Firmware 6.2

[hbouw]

I really like the idea of attempting to end range anxiety through this newly implemented warning mechanism that'll "prevent" you from going out of range of a charging station. I think the implementation of it can definitely be improved though.

1) If it has an algorithm to permanently estimate the range remaining based on driving conditions, weather, traffic, etc. then why is there no option to display *that* "real" range in the odometer rather than the "rated range"? That would be *much* more useful, especially when in trip mode (as it'll then be even more precise as it e.g. knows altitude differences). Doesn't the fact that (at least for many of us) the "rated range" displayed is too optimistic add to possible range anxiety?

2) If it keeps a list of (super) chargers in 6.2 that are in that "real" range, why can't we see whch nearby superchargers are considered to be in range and which are out of range? I think that would help lower any range anxiety also.

3) Also, does anyone know whether the "in range" chargers would contain superchargers only, or also destination chargers and others? I live close by a supercharger so there's no easy way for me to test this warning mechanism without going for a long drive or running my car to a low SOC. How do I know I can trust it without 1) and 2) above being implemented?

just some ideas for improvement. Overall, I love my Model S!!

 

[wk057]

I really like the idea of attempting to end range anxiety through this newly implemented warning mechanism that'll "prevent" you from going out of range of a charging station. I think the implementation of it can definitely be improved though.

1) If it has an algorithm to permanently estimate the range remaining based on driving conditions, weather, traffic, etc. then why is there no option to display *that* "real" range in the odometer rather than the "rated range"? That would be *much* more useful, especially when in trip mode (as it'll then be even more precise as it e.g. knows altitude differences). Doesn't the fact that (at least for many of us) the "rated range" displayed is too optimistic add to possible range anxiety?

2) If it keeps a list of (super) chargers in 6.2 that are in that "real" range, why can't we see whch nearby superchargers are considered to be in range and which are out of range? I think that would help lower any range anxiety also.

3) Also, does anyone know whether the "in range" chargers would contain superchargers only, or also destination chargers and others? I live close by a supercharger so there's no easy way for me to test this warning mechanism without going for a long drive or running my car to a low SOC. How do I know I can trust it without 1) and 2) above being implemented?

just some ideas for improvement. Overall, I love my Model S!!

Keep in mind that "real" range is highly dependent on the route. So if the car doesn't know the destination, it doesn't know the route, and can't give you the "real" range number.

I think what the map should show is a bubble around the current position of everywhere I can make it to. It won't be a perfect bubble. If the bubble extended into some mountains, for example, that part of the bubble wouldn't be as far out. So it would basically look like a scribbled outline around the position that shows everywhere you can make it with the energy you have. A second inner bubble could indicate everywhere you can make it to and back (round trip).

This seems like it would be more useful than anything currently done for eliminating range anxiety. Destination in the bubble? Yay! Not? boo...

 

[Ugliest1]

...but even if I overtake with forceful pedal she audibly gasps.

You get a gasp? Mine squeaks. Sometimes in a slightly profane manner.

 

[billarnett]

Keep in mind that "real" range is highly dependent on the route. So if the car doesn't know the destination, it doesn't know the route, and can't give you the "real" range number.

I think what the map should show is a bubble around the current position of everywhere I can make it to. It won't be a perfect bubble. If the bubble extended into some mountains, for example, that part of the bubble wouldn't be as far out. So it would basically look like a scribbled outline around the position that shows everywhere you can make it with the energy you have. A second inner bubble could indicate everywhere you can make it to and back (round trip).

This seems like it would be more useful than anything currently done for eliminating range anxiety. Destination in the bubble? Yay! Not? boo...

I like that idea. It would be fairly expensive to compute, though. But I guess it doesn't have to be updated very often.

If there's a supercharger inside the bubble then the bubble could be extended. And if there's a supercharger inside the extended bubble...

 

[cgiGuy]

If there's a supercharger inside the bubble then the bubble could be extended. And if there's a supercharger inside the extended bubble...

Then you would just have this bubble on your map all the time. Sorry, Arkansas.

 

[benjiejr]

I've noticed 2 strange bugs that may be associated with 6.2:

1. I got in the car this morning and as I pulled out I noticed a large water puddle under the car. I'm pretty sure it's from the air conditioner running overnight. I know that the car was locked and I don't precondition the car so not sure why it would be running. (At least I hope that's what the water is from!)

2. I've noticed the windows roll down slightly - maybe twice as much as when you open the door - and stay down. This has happened on 2 separate occasions recently on doors that were not opened. I think it's happening when I open another door and I just happen to notice the window on another door down a bit.

Anyone else having this strange behavior?

 

[Kalud]

I've noticed 2 strange bugs that may be associated with 6.2:

1. I got in the car this morning and as I pulled out I noticed a large water puddle under the car. I'm pretty sure it's from the air conditioner running overnight. I know that the car was locked and I don't precondition the car so not sure why it would be running. (At least I hope that's what the water is from!)

Do do you have smart preconditioning active? If so, I found it starting climate at wrong times often. Could also be during charging, where the AC is activated to cool down the battery.

 

[benjiejr]

Do do you have smart preconditioning active? If so, I found it starting climate at wrong times often. Could also be during charging, where the AC is activated to cool down the battery.

No, I haven't been using the preconditioning.

 

[drsaab]

So on a trip I went out of range of a supercharger for a round trip return and the car warned me 2 times that I will be out of charging range. Once with a yellow exclamation on the lightning bolt icon on the map then a red one. It also brought up a warning on the dash that you had to click on to dismiss or reroute.

 

[Kalud]

No, I haven't been using the preconditioning.

Then it must be AC while charging, if its water...

 

[tomas]

So on a trip I went out of range of a supercharger for a round trip return and the car warned me 2 times that I will be out of charging range. Once with a yellow exclamation on the lightning bolt icon on the map then a red one. It also brought up a warning on the dash that you had to click on to dismiss or reroute.

Yikes, I think this thing is going to actually INCREASE range anxiety!

 

[Danal]

I've noticed 2 strange bugs that may be associated with 6.2:

1. I got in the car this morning and as I pulled out I noticed a large water puddle under the car. I'm pretty sure it's from the air conditioner running overnight. I know that the car was locked and I don't precondition the car so not sure why it would be running. (At least I hope that's what the water is from!)

I've had this "water when I know of no reason for AC to be on" before 6.2. And with 6.2.

I do attribute it to battery cooling; I can't prove that.

 

[dirkhh]

Keep in mind that "real" range is highly dependent on the route. So if the car doesn't know the destination, it doesn't know the route, and can't give you the "real" range number.

I think what the map should show is a bubble around the current position of everywhere I can make it to. It won't be a perfect bubble. If the bubble extended into some mountains, for example, that part of the bubble wouldn't be as far out. So it would basically look like a scribbled outline around the position that shows everywhere you can make it with the energy you have. A second inner bubble could indicate everywhere you can make it to and back (round trip).

This seems like it would be more useful than anything currently done for eliminating range anxiety. Destination in the bubble? Yay! Not? boo...

I really like that idea. Compute intensive, but that could be addressed with a smart algorithm that only updates the edges. Our Nissan Leaf has a very very simplistic version of that - but the Tesla could do that so much better...

 

[wk057]

I really like that idea. Compute intensive, but that could be addressed with a smart algorithm that only updates the edges. Our Nissan Leaf has a very very simplistic version of that - but the Tesla could do that so much better...

I actually went ahead and sent the suggestion over to Tesla. *shrugs* Who knows if they'll do anything with it or not.

 

[Cottonwood]

I've had this "water when I know of no reason for AC to be on" before 6.2. And with 6.2.

I do attribute it to battery cooling; I can't prove that.

Remember that water gets produced in an air conditioner when the air being cooled passed over the "cold" coils; when the air in contact with the "cold" coils is below its dew point, water condenses onto the "cold" coils.

If the heat pump is used to cool the battery pack, then all of the cooling is done through a liquid cooling loop and there is no place for water to be produced. The only way for water to be produced is if air is being chilled below its dew point. (e.g. the cabin air)

Normal air conditioner or heat pump terminology refers to the evaporator coil and condenser coil. That is referring to the evaporation and condensation of the refrigerant. I find it easier to call the evaporator coil, the "cold" coil, and the condenser coil, the "hot" coil.

 

[hbouw]

Keep in mind that "real" range is highly dependent on the route. So if the car doesn't know the destination, it doesn't know the route, and can't give you the "real" range number.

Agree. However, even if the car doesn't know the destination, I think it can do a better job at estimating the range than the "rated range". It can still factor in things like weather (at least temperature) and past average Wh/mile.

I like your bubble idea. Not sure how easy it is to implement though given the many routes that would need to be computed? I'm guessing the way it currently works us that it only considers routes to (super)chargers. It can the simply "dismiss" any for which the line of sight distance is already larger than the rated range as those can never be reached leaving only a few routes to be computed.

- - - Updated - - -

So on a trip I went out of range of a supercharger for a round trip return and the car warned me 2 times that I will be out of charging range. Once with a yellow exclamation on the lightning bolt icon on the map then a red one. It also brought up a warning on the dash that you had to click on to dismiss or reroute.

So that would mean the algorithm only considers superchargers? If so, then I think it did the right thing warning you. And you of course did the right thing dismissing it... :wink:

I personally prefer the the algorihtm to consider superchargers only as many other chargers have many "strings attached".

 

[apacheguy]

I actually went ahead and sent the suggestion over to Tesla. *shrugs* Who knows if they'll do anything with it or not.

Nice idea but probably difficult to implement. I also question the utility of the tool for the average owner. If one is that concerned about range to pull up a bubble map, why not simply set the destination in the Nav and get an answer?

 

[brianman]

Keep in mind that "real" range is highly dependent on the route. So if the car doesn't know the destination, it doesn't know the route, and can't give you the "real" range number.

I think what the map should show is a bubble around the current position of everywhere I can make it to. It won't be a perfect bubble. If the bubble extended into some mountains, for example, that part of the bubble wouldn't be as far out. So it would basically look like a scribbled outline around the position that shows everywhere you can make it with the energy you have. A second inner bubble could indicate everywhere you can make it to and back (round trip).

This seems like it would be more useful than anything currently done for eliminating range anxiety. Destination in the bubble? Yay! Not? boo...

Now that the browser has GPS support, it's tempting to make this as a web page.

 

[jvonbokel]

No because you can have a trip that doesn't work in reverse. For instance, if the last leg of your trip is 150 miles from the Supercharger, you don't have enough range to get back to that Supercharger to get back home. There are also less extreme cases where the trip is possible, but the Tesla's charging guidance won't be long enough for your round trip needs.

Obviously with proper planning this is mitigable, but given how spotty destination charging is in 2015, this seems like something that should be baked into the product.

Which makes me wonder, if you're driving 150mi from a Supercharger to your destination, knowing you have charging access there, isn't the car going to warn you that you don't have enough range to make it back to that Supercharger? I suppose if you've been to that destination before, it will have a record of it, and won't warn you unless you're out of range of your destination.

I think what the map should show is a bubble around the current position of everywhere I can make it to. It won't be a perfect bubble. If the bubble extended into some mountains, for example, that part of the bubble wouldn't be as far out. So it would basically look like a scribbled outline around the position that shows everywhere you can make it with the energy you have. A second inner bubble could indicate everywhere you can make it to and back (round trip).

This seems like it would be more useful than anything currently done for eliminating range anxiety. Destination in the bubble? Yay! Not? boo...

Software that does this exists, but it's not cheap. I wish Tesla would at least use it for their online Supercharger maps, instead of drawing somewhat arbitrary fixed radius circles around Superchargers.

Personally, I think what they need to do is start drawing a yellow and/or red line on the energy consumption graph that represents what average usage you need to stay below in order to make your destination. This may be misleading, however, if you've got a steep incline in the latter half of your route, as it will be accounting for that in the average, but the average driver may not be anticipating the increase in consumption.

 

[dirkhh]

Agree. However, even if the car doesn't know the destination, I think it can do a better job at estimating the range than the "rated range". It can still factor in things like weather (at least temperature) and past average Wh/mile.

So I'll admit that I vehemently disagree with that. The Leaf has this guess-o-meter that factors in "whatever" in the range it displays. That is the single biggest source of range anxiety there is. The rated range miles have a well defined meaning. If I want random guesses based on the last n miles I'll just bring up the energy app and look at its projected range.

- - - Updated - - -

Now that the browser has GPS support, it's tempting to make this as a web page.

The problem is that it's hard to tell the web page what your SOC is. I tried this back when I was working on the REST API tools. But with the changes to the way they run that API I don't think that's feasible anymore.