I did not expect the performance (0 to 60 or top speed) of my almost two year old S to be improved by V7, nor did Tesla specifically state that it would be.
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Firmware 7.0 - For Classic Model S
- Thread starter malcolm
- Start date
bareyb
Active Member
I don't recall that my Car ever had any numerical readouts for Tire Pressure. Just a warning light. Does this update do anything to change that for me? I assume I'll still just have the Warning Light as I always have?
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Problem with that is I'm nearly certain that autopilot cars shipped with -M or possibly even earlier revs. Not all AP cars have this so called "version 2" DU. I'm scratching my head wondering what outside of the DU the perf boost relies on.
I believe you are misinterpreting the criticism from classic owners. None of us are dissatisfied with our non-AP capable cars. Instead, we are concerned with senseless changes like prioritizing a car icon and the odometer (both secondary) over the battery gauge (definitely primary in any EV).
Id be more OK with a firm honest answer than ambiguous speculation. Especially considering the tweet and the beta notes led P/S85 owners into thinking they were getting some love.
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I did based on what Elon said.
steve841
Active Member
Yeah, I specifically recall reading a blurb from some release notes saying that RWD cars would get an acceleration performance bump at higher speeds. So, for me, Im left with an additional disappointment.
SeminoleFSU
Voluntaryist
Good points. It's pretty amazing the vehicle keeps changing via software upgrades for free. We should be thankful. I'm sure at some point in the future all cars will do this, but until then we should try and enjoy having one of the few that pushes the envelope in this area!
Dear Elon:
PLEASE go to your chief U/I designer's office, turn his desk so it's facing the window, have the blinds removed so the sun shines on his computer screen. Then put glasses on his head that give him the equivalent of 20/40 vision (the minimum to legally drive). Sit him down in front of his U/I design to read the screens and tell you the following:
1) What time is it? In what time zone?
2) What is the current rated range?
3) How many miles remaining to your destination? To your next turn?
4) How many miles of range will you have in reserve when you get there?
5) What is the current outside temperature and how will it affect your range reserve?
6) What is the state of the heating/AC system and how is it affecting your range?
7) Can you skip the nearest SC and make it to the next one at your current state of charge?
8) What speed can you maintain to get to your destination with a buffer of 30 miles? 15 miles?
These are the questions we ask ourselves when we take long trips in the Tesla. We do it every 15 minutes or so. Please encourage your designer to consider how these displays are used in real-life scenarios, and test how easy it is to see and read them in real-life conditions.
Ask your designer why it was so painfully difficult to gather all this information in one's head in version 6 U/I, and then ask him why it is in fact more difficult to do so in V7. Why is he so determined to waste the three critical resources available to him as a U/I designer, those being: 1) screen acreage; 2) color and contrast; 3) organization of information.
Let's consider how these resources are used in the current design.
In the center of the primary display we have large swaths of tasteful gray screen containing nothing, surrounding an exciting analog speedometer and power display which in turn surround a digital speedometer and a nice midget car. The analog speedo and power displays are all colorful and contrasty, but since the labelling is at such low contrast that it's almost impossible to read on a sunny day, and the MPH doesn't even have 5MPH tick marks, these are largely useless. Entertaining, yes. Distracting even, since they are the highest contrast and most colorful things on the screen. But useless. The car icon in the exact center of your field of view is also large, colorful and high contrast. Also useless. (Even more useless if you happen to have a red car which hides the brake lights). The car icon is actively hostile at night, since the big bright blob of headlights distracts attention from the speed display. (I recognize this paragraph is irrelevant for Autopilot-capable cars, but this is after all the "Classic Model S" thread.)
The only useful thing in the center of the screen is the digital speedometer, which takes up maybe 10% of that center area. So 90% of the most crucial screen real estate available in the car, the part where the drivers attention goes when it's not on the road, seems to be dedicated to distracting the driver rather than informing him/her.
In the V6 U/I design, at least some of the important information was available easily on the main display: range in the center and highly visible, time of day on the bottom (but small font, difficult to read). Now in V7, range is relegated to the bottom line. Time is only visible on the 17" display (on the far right far away from the driver), the font is too small for those with less than average visual acuity, made worse by the decision to cram a passenger airbag status message underneath.
Meanwhile, the rest of the important information remains scattered to the far corners of the earth.
* Miles to destination? Time to destination? These are at the bottom of the map display in an unreadable font size at low contrast.
* Heating/AC status? No longer visible without bringing up climate page.
* Miles of reserve range at destination? You would think the energy page would be able to show that. But it ignores the display selection for miles range vs. percent charge. Multiply by 2.65 in your head (YMMV).
* Effect of the heat/AC on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of the outside temperature on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of speed on range? Well, I suppose you can change speed, then go to the energy page and wait 10 minutes for the estimated charge at destination to change.
Misuse of screen acreage is pervasive in the U/I.
* The analog clock widget wastes a third of the screen to show two numbers: time and temperature.
* The energy widget uses a third of the screen to paint a colorful graph, but shows only one marginally useful result: Wh/mi, not even the far more useful number: estimated range at this average energy usage.
* The energy page on the 17" needs two sub-pages to deliver only three numbers: average Wh/mi, estimated range, and predicted percent charge at destination.
* The media page has large buttons to select songs from USB or Bluetooth devices, but can't be bothered to wrap the names of long songs to two or three lines in the ample space available.
Might we ask that the energy widget be scrapped and replaced with a text-only "energy status" widget containing the following:
* Battery rated range and percent charge
* Trip miles and time to destination
* Estimated rated miles and percent charge at destination (taking into account altitude, temperature, weather, A/C)
* Outside and inside temperature
* Range reduction because of temperature and A/C usage
* Current time (including time zone), date, and altitude MSL
* All relevant numbers to be color coded yellow, red as they become problematic.
While we're at it, let's make the tire pressure widget more useful:
* Remove the car icon entirely from the speedo screen, transfer all functionality to the widget (it's a bigger area, and can be turned off when annoying)
* Add tire temperatures
* Add lock status (show whether door handles are retracted)
* Show seat belt warnings even when car is "OFF" so driver can inform passengers
* Show all potentially unsafe items: doors, trunks, charge port, pano roof, mirrors
* Any out-of-tolerance conditions color coded yellow or red.
Now we visit the energy page on the 17" display. We can use this to examine scenarios by turning it interactive. Graph for us energy usage and range at destination if:
* Speed were 5/10mph over/under posted speed
* AC/heat were set to a different temperature or turned off
* Road conditions were dry/wet/raining/snowing
* Outside temperature was XXX
I'd like to get your design team in a room with 20 or 30 Tesla owners to talk about how these features are actually used, and about the relative value of usefulness vs. aesthetics.
PLEASE go to your chief U/I designer's office, turn his desk so it's facing the window, have the blinds removed so the sun shines on his computer screen. Then put glasses on his head that give him the equivalent of 20/40 vision (the minimum to legally drive). Sit him down in front of his U/I design to read the screens and tell you the following:
1) What time is it? In what time zone?
2) What is the current rated range?
3) How many miles remaining to your destination? To your next turn?
4) How many miles of range will you have in reserve when you get there?
5) What is the current outside temperature and how will it affect your range reserve?
6) What is the state of the heating/AC system and how is it affecting your range?
7) Can you skip the nearest SC and make it to the next one at your current state of charge?
8) What speed can you maintain to get to your destination with a buffer of 30 miles? 15 miles?
These are the questions we ask ourselves when we take long trips in the Tesla. We do it every 15 minutes or so. Please encourage your designer to consider how these displays are used in real-life scenarios, and test how easy it is to see and read them in real-life conditions.
Ask your designer why it was so painfully difficult to gather all this information in one's head in version 6 U/I, and then ask him why it is in fact more difficult to do so in V7. Why is he so determined to waste the three critical resources available to him as a U/I designer, those being: 1) screen acreage; 2) color and contrast; 3) organization of information.
Let's consider how these resources are used in the current design.
In the center of the primary display we have large swaths of tasteful gray screen containing nothing, surrounding an exciting analog speedometer and power display which in turn surround a digital speedometer and a nice midget car. The analog speedo and power displays are all colorful and contrasty, but since the labelling is at such low contrast that it's almost impossible to read on a sunny day, and the MPH doesn't even have 5MPH tick marks, these are largely useless. Entertaining, yes. Distracting even, since they are the highest contrast and most colorful things on the screen. But useless. The car icon in the exact center of your field of view is also large, colorful and high contrast. Also useless. (Even more useless if you happen to have a red car which hides the brake lights). The car icon is actively hostile at night, since the big bright blob of headlights distracts attention from the speed display. (I recognize this paragraph is irrelevant for Autopilot-capable cars, but this is after all the "Classic Model S" thread.)
The only useful thing in the center of the screen is the digital speedometer, which takes up maybe 10% of that center area. So 90% of the most crucial screen real estate available in the car, the part where the drivers attention goes when it's not on the road, seems to be dedicated to distracting the driver rather than informing him/her.
In the V6 U/I design, at least some of the important information was available easily on the main display: range in the center and highly visible, time of day on the bottom (but small font, difficult to read). Now in V7, range is relegated to the bottom line. Time is only visible on the 17" display (on the far right far away from the driver), the font is too small for those with less than average visual acuity, made worse by the decision to cram a passenger airbag status message underneath.
Meanwhile, the rest of the important information remains scattered to the far corners of the earth.
* Miles to destination? Time to destination? These are at the bottom of the map display in an unreadable font size at low contrast.
* Heating/AC status? No longer visible without bringing up climate page.
* Miles of reserve range at destination? You would think the energy page would be able to show that. But it ignores the display selection for miles range vs. percent charge. Multiply by 2.65 in your head (YMMV).
* Effect of the heat/AC on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of the outside temperature on range? No way to tell.
* Effect of speed on range? Well, I suppose you can change speed, then go to the energy page and wait 10 minutes for the estimated charge at destination to change.
Misuse of screen acreage is pervasive in the U/I.
* The analog clock widget wastes a third of the screen to show two numbers: time and temperature.
* The energy widget uses a third of the screen to paint a colorful graph, but shows only one marginally useful result: Wh/mi, not even the far more useful number: estimated range at this average energy usage.
* The energy page on the 17" needs two sub-pages to deliver only three numbers: average Wh/mi, estimated range, and predicted percent charge at destination.
* The media page has large buttons to select songs from USB or Bluetooth devices, but can't be bothered to wrap the names of long songs to two or three lines in the ample space available.
Might we ask that the energy widget be scrapped and replaced with a text-only "energy status" widget containing the following:
* Battery rated range and percent charge
* Trip miles and time to destination
* Estimated rated miles and percent charge at destination (taking into account altitude, temperature, weather, A/C)
* Outside and inside temperature
* Range reduction because of temperature and A/C usage
* Current time (including time zone), date, and altitude MSL
* All relevant numbers to be color coded yellow, red as they become problematic.
While we're at it, let's make the tire pressure widget more useful:
* Remove the car icon entirely from the speedo screen, transfer all functionality to the widget (it's a bigger area, and can be turned off when annoying)
* Add tire temperatures
* Add lock status (show whether door handles are retracted)
* Show seat belt warnings even when car is "OFF" so driver can inform passengers
* Show all potentially unsafe items: doors, trunks, charge port, pano roof, mirrors
* Any out-of-tolerance conditions color coded yellow or red.
Now we visit the energy page on the 17" display. We can use this to examine scenarios by turning it interactive. Graph for us energy usage and range at destination if:
* Speed were 5/10mph over/under posted speed
* AC/heat were set to a different temperature or turned off
* Road conditions were dry/wet/raining/snowing
* Outside temperature was XXX
I'd like to get your design team in a room with 20 or 30 Tesla owners to talk about how these features are actually used, and about the relative value of usefulness vs. aesthetics.
HankLloydRight
No Roads
Ah, that explains the increasing bitterness in your tone lately. Tesla won't work with *you*, so it must be due to their inadequacy. Now I get it. Thanks for that disclosure.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
In v7 on a classic car, I know we don't get the indefinite hill hold. But two questions:
1 - Does the 2-sec hill assist engage on all grades now, or just high grades like v6?
2 - When hill assist engages, do we get the new indicator light to tell us it has engaged (so, if absent, we know we may roll)?
1 - Does the 2-sec hill assist engage on all grades now, or just high grades like v6?
2 - When hill assist engages, do we get the new indicator light to tell us it has engaged (so, if absent, we know we may roll)?
Mark Z
Active Member
Just as before, the trip mileage on the left and the media on the right.
Since I use navigation often, the trip meter reappears at the end of a drive. I like full screen navigation, so having the Media title is handy on the right. Since navigation is on the left, the battery range is looked at more frequently.
The Apple Watch now has a purpose to look at the current time clearly instead of straining to view the upper right touch screen.
Perhaps we should be glad our throttle response wasn't modified by the "performance boost":
Ver 7 Throttle Response - RWD Model S
Ver 7 Throttle Response - RWD Model S
araxara
X-LR,CT
1. It engages at the same grades as before.
2. No new indicator.
In other words, there is no change to the hill assists function from version 6.2
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Haha, you are totally funny. Not.
My bitterness is about the direction Tesla is going. I used to be a total fanboy. Chatting up anyone who would listen, giving test drives, generally known amongst my friends as that super annoying Tesla lover.
I have received more than a dozen emails from friends asking me how I like autopilot. To which I respond that this is the first ever update to a Tesla that I have rejected and will continue to reject.
But to address the second half of your post... Tesla is not a customer of my employer. But I've been in this industry for a couple of decades and I happen to know a good many of the professional service houses around IVI systems and especially around Qt based IVI systems. And I have learned from them that Tesla is to the best of their (and my) knowledge the only car company who isn't working with outside help. Even though they so desperately need it. And one of the top houses in the field, whose owner has test driven my car, then contacted Tesla offering help and was told in so many words that their services weren't needed. So no, this has nothing to do with me and everything to do with Tesla's believe that they don't need help in developing a better UI.
So please, woof, take your rather insulting insinuations about my motivation and shove them somewhere where they don't get in the way...
Took the wife's P85 for a spin again today. The refresh rate of the IC is definitely higher. Very noticeable on the power meter and analog speedometer. There seems to be more anti-aliasing on the IC, surprisingly as minuscule changes in power usage are noticeable now.
The toy car is a little weird. Can't say I like this approach for non-AP cars. Definitely could have done with something better for the brake light indication.
I did notice maybe a hair more power from a rolling start. Going to have the break out the performance box next time I take it out to verify.
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I continue to be astounded by your rejection of v7 on your AP-enabled vehicle. IMO, if you're rejecting v7 based on the UI, you're likely just going to have to reject every update from here on out. I highly doubt the UI is going to improve significantly any time soon. With the exception of the crappy new power meter, the v7 UI seems perfectly usable. The interface for autopilot gives very good, intuitive, and detailed feedback on the system with the toy car and lane marking display. I think this was pretty well thought out, honestly, and I actually like it. If they give us a decent power meter in a future update I'll have no UI gripes.
The toy car is a little weird. Can't say I like this approach for non-AP cars. Definitely could have done with something better for the brake light indication.
I did notice maybe a hair more power from a rolling start. Going to have the break out the performance box next time I take it out to verify.
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I continue to be astounded by your rejection of v7 on your AP-enabled vehicle. IMO, if you're rejecting v7 based on the UI, you're likely just going to have to reject every update from here on out. I highly doubt the UI is going to improve significantly any time soon. With the exception of the crappy new power meter, the v7 UI seems perfectly usable. The interface for autopilot gives very good, intuitive, and detailed feedback on the system with the toy car and lane marking display. I think this was pretty well thought out, honestly, and I actually like it. If they give us a decent power meter in a future update I'll have no UI gripes.
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