Firmware 5.0

[apacheguy]

I agree with the result of your logic (I really want them to get the firmware right).
I'm perplexed that they use many brand new customers who happen to be in Europe or happen to have certain features (PDC, Winter Package) as guinea pigs and don't allow those of us who know their cars and would LIKE to be guinea pigs to test 5.0 as well. But that's a company decision and I can live with it.
What I don't agree with is the last sentence. Vampire drain is a massive issue. ~3kWh a day, 1000kWh a year that's actual cost. Also, cars parked without charging for a few weeks are possibly being bricked (an S60 would be a 0% SOC in about 3 weeks). Also, if you travel and don't have a charger right at the place where you stay (many hotels offer no place to charge) then you'll lose 5% of your charge a day in your S60 - that can cause you to get stranded on your way to the next charger.
So yes, I don't think they should roll out a buggy release, but I also think that vampire drain is much more than just a nuisance. It's a reasonably serious flaw.

This. Vampire drain is a huge issue in relation to cost and wasted electricity.

Also, I have heard the opposite regarding 5.0 - that there are not many bugs and the beta testers confirmed the latest release .102 addresses the bugs with cars not waking from sleep mode. That's just what I've gathered by following this thread and reviewing the bug tracker wiki. That plus the fact that Tesla is confident enough to include 5.0 in new deliveries.

 

[AnOutsider]

That plus the fact that Tesla is confident enough to include 5.0 in new deliveries.

I'm not sure how much weight this actually holds. Tesla has been sending cars out with the latest firmware for a few versions now. I'd actually think they'd want to do the opposite: send with older, more stable firmware, test on those who are used to the MS experience AND give the new owners the joy of a software update once the build is finally solid enough for a larger roll out.

 

[AlMc]

I'm not sure how much weight this actually holds. Tesla has been sending cars out with the latest firmware for a few versions now. I'd actually think they'd want to do the opposite: send with older, more stable firmware, test on those who are used to the MS experience AND give the new owners the joy of a software update once the build is finally solid enough for a larger roll out.

I agree with this sentiment. However, for some of the newer hardware features (parking sensors) to work properly does it need 5.0? If none of the new hardware needs 5.0, then I agree that only more 'seasoned' S owners should be, in essence, Beta testers.

The biggest concern TM has is from reports of slow APP connection and the fact 'slow' (I don't think it sounds too slow) wake up from sleep mode.

 

[apacheguy]

@AnOutsider - totally agree, you echoed my sentiment exactly (from another thread):

Shouldn't we start seeing 5.5 start popping up soon? I mean they are delivering EU cars with the firmware and if its good enough for the new Tesla owner then it ought to be good enough for the seasoned veteran. If anything, I would have thought 5.5 would be rolled out to US customers first as a sort of final beta test. I figure it's better to have someone experienced with the car deal with software issues than it is for someone who is sitting behind the wheel for the first time.

Also, there are reports of parking sensors working on 4.5 IIRC.

 

[4SUPER9]

BTW, I am having issues with my parking sensors. They are going off continuously while in stop and go traffic. Not from the car in front of me, but from the cars on either side. I will be contacting TM to discuss.

 

[vfx]

Tow mode is carwash mode...

Tesla Motors representative Patrick Jones explained via email that this is a safety feature in the event that the vehicle operator forgets to put the car in park. Tesla had been aware of this issue as it not only affects taking the car to the carwash, but also makes it impossible to tow the car without someone in the driver seat. The company recently deployed 5.0 software for the vehicle’s computer system which includes a “tow mode” override feature.

 

[TexasEV]

Also, cars parked without charging for a few weeks are possibly being bricked (an S60 would be a 0% SOC in about 3 weeks).

No Tesla Model S is being "bricked". That implies a battery that can not be charged, hence just dead weight like a brick. That was a Roadster phenomenon. Model S batteries can be charged again even if discharged fully. Please do not use the pejorative term "bricked" to refer to a fully discharged battery as that creates a lot of misconception in the lay press.

 

[Super Gizmo]

dirkhh

I agree with the result of your logic (I really want them to get the firmware right).
I'm perplexed that they use many brand new customers who happen to be in Europe or happen to have certain features (PDC, Winter Package) as guinea pigs and don't allow those of us who know their cars and would LIKE to be guinea pigs to test 5.0 as well. But that's a company decision and I can live with it.
What I don't agree with is the last sentence. Vampire drain is a massive issue. ~3kWh a day, 1000kWh a year that's actual cost. Also, cars parked without charging for a few weeks are possibly being bricked (an S60 would be a 0% SOC in about 3 weeks). Also, if you travel and don't have a charger right at the place where you stay (many hotels offer no place to charge) then you'll lose 5% of your charge a day in your S60 - that can cause you to get stranded on your way to the next charger.
So yes, I don't think they should roll out a buggy release, but I also think that vampire drain is much more than just a nuisance. It's a reasonably serious flaw.

+1

 

[dirkhh]

No Tesla Model S is being "bricked". That implies a battery that can not be charged, hence just dead weight like a brick. That was a Roadster phenomenon. Model S batteries can be charged again even if discharged fully. Please do not use the pejorative term "bricked" to refer to a fully discharged battery as that creates a lot of misconception in the lay press.

Thanks for the lecture, much appreciated.

Please also talk to the technician in my local service center that I talked to when picking up my car that he shouldn't call the Tesla Model S they had sitting there for a battery replacement "bricked" but that he should use a more press friendly positive way to describe the state of the battery of the car that the owner had left unplugged for 31 days while out of the country and that subsequently wouldn't accept a charge. I'm sure he'll appreciate the help.

 

[tomas]

I agree with the result of your logic (I really want them to get the firmware right).
I'm perplexed that they use many brand new customers who happen to be in Europe or happen to have certain features (PDC, Winter Package) as guinea pigs and don't allow those of us who know their cars and would LIKE to be guinea pigs to test 5.0 as well. But that's a company decision and I can live with it.
What I don't agree with is the last sentence. Vampire drain is a massive issue. ~3kWh a day, 1000kWh a year that's actual cost. Also, cars parked without charging for a few weeks are possibly being bricked (an S60 would be a 0% SOC in about 3 weeks). Also, if you travel and don't have a charger right at the place where you stay (many hotels offer no place to charge) then you'll lose 5% of your charge a day in your S60 - that can cause you to get stranded on your way to the next charger.
So yes, I don't think they should roll out a buggy release, but I also think that vampire drain is much more than just a nuisance. It's a reasonably serious flaw.

1) +1 on the admonishment about using word "bricked". No evidence a Model S has EVER been rendered unable to charge due to depletion, and that's what "bricked" means.
2) You do not lose 5% per day. I defy anyone to show logs demonstrating that. I've had 10 months and 9k miles of experience now, and it just ain't that much. More like 2 or 3%, and as I understand it, car shuts down all usage if you hit the reserve.
3) I have yet to go to a hotel or resort that cannot give me access to a 110 outlet within 50 feet of a parking place. I carry a 15 amp rated extension cord (yes, I know not recommended, but I think that's just to keep idiots from using the walgreens lamp extension), and my tesla-issue 110 plug adapter. If you plug in, you not only won't lose anything, but will typically gain ~45 miles overnight.

I know there are a lot of people exorcized about vampire drain, and even though I am not one of them, it's their right to pick their priorities. But, I gotta say, we all HAVE to be patient and let Tesla work away at delicate issues like power management. Tesla has shown that, in most cases, they ARE listening and working on the right things, and they are using judgement in how aggressively to roll out software. As I have said before, just chill, crank up some tunes you like, and take the best car in the world for a vigorous spin. Repeat daily until you get 5.0, 5.5, or whatever it is that sorts out sleep mode. Oh, and bring an extension cord if you are going anywhere overnight.

 

[dirkhh]

1) +1 on the admonishment about using word "bricked". No evidence a Model S has EVER been rendered unable to charge due to depletion, and that's what "bricked" means.

See my earlier response. Thanks for the admonishment but I stood next to a "bricked" (the words of the Tesla employee, not mine) car the day I took possession of mine

2) You do not lose 5% per day. I defy anyone to show logs demonstrating that. I've had 10 months and 9k miles of experience now, and it just ain't that much. More like 2 or 3%, and as I understand it, car shuts down all usage if you hit the reserve.

I have about six weeks of telemetry data that show that I lose on average 3kWh a day - with a 60kWh battery that comes out to about 5% a day.
I appreciate the convictions with which you state what you believe to be true... but I happen to have data to support what I say...

3) I have yet to go to a hotel or resort that cannot give me access to a 110 outlet within 50 feet of a parking place. I carry a 15 amp rated extension cord (yes, I know not recommended, but I think that's just to keep idiots from using the walgreens lamp extension), and my tesla-issue 110 plug adapter. If you plug in, you not only won't lose anything, but will typically gain ~45 miles overnight.

Interesting statement. Given how many posts we have here about people struggling to find hotels where they can charge I am surprised by it, but I haven't gone out to look for specific examples. My guess would be that there are a fair number of rural hotels that will not let you charge, period (there was a thread about this on the teslamotors forum a while ago - the Model S owner was actually evicted from the property when he tried to charge from an outlet with an extension cord).

I know there are a lot of people exorcized about vampire drain, and even though I am not one of them, it's their right to pick their priorities. But, I gotta say, we all HAVE to be patient and let Tesla work away at delicate issues like power management. Tesla has shown that, in most cases, they ARE listening and working on the right things, and they are using judgement in how aggressively to roll out software. As I have said before, just chill, crank up some tunes you like, and take the best car in the world for a vigorous spin. Repeat daily until you get 5.0, 5.5, or whatever it is that sorts out sleep mode. Oh, and bring an extension cord if you are going anywhere overnight.

ex·or·cise
ˈeksôrˌsīz,ˈeksər-/
verb; past tense: exorcised; past participle: exorcised
1. drive out or attempt to drive out (an evil spirit) from a person or place.

Not sure that describes the state people are in, but maybe you meant 'excited'?
I'm not getting all that excited about it. I know they are working on it, I see progress towards it being fixed. I simply argue about people calling it a 'non-issue'.

 

[bsd]

I picked up my S85 on Sep 7 and it has 1.35.98 installed. I didn't change my order for the new features like parking sensors, or cold weather package.

 

[tomas]

exorcized - e.g., trying to expel the evil spirit of vampire drain.

I guess there's always the guy who buys an electric car and leaves it unplugged while he goes to Europe for a month, sigh. Maybe he should also be exorcized, but I'd say he's not evil - just stupid.

If you have logs, I'll give you 5%. Just plug in more often and it will go away.

And the guy who goes to the Bates motel without calling first. I guess my experience has been that if I plan my trip and call ahead, never a problem. I haven't been watching those threads about problems finding hotels to charge. I'm living in blissful ignorance.

 

[SFOTurtle]

I picked up my S85 on Sep 7 and it has 1.35.98 installed. I didn't change my order for the new features like parking sensors, or cold weather package.

View attachment 30442

In other words, you do not have parking sensors or cold weather package but have 5.0. Good to know. That hopefully means they're getting more confident in the release. And congrats on picking up the new car!

 

[dirkhh]

exorcized - e.g., trying to expel the evil spirit of vampire drain.

I guess there's always the guy who buys an electric car and leaves it unplugged while he goes to Europe for a month, sigh. Maybe he should also be exorcized, but I'd say he's not evil - just stupid.

If you have logs, I'll give you 5%. Just plug in more often and it will go away.

And the guy who goes to the Bates motel without calling first. I guess my experience has been that if I plan my trip and call ahead, never a problem. I haven't been watching those threads about problems finding hotels to charge. I'm living in blissful ignorance.

So in summary, we agree, we just phrase things differently

I usually plug in every night (I didn't for a couple of days specifically because I was curious if I could measure vampire drain) - and I agree that with very little planning you can indeed find a hotel where you can charge (Downtown Seattle apparently is challenging for that). And yes, the person keeping their Tesla unplugged... /eyeroll/.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I asked to be put on the list of cars that are given pre-release and beta versions before everyone else. I was told that they have enough already and are not accepting new vehicles into the early software testing program. Oh well.

 

[Kraken]

Got a loaner today that has 5.0 installed. Cool to see/use. It doesn't have parking sensors (even though i asked for them to see them first hand) or cold wether package and the vin is in the 18000s... Almost 6000 more than mine in less than 3 months!!!

anyway, I really want 5.0 and asked if they could add it while my car is in for service, we'll see. I couldn't care less about the vampire drain, so I hope they get an option out soon to turn the sleep mode off. I think when I let my car sit for 2 days to get the windows tinted I lost 11 miles the first day (so under 5%) but the second day was only about 5 miles of loss (so your 5% a day only happens if you are also using the car daily.... not if you are letting it sit). overall this is Really minimal, and would require way more than 31 days to lose a full battery worth unless already partially drained (in which case the guy was really setting himself up for failure).

I have noticed that when I get out to the car, I now have about 10 less miles of range than I did 2 months ago. I've been losing about 4 miles a month. I don't know if the is the car adapting to my driving style, vampire loss, or if the battery has really lost 4% in 4000 miles, so it would nice to be ale to turn sleep mode on at some times, but I definitely wouldn't want it on all the time. Of course even better would be instant wake up...


Other interesting things about the loaner are that it specifically says not to use maps or Internet radio. granted the service guys were using both. with only 150 miles on it which is about the distance from factory to service center to my office, I'm likely the first non tesla employee to drive it. the service center also opened just last week. i think this is likely because they are close to releasing the 3G payment plans.

 

[FlasherZ]

Other interesting things about the loaner are that it specifically says not to use maps or Internet radio. granted the service guys were using both. with only 150 miles on it which is about the distance from factory to service center to my office, I'm likely the first non tesla employee to drive it. the service center also opened just last week. i think this is likely because they are close to releasing the 3G payment plans.

The maps / Internet radio is a standard warning put on the car in the factory, reminding the testers not to access those functions during the test cycles.

 

[dirkhh]

The maps / Internet radio is a standard warning put on the car in the factory, reminding the testers not to access those functions during the test cycles.

But why?

 

[FlasherZ]

But why?

So that they don't have to do a reinitialization, I suppose. They want the radio history and map history to be fresh for the consumer.