice and available in Europe with a higher class Skoda.
    And - Who wants to park a car open when every pisser may relieve himself to the plastic- just out of depression not owing a Tesla...

    VW are Jugos in Europe - Had a look at any open Porsche, Mercedes or Alfa Romeos dashboard recently?

    Take a look and come back then and tell me how the interior looked.

    The handbrake positioning (besides the rest looking like from a Indiana Jones movie) and look in the Tesla is retro at best- like in a willis cheep 1948...

    The Americans where not amused that they where not allowed to drive a A! (as I do) - the bright side only for them, they never find out what elegance they have missed - the A1 is (for the one who can afford one) the most intelligent, elegant, economic, safe and clever car for urban transport ever build by men. Thought service is ridiculous expensive

    That a unsave rude bummer like Hummer was ever allowed on Europe's streets is a miracle - but a small one - bcs only few whackos drive this ugly, crude and (look at the door-hinges like out of Gullivers Travel and the interiors like in a child's plastic dungeon) guzzler.

    We can live with that few:)
     
  9. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    I take a look at my 911 interior every day :). The instrument cluster is excellent - best ever. The climate control and radio? Suck. Badly. Horrid UI, though not as bad as BMW's iDrive or Mercedes' atrocious touchscreen UI. The Roadster interior is pointedly spartan - which I actually really like. I don't really notice things like air outlets - well, as long as they don't have any chrome on them. The 911's air outlets ain't exactly fancy looking anyway. And the auxillary switches are just OK, nothing that I'll miss.

    I'm going to miss having the window controls in the middle, where they belong. Not going to miss having the handbrake in the middle, though, where it doesn't belong. The Roadster's steering wheel is better than the 911's. The pedals are better. Oh, and it drives better.


    Being in California, I'm not terribly worried about people treating the car badly if I ever have to park it out somewhere.

    As for those Hummers, well, as an American, I can only apologize for that so many times. SUVs are all just a terrible blight on the roadways. I hope our rising gas prices make them all dissappear.
     
  10. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #10 Finkenbusch, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008

    oha.
    Hub / in wheel motors where used in ultra quite huge postage parcel busses in the night In the 50th...
    They worked perfect under even the most harsh weather conditions.

    True (partially) for a dedicated extreme race car but not for a car out on the US streets where even on highways 90 miles maximum are law.
    Anyhow - the unspung masses make more good then bad as the hub motors are mounted within all 4 tires, equals a constant 4 wheel drive (nowadays option in the most dedicated sports car), and give therefore excellent handling.


    Not quite - there is no motor so to speak but a canned rotor.
    Every heavy stapler in a warehouse has a in wheel motor since Frank Sinatra was in school - so technology is everywhere well understood (not at Telsa but thats another story) did you know?
    Furthermore - working rotors where / are heavily vibrated in every airplane and Amtrack since centuries
     
  11. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    Congratulations!

    The 911 was build 1964-1989 and is a vintage car.

    By that time he was top - notch. I drove one and always complained at the oil change - he was expensive to keep and undrivable in winter on icy streets.
    There where gallons and Gallons of oil needed for the motor :-(

    I gave up.

    Anyhow - to compare a elegant 1964 granddaddy to a 2009 showgirl (coming) is not entirely fair - to the daddy:)
     
  12. SByer

    SByer '08 #383

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    Yup, you just flipped the bozo bit.
     
  13. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #13 Finkenbusch, Jul 9, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
    This is america - and its allowed for anyone to try a little to find out if his opposite is a laymen.

    Dont forget - the 911 is a german product, Porsche produces in my immediate vicinity :)

    No worries.

    "Good Night, and Good Luck"
     
  14. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    "Eco Lotus Elise" becomes the first bio horse with tires

    Have you had the chance to drive the Tesla on a highway inly or curvy street as well?

    If only on a flat street, it would be very hard to tell how the car really performs.

    PS: Today where a announcement in the european papers that Lotus, the maker of the Teslas hull, is switching from the hulls current pure carbon to a mix of recycled material and uses green stuff like hemp, bio-wool & sisal fibers also for the inlet like the seats & carpets.

    AND

    In the upcoming ECO Elise roof-mounted solar panels will feed the board system with power - that could be "the" cooperation with Tesla - who knows...
     
  15. graham

    graham Active Member

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    Most of the test drives in Northern California are done up in the mountains above Woodside. The roads are quite curvy (with an occasional straightaway), and the car handles extremely well. The balance of the weight (batteries occupants) being mid-car make it corner extremely well.
     
  16. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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  17. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #17 Finkenbusch, Jul 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
    If any Apple employee would only consider in a bad dream showing Steve Jobs a model of this "from 100 feet crap looking cable" - Steve Jobs would move in a split second into berserk modus and the former employee happy if he could make it alive, without losing to much blood to the outside of the Apple campus.

    Anyone at Toyota or Nissan considering such a garbage loading equipment would see the door from the outside in a split of a second as well.

    He could apply only at GM for a job as CEO...

    Probably at the bible belt they have not yet heard of a inductive loading toothbrush.
    Available elsewhere in the industry and for home appliances since a century

    Its becoming clearer by the day:

    Tesla is at its base a unripe back door garage, run by novices / losers in the car industry, having financial (from Google shares profit only) to deep pockets, but not having had and still not having today any sound idea how to produce a decent car for the US customer, holding longer then a week.
    They cant even mend the Lotus hull as nobody in the US know how to fix a carbon based hull after any minor accident - they have to get a completely new one from England first as - what a scam!

    They shop for a british hull, fit a bunch of of-the-shelf mobile phone battery inside (a idea more crazy then clever) as well as getting the under-fitting from a GB do-it-yourself car boutique store and claim some very weak patents for that "technology breakthrough".

    The finding of the glass of water is a revolution in comparison.

    Musk and his group of evangelists are in the wrong universe.

    Any scholar stuffed with Musks 300 million US$ wallet poured only for personal pride into Tesla could buy that together easily - including a 1.5.drive train

    My prediction:

    12 months from now only some museums and by then finally mentally completely retired elderly George Clooney will show some interest (for a a few dollars he would endorse anything anyhow) - as the whole company will have gone (sad, sad indeed) the way of the Edsel.
     
  18. malcolm

    malcolm Active Member

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    Didn't Apple start out in Steve Wozniak's garage?

    I agree that the mobile charger looks dreadful, but it's only two years since the Roadster Engineering Prototypes 1 and 2 were given their public debut. Now there's....er....four DOT compliant production cars on the road. Still an amazing achievement.

    But of course, whatever Tesla does, we just want more.
     
  19. graham

    graham Active Member

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    Actually, this was quite clever. Perhaps a little crazy, but quite clever.

    It is easy to claim this, but the fact of the matter is that no one else has brought such a thing to production. Not even close. You can make all sorts of assertions about the viability of different pieces and parts of Tesla technology. However, today if you want to buy a new highway-capable fully electric car with reasonable range and fully safety standard compliance, you have a choice of one. It is easy to complain that what Tesla has accomplished is not perfect (and surely, it is not) - but their imperfection is much farther along than anyone else.

    That is certainly a possibility. Without any claims on the viability of the technology, the easy bet is against any new car company succeeding. However, even in the wildest predictions, no other company is planning to have an EV, or even a series hybrid... or for that matter even a plug-in parallel hybrid in the next 12 months. If Tesla does not make it, it will not be because their technology was bad, old, unviable, outdated, or unpalatable to you.

    Meet you back here in July of 2009.
     
  20. Finkenbusch

    Finkenbusch Member

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    #20 Finkenbusch, Jul 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2008
    True enough - your right with the garage absolutely.
    A lot (actually 99.99%) of valuable things started tiny - but look at the first Mac in comparison - everything had until then unseen style and class BY ITS OWN - not bought.

    The Apple mouse & the desktop alone were a completely NEW technologic breakthrough, a paradigm shift of enormous proportions, changing the way most folks saw the computer that left the chins hanging and ahhhs and ooohs sound.

    Tesla is not developing but faking - a lot of marketing and very little in the box as proven by that shitty cable alone.
     

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