First day of my 12.24 kW install!

[SoCal Dave]

That's a pretty big assumption that would not be correct for many setups. It may be true for setups with optimizers, as I'm not sure how those work and whether they also provide RSD-style functionality.

For any non-optimizer setup, there's no way to get the panels to "stop sending power". In sunlight they're like batteries, there's always a voltage potential between the positive and negative terminals, and if you complete the circuit then current will flow. One nice thing about panels (compared to batteries) is they generally can't provide a lot of current (and the PV wiring should be rated for the short-circuit current of the panels), but since the voltage can be quite high (a few hundred volts, residential PV systems are generally kept below 600V as far as I know) they can still deliver a lot of power.

One question would be whether there is a RSD (Rapid Shutdown Device) present, and if so where it is in relation to the work being done. If the RSD is on the opposite side (relative to the inverter) of the wiring being altered, then it should ensure that the lines are not energized (assuming it's working properly) when the inverter is off (DC & AC, see below). If there is no RSD or the lines to be worked on are between the panels and RSD then they will be energized in sunlight, but the key would be to not complete the circuit. The panels themselves should be floating (not earth grounded), so as long as you don't allow the positive and negative leads to come into contact (directly or via something else conductive) then everything should be fine (of course I'm not making any guarantees there, if you're not comfortable working with potentially high-voltage wiring hire a professional to do it). Personally, I'd recommend disconnecting the wires as close to the panels as you can get (at least the positive connector, both if you're not sure which is which), to ensure that everything after that point is de-energized (I'd use a properly-rated voltmeter to ensure there's no DC voltage on the wires before proceeding), then re-connect them once you've finished working with the wiring (but with the inverter's DC disconnect still off, and the AC breaker to the inverter should also be thrown, as Tesla told me the inverter may send the signal to enable the RSD based purely on having AC power, even if the DC disconnect is thrown. I'm a bit skeptical about that claim personally, but better safe than sorry).

I'm referring to my system only which does have RDS.

 

[BrettS]

It’s my understanding that even when the inverter is disconnected and the optimizers are in their rapid shutdown mode that they still do provide 1V per optimizer, so if you have a string of 14 panels then even when the inverter is disconnected there will still be 14V on the DC line. This is to allow the inverter to know that there are panels there (and even how many panels are there).

This low voltage shouldn’t be dangerous as you are working on the system, but you do want to be aware that it exists and not accidentally short the DC cables as you are working.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm planning to pay "cash" for the install. I'm assuming Tesla allows an ACH transfer, correct? Or will I need to send a check via mail?

Tesla will likely send you a paypal link to pay to, and you can pay in any form of payment that you have on paypal (Bank, credit card, etc). Yes, you can actually pay via credit card to get whatever rewards you have on that card, then simply pay the balance off before your credit card starts charging interest on it. You can even pay the balance off before your statement date if you want to, to avoid the charge causing a change in your amount of outstanding credit used for Credit score purposes.

 

[mnsweeps]

Tesla will likely send you a paypal link to pay to, and you can pay in any form of payment that you have on paypal (Bank, credit card, etc). Yes, you can actually pay via credit card to get whatever rewards you have on that card, then simply pay the balance off before your credit card starts charging interest on it. You can even pay the balance off before your statement date if you want to, to avoid the charge causing a change in your amount of outstanding credit used for Credit score purposes.

wait..You can pay the entire balance (minus $100 which was already paid when ordering) using a credit card?

 

[SoCal Dave]

City inspection is scheduled for tomorrow. They said my city requires a test of the Rapid Shutdown System so the power will need to go off again for a few minutes.

 

[jjrandorin]

wait..You can pay the entire balance (minus $100 which was already paid when ordering) using a credit card?

Yes, yes you can, with no credit card fees imposed by tesla either via the paypal link. I did exactly that, and so have several others.

Provided your CC has a large enough credit limit to make that purchase, of course (and its a good idea to put a large purchase notification on your CC before processing it, as well). Both very standard, regular things.

I was going to pay "cash" for my 2 powerwalls as well, but did the above to get the additional 1% that is on my main CC, then just paid that off before it even hit the statement. Of course it was on the card as a purchase, but I paid it off before the statement date so that the CC would not have that large balance increase on the statement.

 

[bkp_duke]

wait..You can pay the entire balance (minus $100 which was already paid when ordering) using a credit card?

Yep. I put 4 powerwalls plus install costs on credit cards.

Ahem . . . free vacation courtesy of Tesla.

 

[mnsweeps]

Yes, yes you can, with no credit card fees imposed by tesla either via the paypal link. I did exactly that, and so have several others.

Provided your CC has a large enough credit limit to make that purchase, of course (and its a good idea to put a large purchase notification on your CC before processing it, as well). Both very standard, regular things.

I was going to pay "cash" for my 2 powerwalls as well, but did the above to get the additional 1% that is on my main CC, then just paid that off before it even hit the statement. Of course it was on the card as a purchase, but I paid it off before the statement date so that the CC would not have that large balance increase on the statement.

yeah I have Chase reserve visa with over $100,000 limit

 

[SoCal Dave]

A few more photos.

I was surprised to see a fan in the middle of the inverter. I wonder how often this fan dying causes the inverter to fail.

I believe I can eliminate the junction box and do home runs to the inverter from each panel group. The roof home runs I'd go down the backside of the house so I don't see them from the front of the house. The roof penetrations I'd move to under a solar panel.

 

[carterm2]

Bogarting this thread to vent.

I ordered a 11.34 Kw (36 panel) Solar Panel install for a standing seam steel roof (clips to t section steel panels on roof, no penetration through roof).. should have been a slam dunk.

Going on Month 3.

June 2 was install date.... today is August 5th...

It took 2 days initial install time, as promised... except the required ground wires were not installed, and that added 10 days. (a few hours of work).

The long awaited (2 more weeks) city inspection resulted in "missing MCI units" long mandated by San Jose city for fire crew safety. That means there were 2 city inspections. (scheduling impact). Multiple visits to my house by crews... one crew came and said they don't go on roofs, and they did not have or know anything about MCI units. Two MCI units were installed later, but they were not working. Finally the original crew came out (2 trucks, 6 people) and spent 6 hours replacing MCI units, running new wires from the panels to the ground to the inverters. That day was three weeks ago. I was told then that the Inverter #2 was DOA and would be replaced, in a few days.

1 of 2 Delta inverters works, carrying power from 24 of the panels. the remaining 12 panels are not producing power due to an inverter that is DOA. The working Delta M8 (32 amp) inverter is connected to 40 amp circuit breaker, the DOA inverter M4 (15 amp) Inverter is connected to 20 amp breaker. How the city, and the Tesla crew and Tesla QA inspector missed the fact that the inverter did not work (every time they came out) is a mystery. (I asked directly to the Tesla QA manager that came to the house if the inverters were working, he told me they were, and that he had tested them from his truck.)

Now I can not get a reasonable response from support, follow up calls promised to me by Tesla customer and scheduling do not happen (last two weeks). When I call, I always get someone new, who reads the notes, but does not know to talk to the crew lead who did all the work. Crew lead told me two weeks ago the new inverter that was installed was at fault, (Noe) from "maintenance" would replace it
("in a few days"). Now I am into week 3 since original crew re-tested entire system, no one from Tesla follows up, no one knows what is going on. I am told that managers have put my install on a priority list... which looks like I am at the very bottom, based upon the void of a response.

I call Tesla for support every week now. (Giving them plenty of time to respond.). I call Maintenance Scheduling and Telsa Energy Customer Support. I am polite because I believe that is a better way to succeed.

This is my first and hopefully only venting. I will likely wish I hadn't posted it. I am a huge fan of Tesla, and this has been educational.

I am now waiting until next Tuesday, another week... I will call on Wednesday morning.

 

[GHTech]

No worries with the questions

7/26 - Permit approved
7/27 - Earliest possible install (had to wait as I had tree trimmers coming)

Hi SoCal Dave,

How is the install scheduling done? LADBS issued the permit today. Does someone from Tesla call me with possible dates, or it is an option that becomes available on their portal?

Thanks,

GHTech

 

[SoCal Dave]

Hi SoCal Dave,

How is the install scheduling done? LADBS issued the permit today. Does someone from Tesla call me with possible dates, or it is an option that becomes available on their portal?

Thanks,

GHTech

I received a text saying I could schedule my system. I went to their portal and a calendar let me select available install dates. About 5 minutes later someone from scheduling called me asking if I could move it up. I couldn't but she offered me a date which didn't show online which I agreed to.

 

[GHTech]

I received a text saying I could schedule my system. I went to their portal and a calendar let me select available install dates. About 5 minutes later someone from scheduling called me asking if I could move it up. I couldn't but she offered me a date which didn't show online which I agreed to.

Thanks for the info. My project coordinator just responded. My re-roof is supposed to happen next week, and they need photographs of the finished roof. Things might happen only after that.

 

[mnsweeps]

SoCalDave, do you think you would need bird protection for your panels? My neighbors (not Tesla installed) have huge gaps between the panels and roof and they call someone every year to clear out bird nests, poop , feathers etc.

 

[holeydonut]

A few more photos.

View attachment 572925
View attachment 572923
View attachment 572922

Wow... upon seeing those pictures of your conduit penetration and tile hooks, I now recognize why my roofer told me "just say no to solar on your tile roof". It's not like I get heavy rain or snow around here, but my roofer had said he's seen damaged tiles on roofs near where solar hooks come into play. Unfortunately it's hard to determine fault for warranty recourse since the damage is going to be on a regular tile, not where the installer adds penetrations.

When I brought up concern with Tesla they just said my house wasn't a good candidate for their PV product and told me to look elsewhere.

The conduit penetration going through the tile is an example of a quick install since they didn't put flashing on top of the tile they just trust the flashing below the hole they ground to suffice. The better tile conduit penetration kits are basically replacement tiles or include tile level flashing to add an extra layer of protection. It looks like Tesla opted for the faster/cheaper option.

Conduit Penetration Flashing for Tile | Roof Flashing for Electrical Conduit Penetrations | Tile Roofs | Rooftop Solar

In that first picture of the tile hook mount, you can tell they didn't notch the tile sitting on the hook since that tile is crooked on the right side. A stiff breeze could cause the array to rattle against the tiles resting on the hooks (and you have a bunch).

Also, I don't know the gap between the hook and the course of tile below it, but if your array is pushed down from wind, that could cause cracks if the hook pushes down on the tile. NorCal doesn't see long sustained winds, but we do get enough gusts they threaten to shut off power all the time. I wonder if the same applies to SoCal.

Edit: it's weird... I thought Tesla used Zep mounting hardware. But looking at your tile hook shape it seems you have another brand of mounting hardware.

 

[niveknow]

Thanks for sharing. My install is scheduled for almost 2 weeks from now so great to see someone document the process for early insight. I also had concerns on the inverter. Looks like we have the same size system 12.24 + 10k inverter which lead me down the clipping concern as well. Putting trust in comments I've seen here, I left the concern alone. =) You post did help me think through the conduit run and also the pre-install walk through request. Thanks again!

 

[SoCal Dave]

Wow... upon seeing those pictures of your conduit penetration and tile hooks, I now recognize why my roofer told me "just say no to solar on your tile roof". It's not like I get heavy rain or snow around here, but my roofer had said he's seen damaged tiles on roofs near where solar hooks come into play. Unfortunately it's hard to determine fault for warranty recourse since the damage is going to be on a regular tile, not where the installer adds penetrations.

When I brought up concern with Tesla they just said my house wasn't a good candidate for their PV product and told me to look elsewhere.

The conduit penetration going through the tile is an example of a quick install since they didn't put flashing on top of the tile they just trust the flashing below the hole they ground to suffice. The better tile conduit penetration kits are basically replacement tiles or include tile level flashing to add an extra layer of protection. It looks like Tesla opted for the faster/cheaper option.

Conduit Penetration Flashing for Tile | Roof Flashing for Electrical Conduit Penetrations | Tile Roofs | Rooftop Solar

In that first picture of the tile hook mount, you can tell they didn't notch the tile sitting on the hook since that tile is crooked on the right side. A stiff breeze could cause the array to rattle against the tiles resting on the hooks (and you have a bunch).

Also, I don't know the gap between the hook and the course of tile below it, but if your array is pushed down from wind, that could cause cracks if the hook pushes down on the tile. NorCal doesn't see long sustained winds, but we do get enough gusts they threaten to shut off power all the time. I wonder if the same applies to SoCal.

Edit: it's weird... I thought Tesla used Zep mounting hardware. But looking at your tile hook shape it seems you have another brand of mounting hardware.

I didn't even notice that - not a roofer

In this video they just grind down the back side of the tile a bit (@ 4:50). I'll ask the inspector about it tomorrow.

 

[SMAlset]

Bogarting this thread to vent.

I ordered a 11.34 Kw (36 panel) Solar Panel install for a standing seam steel roof (clips to t section steel panels on roof, no penetration through roof).. should have been a slam dunk.

Going on Month 3.

June 2 was install date.... today is August 5th...

It took 2 days initial install time, as promised... except the required ground wires were not installed, and that added 10 days. (a few hours of work).

The long awaited (2 more weeks) city inspection resulted in "missing MCI units" long mandated by San Jose city for fire crew safety. That means there were 2 city inspections. (scheduling impact). Multiple visits to my house by crews... one crew came and said they don't go on roofs, and they did not have or know anything about MCI units. Two MCI units were installed later, but they were not working. Finally the original crew came out (2 trucks, 6 people) and spent 6 hours replacing MCI units, running new wires from the panels to the ground to the inverters. That day was three weeks ago. I was told then that the Inverter #2 was DOA and would be replaced, in a few days.

1 of 2 Delta inverters works, carrying power from 24 of the panels. the remaining 12 panels are not producing power due to an inverter that is DOA. The working Delta M8 (32 amp) inverter is connected to 40 amp circuit breaker, the DOA inverter M4 (15 amp) Inverter is connected to 20 amp breaker. How the city, and the Tesla crew and Tesla QA inspector missed the fact that the inverter did not work (every time they came out) is a mystery. (I asked directly to the Tesla QA manager that came to the house if the inverters were working, he told me they were, and that he had tested them from his truck.)

Now I can not get a reasonable response from support, follow up calls promised to me by Tesla customer and scheduling do not happen (last two weeks). When I call, I always get someone new, who reads the notes, but does not know to talk to the crew lead who did all the work. Crew lead told me two weeks ago the new inverter that was installed was at fault, (Noe) from "maintenance" would replace it
("in a few days"). Now I am into week 3 since original crew re-tested entire system, no one from Tesla follows up, no one knows what is going on. I am told that managers have put my install on a priority list... which looks like I am at the very bottom, based upon the void of a response.

I call Tesla for support every week now. (Giving them plenty of time to respond.). I call Maintenance Scheduling and Telsa Energy Customer Support. I am polite because I believe that is a better way to succeed.

This is my first and hopefully only venting. I will likely wish I hadn't posted it. I am a huge fan of Tesla, and this has been educational.

I am now waiting until next Tuesday, another week... I will call on Wednesday morning.

ugh. Hope it gets resolved really soon for you. It's like getting a Christmas present and then being told you can't open it yet. Of course the follow up is frustrating. I will ask one question: what is MCI units?

 

[SMAlset]

....Edit: it's weird... I thought Tesla used Zep mounting hardware. But looking at your tile hook shape it seems you have another brand of mounting hardware.

We have flat concrete tiles and are spec'd for the Zep System. Maybe curved tiles require a different anchoring system?

 

[holeydonut]

ugh. Hope it gets resolved really soon for you. It's like getting a Christmas present and then being told you can't open it yet. Of course the follow up is frustrating. I will ask one question: what is MCI units?

I'm guessing it's some circuit interrupter so a fire crew can disable the PV at the breakers. TBH I've never heard them referred to as "MCI"

Maybe they installed the interrupt incorrectly on the smaller inverter?