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Firmware 8.0

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Hahaha ... 200 mile highway journey last night, on a regular route of mine, and the car didn't miss a single lane change, neither my deliberate empty-road experimental ones nor normal in-traffic driving. One of the lane changes took maybe 5 seconds, but all the rest were sub 3-second. No recent software updates, So bang goes my theory ...

I'll make some more, considered, experiments at different times of the day.

Most of the lane change failures I've seen with AP1 (2.52.22) is when the lane I want to move to is a new lane created by a merging road/on-ramp.

My guess is that the car sees the right-most lane (here in the US) as the breakdown lane (solid line). Then when it becomes a newly created lane, the car still interprets it as a break-down lane until a certain amount of distance/time has passed and the lane markings (dashed lines) may be more obvious. Just my WAG (wild-a**-guess).
 
Thanks. My lane-change-failures have occurred anywhere, I haven't managed to attach any significance to any of them. Typically no cars around - I'm about to overtake a car that is ahead, or want to pull back in after overtaking, and no other traffic close by. Usually these are on straight (or "very nearly straight") sections. I've had this identically in both my car and a (slightly different model) AP1 loaner, might be something related to UK roads of course - e.g. narrower lanes. Could be that yesterday's success was a better recognition at nighttime (that's my WAG!) I'll certainly keep an eye on whether that makes a difference in future, to date it has seemed to be to be completely random.

I couldn't see out of the reversing camera yesterday, so maybe filthy sensors also helps? I'll get my coat ... :rolleyes:
 
Thanks. My lane-change-failures have occurred anywhere, I haven't managed to attach any significance to any of them. Typically no cars around - I'm about to overtake a car that is ahead, or want to pull back in after overtaking, and no other traffic close by. Usually these are on straight (or "very nearly straight") sections. I've had this identically in both my car and a (slightly different model) AP1 loaner, might be something related to UK roads of course - e.g. narrower lanes. Could be that yesterday's success was a better recognition at nighttime (that's my WAG!) I'll certainly keep an eye on whether that makes a difference in future, to date it has seemed to be to be completely random.

I couldn't see out of the reversing camera yesterday, so maybe filthy sensors also helps? I'll get my coat ... :rolleyes:

I've had lane recognition issues with AP1 related to white lines on concrete (light-colored) highways. The same route at night, lane recognition is spot-on. Your night time observation is astute and I believe accurate.

Good luck!
 
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Most of the lane change failures I've seen with AP1 (2.52.22) is when the lane I want to move to is a new lane created by a merging road/on-ramp.

My guess is that the car sees the right-most lane (here in the US) as the breakdown lane (solid line). Then when it becomes a newly created lane, the car still interprets it as a break-down lane until a certain amount of distance/time has passed and the lane markings (dashed lines) may be more obvious. Just my WAG (wild-a**-guess).
Interesting observation. I suspect that would be the case given my observations of the way Autosteer attempts to reposition itself towards the right as it believes the road is widening (before self-correction to the left when the right lines come back.) FWIW, none of the lane change failures I described upthread from earlier this week were similar to your scenarios. All of mine were in clearly marked lanes on both sides during daylight, with long distances of lane markings before and during triggering the lane change operation; some involving semis, others passenger vehicles and smaller trucks.
I've had lane recognition issues with AP1 related to white lines on concrete (light-colored) highways. The same route at night, lane recognition is spot-on. Your night time observation is astute and I believe accurate.

Good luck!
Very much agree with this observation, as lighting conditions can make it hard for even me to see the (need to be re-painted) lines at times. The problem can be exacerbated during torrential rain, even with newer painted lines, to the point I proactively take my MS off Autosteer when I need to slow down and use some hopefully intuitive logic as to where my lane really is. ;) I don't expect my single-camera HW1 AP1 to be able to deal with such exceptional conditions -- BUT, it's these sort of situations that will make getting to full production (not beta) autonomous driving a challenge, and why I'll be hesitant for a very long time to trust what the automation will and won't do on this long journey we're a part of.
 
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I'll be hesitant for a very long time to trust what the automation will and won't do

+1

I've got used to one-hand-on-the-wheel AP1. With right hand at 4-O'Clock there is naturally some rotational torque and I never get any hold-the-wheel warnings. Some people might think that's no different to manual driving, but I find that I am much less tired when driving long-ish journey late-ish at night (I have a regular journey, so have been able to compare before / after) so IMHO it reduces stress on the driver.

That plus stop-start traffic follow-the-leader makes AP1 well worth having.

I'd love to have the car just drive me to my destination whilst I sleep / work / chat in the back ... so long as that arrives before I get old and become a danger to other road users that's fine :) ... although I'd like it Right Now Please for my elderly relatives.
 
What about it is misguided ?

Google's a world power, and Apple's main motivation was to avoid having to depend on a major competitor for a core competency. Apple knew it would have to do maps itself, and it was only a question of when. Sure, they initially deployed a solution that was of mediocre quality (but not as bad as portrayed), but it wasn't as though their customers couldn't just use other mapping solutions on their phones if they wanted to. No lock in.

There's no real parallel with the Tesla / Mobileye situation. Mobileye is a Tier 2 supplier to the auto industry. They had nobody else even close to Tesla as a customer and were not motivated to solve Tesla's problems or move at the speed Tesla wanted to move. Also, it's clear that Tesla customers are locked in to whatever Tesla uses. So very different dynamics all around.

Tesla has indicated that it wanted to move forward with two systems in parallel, easing the transition, but that Mobileye said they would not support that. I don't know what the politics were around this, but I'm sure it was nasty. I believe Tesla has taken on a difficult problem, but that they are dedicated and capable of solving it. As we have experienced, it's taking more time than they expected. I will start getting worried if they don't have something significantly improved this month and on par with AP 1.0 by next month. But that's just me.
 
I don't think that less fatigue during long road trips is an AP benefit as justified by many. Sitting in a comfy leather chair and not having to stay attentive with hand eye coordination leads to sleep. Until cars can communicate with other cars on the road and until the infrastructure has fail safe road markings I prefer to drive our Model S and take a break for recharging of both the car and myself. Fatigue is not an issue even for us elderly drivers.

AP has limitations in our car and I'm OK with that as it is early in the development process. Asking it to do too much too soon is high risk with little to no benefit.

I'd be interested in a full list of benefits as I may be missing something. Less fatigue isn't a big one, in my opinion.
 
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Sitting in a comfy leather chair and not having to stay attentive with hand eye coordination leads to sleep

FWIW that's not been my experience. I regularly drive to attend an evening concert, and then drive back leaving around 10PM. Its 75 minutes [each way] of mostly highway driving, traffic flows freely.

Previously I was always fighting sleep the last 10 miles or so. That has not happened in the 7 or 8 months since having Tesla and AP1. Before I got the Tesla I didn't believe the stories I read of other people saying they arrived more alert on AP, but it has indeed been my experience too. May not be for everyone though.

Conclusion I have drawn (but no idea if it is right) is that all those micro-adjustments one makes, almost subconsciously, when driving add up to "effort"
 
FWIW that's not been my experience. I regularly drive to attend an evening concert, and then drive back leaving around 10PM. Its 75 minutes [each way] of mostly highway driving, traffic flows freely.

Previously I was always fighting sleep the last 10 miles or so. That has not happened in the 7 or 8 months since having Tesla and AP1. Before I got the Tesla I didn't believe the stories I read of other people saying they arrived more alert on AP, but it has indeed been my experience too. May not be for everyone though.

Conclusion I have drawn (but no idea if it is right) is that all those micro-adjustments one makes, almost subconsciously, when driving add up to "effort"

Another anecdote from my end...I've done a 3-hour drive, spent about four hours at my destination, and then a 3-hour drive back home. Almost all on the freeway with AP1 auto-steer enabled (a few Supercharger/bathroom stops here and there), no passengers. I felt great when I got back home (I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little tired, but I wasn't wiped out like I would have expected otherwise).

When you've got auto-steer engaged, you (and I mean all of us drivers, not @WannabeOwner in particular) are not supposed to just zone out...you use some of that effort you would have been doing to keep your car in the lane, on speed, instead to checking your route, looking ahead for trouble (road construction, accidents, bad road markings, etc.) on the road, etc. If you're staring off into space (or even worse, eyes in-cockpit), drumming your fingers, waiting for time to pass, You're Doing It Wrong (tm).

Bruce.
 
FWIW that's not been my experience. I regularly drive to attend an evening concert, and then drive back leaving around 10PM. Its 75 minutes [each way] of mostly highway driving, traffic flows freely.

Previously I was always fighting sleep the last 10 miles or so. That has not happened in the 7 or 8 months since having Tesla and AP1. Before I got the Tesla I didn't believe the stories I read of other people saying they arrived more alert on AP, but it has indeed been my experience too. May not be for everyone though.

Conclusion I have drawn (but no idea if it is right) is that all those micro-adjustments one makes, almost subconsciously, when driving add up to "effort"

Having done a long road trip in my car I definitely think AP aids in keeping you fresh and alert. This jives with my pre-AP road trip experience too. Many times I would fight sleep as a driver, but as soon as I swapped and became a passenger I'd feel wide awake.
 
There's no real parallel with the Tesla / Mobileye situation. Mobileye is a Tier 2 supplier to the auto industry. They had nobody else even close to Tesla as a customer . . . . .

Well I don't agree. According to Wiki (and other sources) Mobileye is a big deal in the area. Among other things they found a very good way to send several seconds of video plus car parameters is very small data packages - very nice when you are limited to a cell phone. Additionally, I would not describe GM, Volvo and Audi as insignificant factors in the automotive industry.

Maybe things did not go so well because Mobileye made a judgement Tesla was going the way of say the DeLorean.
 
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FWIW that's not been my experience. I regularly drive to attend an evening concert, and then drive back leaving around 10PM. Its 75 minutes [each way] of mostly highway driving, traffic flows freely.

Previously I was always fighting sleep the last 10 miles or so. That has not happened in the 7 or 8 months since having Tesla and AP1. Before I got the Tesla I didn't believe the stories I read of other people saying they arrived more alert on AP, but it has indeed been my experience too. May not be for everyone though.

Conclusion I have drawn (but no idea if it is right) is that all those micro-adjustments one makes, almost subconsciously, when driving add up to "effort"
I would say your conclusion is correct. I drive from Charlotte, NC area to Charleston, SC area six to eight times each year. Since late 2015, I've used AP1 heavily on these trips (260 miles each way - about 90% on AP1). There is no comparison with respect to driver fatigue - much less since I started using AP1.
 
Less fatigue isn't a big one, in my opinion.
For me that's overwhelmingly the number one benefit of AP1. I am far less tired and much more awake and alert during road trips with AP1. This is based on less than a full day trips like 200 miles and multi-day cross country trips like 1800 miles.

For completeness, I noticed that I was somewhat less tired on Model S trips prior to AP1 that I think was due to more frequent and longer stops and walking around than in an ICE. AP1 improved on this significantly.
 
Well I don't agree. According to Wiki (and other sources) Mobileye is a big deal in the area. Among other things they found a very good way to send several seconds of video plus car parameters is very small data packages - very nice when you are limited to a cell phone. Additionally, I would not describe GM, Volvo and Audi as insignificant factors in the automotive industry.

Maybe things did not go so well because Mobileye made a judgement Tesla was going the way of say the DeLorean.

I think that it is straight forward. If Tesla has identified self driving technology as a key market differentiator and core competitive competency going forward then it simply makes sense to bring the technology in-house and lessen reliance on a 3rd party.

Happens all of the time.
 
Anyone noticing NAV confusing north and south? For fellow Angelenos, I noticed her speaking 405 north when the display is sending me 405 south and vice versa. :eek: I just started noticing (finally listened lol) and it's consistent while transitioning from the 10 and the 90 onramps. I've reverted to muting again and now oblivious once more. Although I do miss the funky way she says Los Angeles.....sort of.
 
Anyone noticing NAV confusing north and south? For fellow Angelenos, I noticed her speaking 405 north when the display is sending me 405 south and vice versa. :eek: I just started noticing (finally listened lol) and it's consistent while transitioning from the 10 and the 90 onramps. I've reverted to muting again and now oblivious once more. Although I do miss the funky way she says Los Angeles.....sort of.

It also confuses Left with Right. The Nav display shows a left or right turn and the voice tells you to go in the opposite direction.
 
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It also confuses Left with Right. The Nav display shows a left or right turn and the voice tells you to go in the opposite direction.

Yup, the voice is worse than useless, it is a detriment. Says Turn Right, when dash and map say turn left. Sigh. Whenever I leave the voice on, I notice it, so it happens at lots of places, but not quite every turn.