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Firmware 7.0
- Thread starter MarcG
- Start date
I find it perfectly acceptable because on that theoretical brand new 6 lane highway with perfectly clear lane marking the Autopilot will already slow the car down because the side street that used to be there has a corner. So the car slows for the nonexistence corner.
In it's current version autopilot already relies on information from the maps. When it doesn't have good information from the maps it doesn't work so well. For autopilot to work the way we REALLY want autopilot to work the maps have to be upgraded, and the maps have to be a major priority at Tesla. It's probably a big part of the fleet learning element of V7.
So no I'm not too concerned about this because I think it's going to make Autopilot on the whole better because it puts additional pressure on Tesla to make the maps better.
The current map/nav system is woefully lacking.
Don't you find a bit silly when you get in your car that can literally drive itself around, yet it has no idea where it's at? The Maps haven't been updated in how long? Years?
So yeah I don't mind giving a little to gain a lot. I also have a feeling like this is a non-issue. That this limitation won't make it into the release build because it's going to fail the Beta testing it's current undergoing. It's going to fail for all the reasons you say it won't work. That the maps are simply too terrible for it to work.
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I don't think I've seen such behavior, and I drive on multi-level roads almost every day. The car does slow down for the curves that it senses directly.
As for Maps improvements - they are completely separate from AP improvements. They literally work on separate computers with probably completely different codebases.
The Autopilot does seem to rely on information from maps (of some kind) to know when to slow down for corners. I say this because I've seen it slow before the corner begins, and before I've seen the lines of the corner on the instrument panel.
I haven't experienced it on I5, or 405 near me. Heck I don't think I've experienced it slowing before corners on any freeway/highway in WA. I had fun with it slowing for corners going over the pass in Southern Oregon though. From my experience the speed has to be set pretty high, and the corner has to be a pretty significant corner.
As to slowing for non-existent corners I haven't experienced this, but I believe WK057 has. I've also seen reports of this behavior from others. That's the primary information I'm relying on when I say that it's using some kind of maps to determine when to slow. I also know from experience in how it handles corners that it doesn't really see them all that well. If you've noticed it often has to keep doing corrective turns instead of one smooth turn if it's a fairly steep corner. I think it's a limitation of the single camera setup.
If it is in fact slowing for corners based on maps doesn't mean its the maps that's in the navigation system. It could be a completely set of maps, or it could be some kind of duplicate. We know Tesla is using fleet learning to build a set of maps. But, we don't know where these maps are stored or where the initial version came from.
Furthermore we don't know where the Autopilot will get it's information on when to impose the 45MPH limit. Does it get this from the navigation maps or somewhere else? Where does the Autopilot get the TACC hold time information from? As others have said this was woefully bad and completely wrong at times.
My primary desire is to have a good working Autopilot system where
1.) adaptive cruise control WON'T slow down for non-existent corners
2.) the TACC hold function works correctly with the proper hold time
3.) The speed limit information won't misinterpret a 65MPH zone as 85MPH. Or at least where information from the maps overrules it.
I do not want any restrictions on Autopilot, but I don't mind a limitation if that limitation forces improvements to the maps functionality of autopilot (and maybe Nav if the data is shared).
So I kind of see this as a win-win.
If it doesn't work this 45mph on surface streets limitation isn't imposed. Lots of things Tesla uses their beta testers to test out don't make it to the final release.
If it does work we have a better overall car.
Of course there is a risk they'll release it without making any improvements to what does the highway/freeway detection, and it will suck for all of us.
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My car is currently at the service center for its 25k service and shock replacement (see this thread for more details), and it was just upgraded to 2.9.40 from 2.7.77.
Can anyone please remind me what new features were introduced in 2.9.40? I haven't kept a close eye on this thread - although I'm the one who started it :smile:
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Per the firmware tracker, looks like that's the first report of 2.9.40 - I shall therefore name it Skyfall (Skynet falls) :biggrin:
Can anyone please remind me what new features were introduced in 2.9.40? I haven't kept a close eye on this thread - although I'm the one who started it :smile:
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Per the firmware tracker, looks like that's the first report of 2.9.40 - I shall therefore name it Skyfall (Skynet falls) :biggrin:
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Have you received the car back yet? Anything new in the Release Notes? Any UI changes?
The eighth build of v7 in the last four weeks...
Not yet, hopefully tomorrow afternoon. Will definitely post release notes and UI changes if I see any.
Pilot_51
Member
Service updated my car to 2.9.12 yesterday.
The only change I'm really hoping for is a fix for the media playing without me. It's especially annoying when I get home and pause in the middle of a long podcast, then the next morning I forget where I had it paused. On one occasion, I thought I knew where to resume and ended up listening to 30+ minutes that I already listened to the day before.
The only change I'm really hoping for is a fix for the media playing without me. It's especially annoying when I get home and pause in the middle of a long podcast, then the next morning I forget where I had it paused. On one occasion, I thought I knew where to resume and ended up listening to 30+ minutes that I already listened to the day before.
My classic S was at my local Service Center today and got the V7.0 (2.9.12) update. I assume 2.9.40 is for AP cars?
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
Interesting - so indeed 2.9.40 (Skyfall) appears brand new today.
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We need more data to say that for sure. We've had situations before were some service centers were a little quicker than others with new version. I also had a case where I went to the service center (back when I was excited about updates) and was told in the morning that they had no updated firmware and then received a call in the early afternoon, just before it was time to pick up the car, if I'd be willing to wait an extra hour so they could install v6.0 on it
So you may just have picked up your car an hour too early...
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
I don't know about it resume podcasts on its own, but with 2.9.12 (I was on 2.5.71 previously) I notice that Slacker will restart a song from the beginning when it starts back up (if it hasn't been so long for it to purge from memory). I heard the same song by Coldplay five times yesterday as I kept opening and closing my doors replacing the puddle lights. Each time I closed the door and moved to the next, the song started from the beginning.
Pilot_51
Member
I use USB and it only seems to start playing by itself when it wakes up in the morning (I think 5AM or whenever scheduled charging starts). To prevent it advancing to another track, I switch to another media source before getting out of the car, but it still loses the position.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Agree. I also find (not sure why) that some podcasts will include the "scrubber bar" so at least you can zoom ahead and back, but others don't. I was listening to a 90 minute podcast that didn't have the scrubber and stopped at Starbucks about 40 minutes in. I paused it and went in, but when I came back to the car, it had re-set to the beginning. With no way to even try and find my spot, I had to give up because I wasn't going to re-listen to the first 45 minutes again :cursing:
Pilot_51
Member
I think I experienced that when I listened to podcasts on TuneIn about a year ago. That's part of the reason I switched to USB.
mknox
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I will probably go back to the podcast app on my iPhone and just listen over Bluetooth. It's great to have it built in to the car, but very frustrating when things like this happen.
^^This. Based on comments from the MobilEye CEO, there is strong reason to believe it is a separate data base. In his comments he remarked that standard navigation databases lack the level of detail needed for Autopilot. Things like the precise locations of exit ramps and the number of lanes. I would imagine that the precise location of curves and the amount of curvature also lack detail. He specifically mentioned that this data would be collected by cars as they drive, consistent with Elon's remarks about collecting data from Autopilot Teslas.
While it is unclear what source Tesla used to initialize the Autopilot map database (might even be the stale Navigon data in the on board system), over time it should diverge. Ideally there would be feedback to update the navigation database, but I doubt that such a process exists today because Garmin/Navigon already has a different process.
IMHO, Tesla created a mapping monster based on initial licensing deals, costs, and maybe even getting something out the door quickly.
- The Maps App using Google Maps and dependent on Internet connectivity. Always standard.
- The onboard navigation using Garmin/Navigon maps. Originally part of the tech package but standard as of early 2015 when tech package was "refactored" and Autopilot became a separate option. (Curiously, IIRC, we lost the promised annual updates near the time the onboard maps became standard...)
- The more detailed map data being acquired for and by Autopilot use. Likely dependent on Internet connectivity although Autopilot may continue to operate in a "degraded" mode in the absence of detailed map data.
I hope Tesla has a plan for sorting this out and getting to more consistent maps. I don't see Google Maps going away, give the rich landmark / location data that Google has. Because Tesla/MobilEye and Google have different strategies for detailed map data for autonomous(Google)/Autopilot(Tesla) I don't see these two merging. Perhaps Navigon can be removed but then a solution is needed to extract less detailed (suitable for onboard storage) map information from either the Google data or the Tesla detailed data. Unfortunately, given the likely company politics, I am pessimistic about a "converged" solution anytime soon. Sigh. So the current mess with the aging onboard maps is likely to be with us for a while.
TMS
Member
FYI
This is the type of highly detailed maps Tesla is using for Autopilot (they have nothing to do with the normal navigation maps):
And here is a sample of a high precision 3D intersection map provided by "HERE" for autonomous cars ("Here" was acquired from Nokia by Audi, BMW and Daimler):
This is the type of highly detailed maps Tesla is using for Autopilot (they have nothing to do with the normal navigation maps):
And here is a sample of a high precision 3D intersection map provided by "HERE" for autonomous cars ("Here" was acquired from Nokia by Audi, BMW and Daimler):
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Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
Quoting this tidbit from another thread as others have been asking where Autosteer would be limited.
green1
Active Member
That's nice and all, but once again, how could it possibly know what a "residential road" is, and I highly doubt the camera can really tell if there's a centre divider. So we're left with the 100% guarantee that this will remove autopilot functionality in legitimate situations without providing anything to me in return. I ask again, why would I chose to install this downgrade?
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