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First L3 Self Driving Car - Audi A8 world premieres in Barcelona

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A lot of articles have repeated this claim, perhaps it originated from this story: Tesla Autopilot Drives an Impaired Man to the Nearest Hospital, Saving His Life or similar.

I have seen no evidece that Tesla's or Elon's statements or in fact ground reality would have aligned with this claim, though. I guess we can't dismiss Tesla saying this somewhere, but if so, it probably has been in a forward-looking manner.

I think this may be false info getting repeated...
Right. There might be some obscure place where Tesla might have made a statement that suggested that, but this seems like mostly heresay that people just repeat. The difference although important for our current discussion, is a bit subtle so a lot of people might miss it.

Anyways, at the moment production Teslas don't yet have the ability to pull to the side of the road when the driver isn't responding to warnings.
 
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1.) It can't even handle a situation that would be no problem to a Tesla with [snip] AP2.
"No problem" :D
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1.) I know. Still it handles situations like these better.
2.) Won't help you A with the law (which states the Rettungsgasse has to be established independent of you hearing or seeing an ambulance) and B at all, because the car was driving so close to the car in front that you couldn't do anything about it once you hear the ambulance.
 
That was an immediate take over. Engineer says "up to 10 seconds" which is not L3. L3 is guaranteed 5+ second handover. That was instantaneous ala L2. Also, apparently the system will only work with cars in front and to the sides. That is a major limitation that makes this system virtually useless. I just drove in a ton of Chicago traffic and AP2 was awesome and during the bad traffic, rarely prompted hands on. It just kept going and I could nudge the wheel lightly occasionally and otherwise just monitor the other cars. I see Tesla's route as more fruitful and useful and Audi seems to be all hype. That was not impressive.
 
That was an immediate take over. Engineer says "up to 10 seconds" which is not L3. L3 is guaranteed 5+ second handover. That was instantaneous ala L2. Also, apparently the system will only work with cars in front and to the sides. That is a major limitation that makes this system virtually useless. I just drove in a ton of Chicago traffic and AP2 was awesome and during the bad traffic, rarely prompted hands on. It just kept going and I could nudge the wheel lightly occasionally and otherwise just monitor the other cars. I see Tesla's route as more fruitful and useful and Audi seems to be all hype. That was not impressive.

I watched the discussion around the A8 and Tesla since a while. Although I am German I need to say that Audi is overselling the system big time. It looks to me like they needed a story out there in the market to make some buzz and people believe Audi is ahead of the game. Good marketing after they feel the head to have overslept the EV game.

Having driven the Tesla S AP and watched many movies comparing both systems, Teslas is usable today and can be used in much more situations like higher speed and on smaller streets not autobahn with clear street divider and so on versus Audis AP is today not available and even if you buy an Audi A8 in Germany in 2018 the system will not be active they told the press. The Video above is another prove of the immediate take over request from the car without a longer takeover time as claimed from Audi in an L3 system.

There are a lot of other data points I could add why I strongly believe Teslas system is more advanced and most important can be used today. Finally a Model 3 for instance is maybe half the price of an A8 (with a system that is not activated for the unforeseen future) and has a system that is proven. So therefore its a non stater for me....
 
That was an immediate take over. Engineer says "up to 10 seconds" which is not L3. L3 is guaranteed 5+ second handover. That was instantaneous ala L2. Also, apparently the system will only work with cars in front and to the sides. That is a major limitation that makes this system virtually useless. I just drove in a ton of Chicago traffic and AP2 was awesome and during the bad traffic, rarely prompted hands on. It just kept going and I could nudge the wheel lightly occasionally and otherwise just monitor the other cars. I see Tesla's route as more fruitful and useful and Audi seems to be all hype. That was not impressive.

Lol ppl i shouldnt have to repost stuff so many times. Please go back acouple pages and u will find the answers you seek.
 
Finally a Model 3 for instance is maybe half the price of an A8 (with a system that is not activated for the unforeseen future) and has a system that is proven.

As someone, unlike you, who actually owns and drives Tesla's Autopilot 2 (mind you, not Autopilot 1) - no, it is hardly proven at all.

It really is not very good at this time at all. More like terrible.

Autopilot 1 was proven.
 
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That was an immediate take over. Engineer says "up to 10 seconds" which is not L3. L3 is guaranteed 5+ second handover. That was instantaneous ala L2.

The Video above is another prove of the immediate take over request from the car without a longer takeover time as claimed from Audi in an L3 system.

No, just no. Those were not immediate take over requests at all. The driver just reacted fast. The car was in control and the driver had ~10 seconds to react, otherwise it would have initiated a slowdown procedure.

Funny how the story changes. It was not that long ago when the Audi A8's Rettungsgasse seeking was used as an example how it was diving for the divider out of control. LOL, now the Rettungsgasse leaning is not sufficient... Audi just can't win here, can they? ;)

Please.

Now, as for the points about the usefullness of the traffic-jam pilot, that I have no disagreement with. It has been limited to a very limited scenario. But let's stick to the facts regarding the rest.
 
One can clearly see that it's NOT keeping the Rettungsgasse free. That's a fact. Whatever someone said somewhere sometime doesn't change what the video shows.

But that's just the thing. What you said and what was previously said are related.

The Audi is starts making way for Rettungsgasse as the traffic slows down. This was interpreted on TMC as the car becoming out of control and diving for the middle divider - I educated them otherwise at the time and was largely ignored. OK, Americans don't have the same Rettungsgasse.

Now, co-incidentally, at the same time the traffic queue on the rightmost lane encounters a gap on the side and to the rear of the car, which prompts the system to initiate manual handover to the human driver, as this is a rule for the system. (It is in its initial form meant for traffic-jams with queues on adjacent lanes. When queue is no longer there on the right side, the scenario ends.)

The video clearly shows the car moving towards the left side of its lane to form Rettungsgasse in anctipation of the the queue stopping - or alternatively the car needing to stop if the driver does not take control during the hand-over period...

But the car's movement is stopped by the driver taking control, who centers the car instead.

The Audi system was doings its thing all the time. There was no immediate takeover, there was no diving for the divider. There was an orderly process of making way for emergency vehicles co-inciding with an orderly hand-over process to the driver.

This has simply been, time and again now, been misunderstood and misrepresented here.
 
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The engineer was scared. That was an immediate takeover even the softball reporter saw the fear and the immediate reaction and wanted more information. Whatever you say, the driver felt so threatened by the request that he sprung into action. That doesn't seem like they have any faith in their supposed L3 system actually functioning. Further, it only operates in a swarm of cars. 37mph and below is just one of several restrictive operating conditions such that the system itself is a gimmick like summon. Wake me up when its not garbage.
 
The Audi is starts making way for Rettungsgasse as the traffic slows down. This was interpreted on TMC as the car becoming out of control and diving for the middle divider - I educated them otherwise at the time and was largely ignored.

It is completely irrelevant to the German law that you got ignored on some internet forum. The Rettungsgasse should have been kept free by the car from about minute 3 to the takeover at minute 5:XX. But it wasn't.

That is over two minutes of wrong behaviour. Which basically adds up to: wrong all the time.
 
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The engineer was scared. That was an immediate takeover even the softball reporter saw the fear and the immediate reaction and wanted more information. Whatever you say, the driver felt so threatened by the request that he sprung into action. That doesn't seem like they have any faith in their supposed L3 system actually functioning. Further, it only operates in a swarm of cars. 37mph and below is just one of several restrictive operating conditions such that the system itself is a gimmick like summon. Wake me up when its not garbage.

You keep saying that, but it just isn't true - that is the same takeover request that happens all the time in that system, it was not an immediate takeover request. There is no "immediate takeover request" in the system, there is just that one takeover request.

The psychological reaction to it, now that is a different ballgame of course. People do not always react logically. That is just humans being humans. And an engineer does not like such a thing happening when the press is on board, who would.

Besides, there was hardly any fear there. Please.

It is completely irrelevant to the German law that you got ignored on some internet forum. The Rettungsgasse should have been kept free by the car from about minute 3 to the takeover at minute 5:XX. But it wasn't.

That is over two minutes of wrong behaviour. Which basically adds up to: wrong all the time.

There is one moment in that video where it is questionable if the Rettungsgasse is sufficient, I agree with that. In every other instance on the video, though, it is clear the car is keeping the Rettungsgasse and indeed is seeking the Rettungsgasse in the instance it initiates the handover procedure towards the driver.

As for the law, you can be certain that Germany is the first or amongst the first to legally approve this car and its autonomous driving. Whatever will be will be - and Audi will be taking responsibility for it. Some other markets may be far more problematic, who knows, but Germany will not be one of them...

Now, about Tesla AP2 and that Rettungsgasse... ;)
 
Of course it will be legalized in Germany - there's a reason Dieselgate took off in the USA, not in Germany.

Doesn't change anything about the car not honouring the Rettungsgasse. The video shows this. Otherwise the camera wouldn't be able to look post all the cars in the front.
 
Of course it will be legalized in Germany - there's a reason Dieselgate took off in the USA, not in Germany.

Doesn't change anything about the car not honouring the Rettungsgasse. The video shows this. Otherwise the camera wouldn't be able to look post all the cars in the front.

There is one instance on the video where the car may not be sufficiently to the side, as I already admitted. I'd say you are exaggerating that the car is not honouring the Rettungsgasse overall, though, because clearly it is. Not even in Germany is every driver perfect all the time. ;)
 
As a German and as an Engineer not living that far from Ingolstadt (Audi HQ) I would love to claim that the Audi A8 is superior.

However after reviewing claims and facts on both sides my modest conclusion is that Tesla is/has been further ahead with AP1 at least if not with AP2. With all goodwill it is for me hard to understand how Audi can do that claim of L3. Just looking at youtube everybody will come to that conclusion very soon. I am aware that this is hard to swallow for Audi simply because it does undermine their mantra "Vorspung durch Technik".

For people who claim the difference (fair enough) I suggest lets make the customer decide and compare amount of cars with autonomous driving enabled in 2018 and the following years or even better autonomous miles/km driven power period.

Nevertheless, now as German Automakers feel the embarrassment they will catch up and have systems on the road in 2-3 years that will work just fine.They will sell them likely just in premium models first and therefore won't get the data volume and content required to further tune the systems and loose a lot of untouched opportunities out there. Anyhow their approach to solve that automation looks to me anyhow different.

The entire concept of trial and error and learning from risky mistakes, sometimes at the cost of the customers is very much unknown in Germany and considered evil and a no go. A nice example is the M3 ramp up that proves how you can accelerate the complex launch process. No German Automaker who'd every even try to use such an approach.
 
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