Then adjust your driving style for pete's sake! I have no problem driving aggressively while not touching the brakes. It isn't that hard. Just takes some attention paid to what you and the car is doing.
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Firmware 5.8
- Thread starter Lloyd
- Start date
Then adjust your driving style for pete's sake! I have no problem driving aggressively while not touching the brakes. It isn't that hard. Just takes some attention paid to what you and the car is doing.
OK, let's connect some dots. NHTSA complaints re MS (that I know of):
1) Rear tire wear.
2) 2 road debris incidents
3) a single "unintended acceleration" incident (which everyone knows is usually a driver too proud to admit he/she mashed the wrong pedal)
Release 5.8:
* Revisions to suspension settings addresses 1 and 2 above
* Revisions to acceleration mapping addresses 3
If you are going to have a release intended (among other things) to mitigate an inquiry, you would address all outstanding complaints.
Not sure why the regen change, probably learnings about battery maintenance.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
It's certainly possible given your experience level particularly with respect to cold weather driving. Subtle or not (I'm still not even close to that description:smile
my personal preference would be the "new" regen when turning off the cruise control, and the "old" regen for everything else.In any case: still loving my car, and still literally amazed that we can even be discussing how our vehicle performance has changed due to an over the air update. Way cool for an old fart like me!
DFibRL8R
Active Member
Maybe this has been posted in this thread already but since upgrading to version 5.6 and then 5.8, it seems like the view of the car on the screen when you touch the "T" is now different and the brake light is no longer visible when using regen or the brake? Anyone else notice this?
To me, it is inexcusable for Tesla to change the actual driving characteristics of the car in an update, and be totally silent about said changes. I just don't get it. If it's important to give us release notes regarding changes in how you access the radio, it would seem it wouldn't be too much to ask for a discussion on what they've done to change regen/accerator profiles/height changes and what driving characteristics might be affected, etc. Almost as if they don't know they're making the changes until after the roll-out.
Interesting discussion about the regen changes.
My impression is that only the "curve" has been adjusted, but the endpoints are the same... that is you still start at zero regen at the moment you lift of the accelerator, and still max out at 60KW of regen power. What it feels to me is that the initial ramp-up rate has been tamed some. If I had to characterize it, the climb from 0KW regen to the first 15KW or so has been flattened slightly.. lessening the abrupt transition when you let off the accelerator or cancel cruise control.
I'd guess the total area "under the regen curve" I slightly less now, which probably does translate to slightly less total regen for any given stop, but it feels on the order of a couple of percentage points different to me... which might translate to a couple of feet for long stop.
What's interesting is the clear divide amongst folks who feel that it makes a significant difference I the need to use the traditional friction brakes. I suspect this may have to do with personal habit or circumstances some. I'd guess that if you tend to follow closer, and therefore that first short period of braking time is critical to avoid rear-ending the person in front of you, this change has a greater impact on your driving style.
Whereas if you are the type of person who manages to leave enough room for whom you typically ended up "exhausting" the full capability of the regen to bring you down to near 0MPH before a collision than the slight change in overall regenerative braking force isn't a big deal. I've typically "modulated" that transition by backing off the acceleration a tad gradually rather than typically "dumping it", so I'm accustomed to it already.
I like the smoother transition. But I've always wanted greater regen at the "top end" of the car's curve anyway. So perhaps Tesla could consider keeping the new gentler curve, but augment it by allowing it to climb up to 80-90KW of regen power. That would allow smooth transitions at the bottom end, but ultimately allow for a greater amount of regenerative force "under the curve" for when needed. As always, you can modulate how much you use by how aggressively you back off the accelerator pedal.
My impression is that only the "curve" has been adjusted, but the endpoints are the same... that is you still start at zero regen at the moment you lift of the accelerator, and still max out at 60KW of regen power. What it feels to me is that the initial ramp-up rate has been tamed some. If I had to characterize it, the climb from 0KW regen to the first 15KW or so has been flattened slightly.. lessening the abrupt transition when you let off the accelerator or cancel cruise control.
I'd guess the total area "under the regen curve" I slightly less now, which probably does translate to slightly less total regen for any given stop, but it feels on the order of a couple of percentage points different to me... which might translate to a couple of feet for long stop.
What's interesting is the clear divide amongst folks who feel that it makes a significant difference I the need to use the traditional friction brakes. I suspect this may have to do with personal habit or circumstances some. I'd guess that if you tend to follow closer, and therefore that first short period of braking time is critical to avoid rear-ending the person in front of you, this change has a greater impact on your driving style.
Whereas if you are the type of person who manages to leave enough room for whom you typically ended up "exhausting" the full capability of the regen to bring you down to near 0MPH before a collision than the slight change in overall regenerative braking force isn't a big deal. I've typically "modulated" that transition by backing off the acceleration a tad gradually rather than typically "dumping it", so I'm accustomed to it already.
I like the smoother transition. But I've always wanted greater regen at the "top end" of the car's curve anyway. So perhaps Tesla could consider keeping the new gentler curve, but augment it by allowing it to climb up to 80-90KW of regen power. That would allow smooth transitions at the bottom end, but ultimately allow for a greater amount of regenerative force "under the curve" for when needed. As always, you can modulate how much you use by how aggressively you back off the accelerator pedal.
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steve841
Active Member
My personal take on the regen .... should have just added another setting to the regen options ....
mknox
Well-Known Member
I suspect you don't have this problem in AZ, but up north, getting used to different re-gen characteristics can be a daily or even drive to drive experience with the cold and the varying degrees of limitation subsequently imposed. And as you drive, the characteristics even change while underway as the battery warms up.
I wonder if us northerners are just more used to changes in re-gen characteristics and it bothers us less???
Regarding the "regen changes in 5.8"...
1. I think this warrants its own thread. I'm surprised the moderators haven't separated it out yet.
2. For those offering data and opinions on the regen experience (in 5.8), please list the ambient temperature in your posts.
3. For those in 60+ F weather (today, not a month ago) I'd like to hear what you have to say about the regen experience in 5.8 as so far it really seems like a weather-correlated change in experience rather than a firmware one.
1. I think this warrants its own thread. I'm surprised the moderators haven't separated it out yet.
2. For those offering data and opinions on the regen experience (in 5.8), please list the ambient temperature in your posts.
3. For those in 60+ F weather (today, not a month ago) I'd like to hear what you have to say about the regen experience in 5.8 as so far it really seems like a weather-correlated change in experience rather than a firmware one.
Agree...they could have added an option/renamed the prior.
they could call the prior "normal" "Aggressive"
The new "Smooth", and leave the old "Low" as "Low" Similar to the 3 steering modes.
I suspect they thought everyone would like the less abrupt engagement, but clearly once people get used to something many don't like to change, or at least they don't like to be forced to change.
Yes, I agree we need a dedicated thread.
Actually, the first time I drove with 5.8 was over the weekend in sunny, warm SoCal ~70 F and I noticed the change immediately. This is absolutely a firmware driven change.
To me, it is inexcusable for Tesla to change the actual driving characteristics of the car in an update, and be totally silent about said changes. I just don't get it. If it's important to give us release notes regarding changes in how you access the radio, it would seem it wouldn't be too much to ask for a discussion on what they've done to change regen/accerator profiles/height changes and what driving characteristics might be affected, etc. Almost as if they don't know they're making the changes until after the roll-out.
A big +1. Had we known beforehand, query how many drivers would have been so open to allowing the new version. I certainly will not call it an "upgrade" coming from 5.6, which, along with 5.0 (the version I started with), already had a lot of the items I liked (e.g., map heading-up configuration, screen cleaning mode, wi-fi, etc.) listed in the 5.8 release notes. In my opinion, the way Tesla communicated 5.8 was misleading to say the least; and 5.8 coming from 5.6 is a downgrade.
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I seem to be seeing some improvement in energy consumption with 5.8 - the change in the regen could be the difference, and that's an improvement despite the loss of "low" suspension mode in 5.8.
I agree though with the comments that Tesla should provide flexibility to select driving modes through settings.
For those driving long distances at highway speeds - a "range" driving mode might help to increase the range by adjusting both the regen and cruise control algorithms to be less aggressive and conserve energy. Even a 3-5% improvement would help provide more cushion for trip planning.
I agree though with the comments that Tesla should provide flexibility to select driving modes through settings.
For those driving long distances at highway speeds - a "range" driving mode might help to increase the range by adjusting both the regen and cruise control algorithms to be less aggressive and conserve energy. Even a 3-5% improvement would help provide more cushion for trip planning.
It could be. In the 3+ months I've had my P85, my driving experiences as far as regen and acceleration has been the same until 5.x rolled out.
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Knowing how it was, makes it even worse. If it was my first drive in a Model S, probably not a big deal. My other take is that it takes the P out of my P85. The jolting acceleration with little effort on the pedal was one of my favorite aspects in driving this vehicle. Yes, I may be the minority...but taking away how the car drives without an option to go back was a horrible idea.
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Yes, it can be done....but prior to this release everyone was already comfortable with how to operate their Model S. It is not ok to change that with NO notice.
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To me, it is inexcusable for Tesla to change the actual driving characteristics of the car in an update, and be totally silent about said changes. I just don't get it. If it's important to give us release notes regarding changes in how you access the radio, it would seem it wouldn't be too much to ask for a discussion on what they've done to change regen/accerator profiles/height changes and what driving characteristics might be affected, etc. Almost as if they don't know they're making the changes until after the roll-out.
Exactly. Couldn't agree more. To me, they still haven't communicated why these changes were implemented. The ride height yes, but nothing else. The only response I get is "a future update will bring them back". Not even close to OK.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I don't believe so, unless the re-gen characteristics are altered without any sort of driver notification like the dashed limit line that shows up. Where I am today, it warmed up a bit to the high 40's, but I started out this morning with the pack still charging (had been for hours) and the cabin pre-heated. There was NO re-gen limit line on the dash, yet I could perceive the less aggressive kick-in when you suddenly drop the accelerator. I still would get the full amount of re-gen with no limitation there. To me, it's subtle. I didn't even notice it until I started paying attention to this thread. I prefer the new behavior.
This is the same thing I am seeing. One additional data point I have is that it "seemed" like regen is limited to ~45 without a line when soaked at around 50F. After driving for a bit that goes away though.
mknox
Well-Known Member
For me, whenever the re-gen limit line is shown, I can not get any closer than 5 kW to the line. When the re-gen line is at 5 kW, my car will freely coast when I take my foot off the "gas". If the line is at 40 kW, the most I get is 35 and so forth. In that vein, I guess it is possible that there could be a limit at 60 which doesn't show up on the display and you would actually get something less than that. I'll have to keep an eye out for that, although 50F is starting to become a distant memory around here!
Bugeater
Member
In the silicon valley it hasn't dropped below upper 40s at night and is in the 60s during the early pm. Only say a limit line once or twice so far. My wife leaves early in the am so may have seen the limit lines more often. I always feather the accelerator myself, so the new regen isn't usually a big deal, but I really would like the option to have it. Also, I don't tailgate. Especially not in my S. But the new regen HAS changed how I drive it in a way I don't like.
Also I strongly disagree with one reply to my earlier post. Long ago when I was learning to drive they told about the stages of emergency braking. First a hazard appears. Then you see it. Next you react and take your foot off the accelerator. And then you hit the brakes. Finally you stop. Each stage BEFORE the brakes varies from individual to individual. It's called reaction time. Mine is not the best, but is pretty good. But whoever you are, the time it takes to go from the accelerator to the brake is real AND significant in the overall braking distance.
It would be really good to have this as an option. Not just one size fits all! It would also be nice to hear from Tesla the reason why.
Also I strongly disagree with one reply to my earlier post. Long ago when I was learning to drive they told about the stages of emergency braking. First a hazard appears. Then you see it. Next you react and take your foot off the accelerator. And then you hit the brakes. Finally you stop. Each stage BEFORE the brakes varies from individual to individual. It's called reaction time. Mine is not the best, but is pretty good. But whoever you are, the time it takes to go from the accelerator to the brake is real AND significant in the overall braking distance.
It would be really good to have this as an option. Not just one size fits all! It would also be nice to hear from Tesla the reason why.
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