First L3 Self Driving Car - Audi A8 world premieres in Barcelona

[J1mbo]

Looks like Audi showed the traffic jam pilot to a few journalists.

1:30

How is this L3?

At 4m57s, the system needs immediate take-over by the driver because "we did not have a convoy in the right lane, there was a very big gap" (smells like b/s - you could see the car diving for the barrier in the middle of the road - and traffic jam assist that needs traffic in other lanes before it works?!).

 

[McRat]

37 mph.
I'm going to wager folk will find that part a poor fit for US roads.
Often our traffic jams go stop-n-go, then cruise up to 50-55, then slow down again to stop-n-go.
Why? On ramps, interchanges, and lanes ending. It makes the traffic speed pulse.
If they can bump that to 55, and you stay in the right 2 lanes, it should be acceptable. Otherwise, I think it stalling at 37 is going to be a constant PITA.

 

[LowlyOilBurner]

This is pretty disappointing. I drove a 2017 Allroad that had "Traffic Jam Assist", which is basically the same thing demonstrated in these videos. My XC90 does the same thing as well upto 80mph, expect you have to hit resume to get moving again and it nags you to touch the wheel every so often. All the Tesla AP1 & 2 videos I've seen are more impressive than what Audi has at the moment.

 

[Spidy]

the system needs immediate take-over

Not really immediate like we often see it when other systems reach their limits. The driver was just quick to grab it, but 5 seconds later would not really have made a difference.

This is pretty disappointing. I drove a 2017 Allroad that had "Traffic Jam Assist", which is basically the same thing demonstrated in these videos. My XC90 does the same thing as well upto 80mph, expect you have to hit resume to get moving again and it nags you to touch the wheel every so often. All the Tesla AP1 & 2 videos I've seen are more impressive than what Audi has at the moment.

Except that all those systems legally require you to pay attention. You can't just get out your phone in these situations and check you mail with those cars.

 

[McRat]

...Except that all those systems legally require you to pay attention. You can't just get out your phone in these situations and check you mail with those cars.

In the US it's a lot different. Drivers do all that stuff while driving cars without AV technology. Paying attention is not a prerequisite here.

 

[Spidy]

In the US it's a lot different. Drivers do all that stuff while driving cars without AV technology. Paying attention is not a prerequisite here.

Well, you certainly see people here doing it, too, but it's still just a question of time until the police catches you and you get a point for it, so if unlucky with the police and maybe also had a heavy foot in recent months it could costs you your license.

 

[Bladerskb]

you could see the car diving for the barrier in the middle of the road

No it wasn't, infact the steering wheel never moved after the beep. secondly they literally said the car hugs the left or right lane (giving way for emergency cars) when under a specific mph and then centers when traffic picks up.

At 4m57s, the system needs immediate take-over by the driver

That's not immediate take over. that's the regular take over screen. there's no green, then yellow, then orange then red and for good reason. the screen is always red when there's a take over request. That way people never disregard any takeover requests or wait for the last second to take over.

Which is why there is also no countdown. but just cause the guy take over within 1 seconds doesn't mean he didn't have 9 more seconds.

The message also says I believe "AI Pilot is finished please take over carefully"

 

[AnxietyRanger]

This is pretty disappointing. I drove a 2017 Allroad that had "Traffic Jam Assist", which is basically the same thing demonstrated in these videos.

Well, it is nothing like the old traffic jam assist. That was adaptive cruise plus steering assist, similar to the other of its age.

It is true Audi has a very conservative scenario selected for the world's first Level 3 product. They take legal responsibility for it's driving. I believe it is the first volume production car with Lidar as well.

But within that scenario it is definitely not like the mere driver's aid. Don't be fooled by the conservative approach.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

How is this L3?

At 4m57s, the system needs immediate take-over by the driver because "we did not have a convoy in the right lane, there was a very big gap" (smells like b/s - you could see the car diving for the barrier in the middle of the road - and traffic jam assist that needs traffic in other lanes before it works?!).

The FUD is thick in these parts.

 

[J1mbo]

No it wasn't, infact the steering wheel never moved after the beep. secondly they literally said the car hugs the left or right lane (giving way for emergency cars) when under a specific mph and then centers when traffic picks up.

It does. Then the driver immediately recenters the car.

The message also says I believe "AI Pilot is finished please take over carefully"

"Traffic jam assist ending. Please take over control of the vehicle"

(I can't make out the German text, but guess it says the same thing).

 

[lux_cars]

Audi should have launched with an L3 system for up to highway speeds at least and that would have made this a lot more useful to a lot more people. Limiting it to traffic jams really limits the appeal of this.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Audi should have launched with an L3 system for up to highway speeds at least and that would have made this a lot more useful to a lot more people. Limiting it to traffic jams really limits the appeal of this.

Now THIS is completely fair. Discussing the usefulness of the limitations is just fine IMO. No doubt Audi chose very conservative limits for its first Level 3 product.

But one should not confuse this with the Level 2 systems nevertheless. That shows lack of understanding on what this is.

One thing that I do not know is, does the new Audi A8 offer Level 2 steering assistance in other speed ranges? The modal separation is an interesting topic as well.

 

[lunitiks]

The first true L3 system - where car company assumes responsibility for traffic situations that normally is on the driver - should be expected to have limitations like this.

Anyway notice in the first video how Audi doesn't settle with visual and audible nag: It's even shaking you with the seat belt. I think I'd be "receptible" for this takeover request

 

[AnxietyRanger]

It does. Then the driver immediately recenters the car.

"Traffic jam assist ending. Please take over control of the vehicle"

(I can't make out the German text, but guess it says the same thing).


View attachment 247515

There is nothing un-Level 3 there as @Bladerskb points out.

Nor, let's be real, was the car "diving" for the middle barrier. That was the FUD part from you. Complete hyperbole. The line it was driving was slightly to the left of where the human driver adjusted it to after taking control. (Drive AP2 and you can see diving for the middle barrier...)

Absolutely nothing showing there the assist was not in control the whole time. It met its conservative limits and initiated a normal control change procedure to which the driver reacted quickly and by slightly altering the driving line.

The driver had several more seconds to comply and only then non-compliance would have resulted in eventual orderly stopping of the car, not driving into the barrier.

 

[Bladerskb]

It does. Then the driver immediately recenters the car.

That wasnt after the beep. You can tell by when the screen changes. the slight nudge happens almost simultaneously.

Secondly Its not diving for the barrier. That is quite obvious. Its trying to hug the left line because its been programmed to do so under a specific mph.

Watch the other videos, the audi guy explains it very clearly.


Also its called traffic jam "pilot"

 

[mspohr]

That wasnt after the beep. You can tell by when the screen changes. the slight nudge happens almost simultaneously.

Secondly Its not diving for the barrier. That is quite obvious. Its trying to hug the left line because its been programmed to do so under a specific mph.

Watch the other videos, the audi guy explains it very clearly.


Also its called traffic jam "pilot"

Why is it hugging the left side? That is where emergency vehicles would drive.

 

[alcibiades]

Audi should have launched with an L3 system for up to highway speeds at least and that would have made this a lot more useful to a lot more people. Limiting it to traffic jams really limits the appeal of this.

They should've just released up to highway speeds as Beta.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Why is it hugging the left side? That is where emergency vehicles would drive.

This is what the big Ocean or two between us does to communication sometimes.

The car was on the left lane, hence it hugs the left side.

This is why:

 

[malcolm]

Limiting it to traffic jams really limits the appeal of this.

Agreed.

But it's a much easier tracking problem to solve. In a traffic jam, you can use the presence of other vehicles to steer the car, so you don't have to worry about tracking road markings or features.

So the "intelligence" in the autopilot is actually in the brains of the drivers in the vehicle immediately surrounding yours.

It's a sort of piggyback AP; using your fellow commuters to operate your car for you.

 

[McRat]

This is what the big Ocean or two between us does to communication sometimes.

The car was on the left lane, hence it hugs the left side.

This is why:

In the US, on controlled access highways, you are to change lanes to the right side (LHD), but NOT enter the emergency lanes. This way, even if somebody block the roadway, there is a path for emergency vehicles.

Having normal cars pull into the emergency lanes is problematic since road debris migrates there, and car tires are thin. The shoulders can have soft surfaces and are often sloped. Experienced drivers with 10 ply all terrain tires and good ground clearance who inspect their vehicles each day are set up for this environment.

Plus if you watch it, it ends up blocking the ambulance by drivers not allowing trucks to move right.