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First no charger, now no key fob, what's next??

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#123
Unclepaul said:
It is the smart thing for Tesla to do. Providing expensive gadgets for people that will not be using them is simply a waste of $.

Including everything on every car is not efficient.

Those that really want those gadgets can simply add them to their order. Those that have no need for them can take the car as delivered.
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For first time EV purchase, trying to figure what is needed or not, is not easy. While chargers are now posted on the order page, FOB are not. How would you know that the car does not come with FOB? They don't mention it on the order page. And they still have that stupid "potential" saving price, that borders on questionable selling tactic.
I also only use mobile charger, never had wall charger (since 2013). This "do not include charger for environmental reasons" comes from Apple and it is all for profit, not environment. Include charger and FOB in the full price but offer price reduction if you decide that you do not need it. Not the other way around.
 
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#124
vcor said:
You could buy the Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo at $190K, but oops, no mobile cable is included. It's a $1,120 option. Actually, on the Taycan 4S, you have to pay more than $29K for all the options Tesla includes at no cost. Here's a more detailed comparison for those interested: Taycan vs. Model S – TeslaTap
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Or BMW users need to pay monthly to use seat warmer. But if I wanted Porsche or BMW I would not be here.
 
#125
Operator64 said:
The ultimate fanboy is the one who NO LONGER owns a Tesla but continues to complain On a Tesla forum about the fob they didn’t get on the car they didn’t buy.
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After investing 9 years into the company, plus still having a stock investment, I still want to see Tesla be the best they can be. While probably not likely, I still hold outside hope that someday, they'll produce a vehicle that works for me again. I loved my Model S's, prior to the refresh, Best cars I ever owned. Maybe not in looks or luxury, but overall. I'm still appreciative of what Elon did and accomplished. If not for him, II almost certainly wouldn't have either of the two EV's I have now. I hope someday he expands his vision to include more than just those who want what he wants and more to everyone else
 
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#126
kizamybute' said:
After investing 9 years into the company, plus still having a stock investment, I still want to see Tesla be the best they can be. While probably not likely, I still hold outside hope that someday, they'll produce a vehicle that works for me again. I loved my Model S's, prior to the refresh, Best cars I ever owned. Maybe not in looks or luxury, but overall. I'm still appreciative of what Elon did and accomplished. If not for him, II almost certainly wouldn't have either of the two EV's I have now. I hope someday he expands his vision to include more than just those who want what he wants and more to everyone else
Click to expand...
While my order for Plaid+ was switched to Plaid, I looked around but could not find anything better. Ultimately, I decided to stay with Tesla, charging network made the decision easy. But now they will open charging network to other manufacturers, taking that edge away. Elon's head is about to explode, that will be the end of Tesla.
 
#127
I've been a long time investor in Tesla and feel strongly about its long-term outlook knowing how everyone else in the industry is struggling. If there is any threat to Tesla, it would be from the Chinese. Companies like NIO, XPENG, and BYD are entering the EU market and some will eventually enter the U.S. They have a good design, build quality, and has a Tesla like focus. The Japanese failed and is lagging on the transition. The Chinese will be the new Japanese auto powerhouse to replace Honda, Toyota, and Nissan in the wave of EV's. The future landscape of automotive will be Tesla, China, and Korea, and VW. The other Germans will focus on their niche luxury market. GM, Ford, and Chrysler will be bailed out by our tax dollars just so that we can continue to support unions, dealer networks, and big oil lobbyist. All the U.S. company options look great, but fulfilling orders and profitability will take a long time to overcome. The Mach-E had a small margin, but then Ford recently released in the press that they are taking a loss on every vehicle made while Tesla is showing 20-30% profit margins (Unheard of in the Auto industry, these are software company margins). I will support all the decisions they make because the success of the company affords me the disposable income to spend on their vehicles.

With that said here are some of the things I'm unhappy about:
  • inconsistent build quality, mine happens to be 98% flawless so I feel very fortunate.
  • Promising tilt center screen but not available at delivery until the 2022 Feb refresh - I am bummed thinking it will be available when pre-ordering.
  • Paying $10k for FSD for a standard ADAS system and always falling short on my BETA score - who knows if FSD will be live in 4-5 years, my usual car refresh cycle. I guess I should feel fortunate that it is now $12k, lol.
  • Insufficient brakes for the weight and power of the Plaid - $20k add-on option now for CCBs.
  • they should have designed the plaid to not have a glass roof and applied additional weight savings by having carbon fiber roof, hood, and rear hatch.
  • The plaid should have been unique cosmetically so that it's not a matter of slapping on a spoiler and an $8 badge for posers to pretend they own one. I understand why Tesla took this approach because it optimizes output and reuse 95% of all the parts except for the tri-motor and unique seat piping that differentiates the plaid from LR.
Despite all that, I love this car and only drive my 911 to keep the batteries from dying. Am I frustrated at Tesla, maybe a little, but as long as they execute I will forgive them. I considered the Audi E-Tron GT and Taycan, nearly bought a 4S cross tourismo, but when adding all the ridiculous Porsche a la carte options, I had to make a lot of sacrifices just to have parity with the Tesla. Basic driving aids are nickel and dime'd. Power seat options and lights are up-charges. I had spec'd close to $30k in options and yet it's not even close to the plaid in terms of performance or Tesla in terms of its supercharger network benefit.

The last thing I thought about or cared for is not having a key fob or personal charger. I have a home charger installed and use the supercharger network on the road. It's nice knowing that I have an emergency personal charger available, but I would have bought one anyways for peace of mind when traveling. I also bought jack pads in case I need road side service or need to repair a tire at a shop not equipped to handle Teslas. I will also buy a tire repair kit and a compressor. As I did with my BMW and Porsches in the past that do not have a spare. Tesla is no different than all these other manufacturers with cars north of $120k and none of them come close in terms of connectivity. Put things like fobs into perspective and your world fastest production car is a lot of BANG for your money!
 
#131
ucmndd said:
This “solution” just seems like a psychological pacifier to me. I can’t imagine why someone would be so in favor of this option vs the reverse. They’re exactly the same.
Click to expand...
Not really. For first time buyer, it would be easier to keep charger and FOB in the overall price. For those who know, they can back out what they do not need.
But regardless, this is a dick move on Tesla part.
 
#132
ZipByICE said:
Not really. For first time buyer, it would be easier to keep charger and FOB in the overall price. For those who know, they can back out what they do not need.
But regardless, this is a dick move on Tesla part.
Click to expand...
I would never hire you to do my product strategy. So you are saying that instead of paying $145,000 for a plaid, you'd ask Tesla to charge you $144,825 for opting out of the KeyFob. It's not a dick move and it's a move backed by data. The cost is immaterial in the grand scheme of things and in the buzzfeed article the Tesla spoke person said that they have determined that not very many owners use the KeyFob and only use their phones.

Did you complain when all new iPhone's no longer come with a charger and cable only? They didn't subtract $30 from the iPhone, but raised the price. They feel that everyone has access to power blocks from previous or related devices on USB, that they no longer need to bundle it. If you are the few that want an Apple specific charger then you can pay $30 or go buy an "Amazon basics" version. You may think that Apple pulled a dick move, sure, then you can go to Google. Oh wait, they got rid of theirs too. Maybe go to Samsung or OnePlus.

In the auto industry you need to minimize cost, even if they are relatively small. Saving $1/vehicle when producing 1m vehicles a year adds up. They will look at everything to maximize margins. Would you rather that they keep the charger and key fob and not give us the new matrix headlights or any other enhancements to the car that actually matters? People in this thread are arguing about an accessory for god sake.
 
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#133
2putt4 said:
I would never hire you to do my product strategy. So you are saying that instead of paying $145,000 for a plaid, you'd ask Tesla to charge you $144,825 for opting out of the KeyFob. It's not a dick move and it's a move backed by data. The cost is immaterial in the grand scheme of things and in the buzzfeed article the Tesla spoke person said that they have determined that not very many owners use the KeyFob and only use their phones.

Did you complain when all new iPhone's no longer come with a charger and cable only? They didn't subtract $30 from the iPhone, but raised the price. They feel that everyone has access to power blocks from previous or related devices on USB, that they no longer need to bundle it. If you are the few that want an Apple specific charger then you can pay $30 or go buy an "Amazon basics" version. You may think that Apple pulled a dick move, sure, then you can go to Google. Oh wait, they got rid of theirs too. Maybe go to Samsung or OnePlus.

In the auto industry you need to minimize cost, even if they are relatively small. Saving $1/vehicle when producing 1m vehicles a year adds up. They will look at everything to maximize margins. Would you rather that they keep the charger and key fob and not give us the new matrix headlights or any other enhancements to the car that actually matters? People in this thread are arguing about an accessory for god sake.
Click to expand...
This is already a common market strategy, and has worked well forever. We see it with cars, computers, etc. A price is shown and you can add or subtract options to best fit your needs. It is not unusual to see a top line product listed, and the consumer can dumb it down as desired. Remove the nice wheels, remove the sunroof, add a better paint, take a smaller hard drive, remove the cheap keyboard for $10, whatever...

EV's are a new technology for vast majority consumers. By a longshot. Offering a car with a charger included (fobs, whatever), and allowing people who already have a one to remove it, is perfectly reasonable. Your argument about Apple no longer including a charger with their iPhones is a completely different scenario, as the vast majority of people in the US already have not just one, but multiple chargers already on hand (I think they still include a cable).

The alternative, giving someone the option to add them on, yes, is not that much different, but apparently, very disruptive to your sensibility. I am not sure why you are so bothered by it.

The bickering in this thread, as I stated a while ago, is just ridiculous.
 
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#135
4SUPER9 said:
This is already a common market strategy, and has worked well forever. We see it with cars, computers, etc. A price is shown and you can add or subtract options to best fit your needs. It is not unusual to see a top line product listed, and the consumer can dumb it down as desired. Remove the nice wheels, remove the sunroof, add a better paint, take a smaller hard drive, remove the cheap keyboard for $10, whatever...

EV's are a new technology for vast majority consumers. By a longshot. Offering a car with a charger included (fobs, whatever), and allowing people who already have a one to remove it, is perfectly reasonable. Your argument about Apple no longer including a charger with their iPhones is a completely different scenario, as the vast majority of people in the US already have not just one, but multiple chargers already on hand (I think they still include a cable).

The alternative, giving someone the option to add them on, yes, is not that much different, but apparently, very disruptive to your sensibility. I am not sure why you are so bothered by it.

The bickering in this thread, as I stated a while ago, is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

We're not doing a la carte on Bose vs Burmeister sound system here. Tesla does not do individualization in order to streamline the assembly line. Once they go the BMW and Porsche route, every car will be made to order and slows down production and margin. They only have 2 wheel option, paint color, interior color and trim, and FSD (Software) as options. Do you know how streamlined that is from a manufacturing perspective? The consumers like it because they don't have to make trade offs, do I want 18-way seats vs. manual seats to get that 23 speaker audio system. Tesla wins because they get to charge what they want for the entire package, the consumer wins because they have little choice and gets what everyone gets. Tesla is breaking the rule of traditional auto. No dealership, no marketing, no unions, limited options, and they crank out vehicles at the margins they set their targets at. You are asking them to become a traditional auto maker by providing options a la carte. Computers and cars are not the same.

When was the last time you used the charger that came with the car? I haven't in almost a year of ownership. Sits in the bag, tucked well below all my cleaning supplies in the sub-trunk. 120volt NEMA 5-15 - Model S = 3 miles of range per hour. Who owns a $120k+ car and charges their car with it? Why aren't people complaining with the continue price increases due to supply chain across their model lines? Wouldn't you rather that they eliminate key fob and charger instead of raising the base price by another $2-3k? Maybe my analogy to apple charger may not be apples to apples, but if you own a Model S or X, you are likely to have a wall charger installed at home, no? Or are you going to charge for 5 days at the rate of 2-3mph?

Maybe this thread would not exist if they just -$475 for charger and -$175 for key fob off of a $145k Plaid S - I'll give you a good deal sir $144,350 is your price and hope that it makes up for your inconvenience!
 
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#136
2putt4 said:
When was the last time you used the charger that came with the car? I haven't in almost a year of ownership. Sits in the bag, tucked well below all my cleaning supplies in the sub-trunk. 120volt NEMA 5-15 - Model S = 3 miles of range per hour. Who owns a $120k+ car and charges their car with it? Why aren't people complaining with the continue price increases due to supply chain across their model lines? Wouldn't you rather that they eliminate key fob and charger instead of raising the base price by another $2-3k? Maybe my analogy to apple charger may not be apples to apples, but if you own a Model S or X, you are likely to have a wall charger installed at home, no? Or are you going to charge for 5 days at the rate of 2-3mph?
Click to expand...
For what it's worth, myself and ~10 of my friends who have Teslas all use the universal mobile connector as our primary charging method. Some of us live in condos with a 240 outlet by the parking spot- given the choice would you rather just plug in the UMC or spend thousands getting strata approval and an electrician to come wire in a wall connector? Some others chose to just install a 14-50 outlet at their house, because it allows for more flexibility if/when they decide to get a different EV.

A $50 14-50 or 6-50 adapter plugs into the UMC and allows for 240V charging almost as fast as the wall connector, which costs more to purchase and even more to hardwire in. The 14-50 adapter actually used to be included with Teslas, and I recall the complaints when that was removed years ago, but I digress...

I don't think it's not being able to trickle charge with the 5-15 that is the crux of the matter. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have their own personal garage for a wall connector, and there are more people than you realize who use the UMC at 240V/40A too.
 
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#137
yamanote said:
For what it's worth, myself and ~10 of my friends who have Teslas all use the universal mobile connector as our primary charging method. Some of us live in condos with a 240 outlet by the parking spot- given the choice would you rather just plug in the UMC or spend thousands getting strata approval and an electrician to come wire in a wall connector? Some others chose to just install a 14-50 outlet at their house, because it allows for more flexibility if/when they decide to get a different EV.

A $50 14-50 or 6-50 adapter plugs into the UMC and allows for 240V charging almost as fast as the wall connector, which costs more to purchase and even more to hardwire in. The 14-50 adapter actually used to be included with Teslas, and I recall the complaints when that was removed years ago, but I digress...

I don't think it's not being able to trickle charge with the 5-15 that is the crux of the matter. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have their own personal garage for a wall connector, and there are more people than you realize who use the UMC at 240V/40A too.
Click to expand...
This is interesting. My HOA will not allow it and I wouldn't support it either to have charging drawn from common building electricity. All interested residents have to get a conduit connected to their individual meter. Do other residents and your board members know that you are charging your car at their expense? If you have multiple EV's doing the same, you can potentially overload the circuit. I can see the home use case if you have a 240 outlet and have an electrician install a 14-50 or 6-50 and buying the adapter. All the Tesla owners I know have done work to get wall chargers and in San Francisco, condo's and apartments have WallBox or similar wall chargers installed.
 
#138
2putt4 said:
This is interesting. My HOA will not allow it and I wouldn't support it either to have charging drawn from common building electricity. All interested residents have to get a conduit connected to their individual meter. Do other residents and your board members know that you are charging your car at their expense? If you have multiple EV's doing the same, you can potentially overload the circuit. I can see the home use case if you have a 240 outlet and have an electrician install a 14-50 or 6-50 and buying the adapter. All the Tesla owners I know have done work to get wall chargers and in San Francisco, condo's and apartments have WallBox or similar wall chargers installed.
Click to expand...
The ones I know of are recent build condos with 240V plugs specifically designed for EV charging prewired between every parking spot. There's usually a nominal monthly fee to have the plug turned on ($30-40/mo), but no other metering required.

There is a newer zoning bylaw in my city requiring 100% of residential parking spaces in new builds to be prewired for level 2 EV charging, so this is becoming more common. Some places might bill differently but the general idea is the same, rarely do you find developers installing J1772 stations at every spot as wiring in a simple plug is much more cost efficient.
 
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#139
2putt4 said:
We're not doing a la carte on Bose vs Burmeister sound system here. Tesla does not do individualization in order to streamline the assembly line. Once they go the BMW and Porsche route, every car will be made to order and slows down production and margin. They only have 2 wheel option, paint color, interior color and trim, and FSD (Software) as options. Do you know how streamlined that is from a manufacturing perspective? The consumers like it because they don't have to make trade offs, do I want 18-way seats vs. manual seats to get that 23 speaker audio system. Tesla wins because they get to charge what they want for the entire package, the consumer wins because they have little choice and gets what everyone gets. Tesla is breaking the rule of traditional auto. No dealership, no marketing, no unions, limited options, and they crank out vehicles at the margins they set their targets at. You are asking them to become a traditional auto maker by providing options a la carte. Computers and cars are not the same.

When was the last time you used the charger that came with the car? I haven't in almost a year of ownership. Sits in the bag, tucked well below all my cleaning supplies in the sub-trunk. 120volt NEMA 5-15 - Model S = 3 miles of range per hour. Who owns a $120k+ car and charges their car with it? Why aren't people complaining with the continue price increases due to supply chain across their model lines? Wouldn't you rather that they eliminate key fob and charger instead of raising the base price by another $2-3k? Maybe my analogy to apple charger may not be apples to apples, but if you own a Model S or X, you are likely to have a wall charger installed at home, no? Or are you going to charge for 5 days at the rate of 2-3mph?

Maybe this thread would not exist if they just -$475 for charger and -$175 for key fob off of a $145k Plaid S - I'll give you a good deal sir $144,350 is your price and hope that it makes up for your inconvenience!
Click to expand...
I use the mobile connector with the 240v outlet that the previous owner had already installed in my garage, so all I had to do was buy the 14-50 adapter. Def cheaper than a wall connector. Just because I bought a 6-figure car doesn't mean I'm going to spend an additional few hundred or a thousand+change dollars for something I don't need. Could I? Sure. Do I need to? No. Will I eventually? Maybe, if I have the need to carry the mobile charger around with me on a regular basis and it becomes annoying to unplug and pack. But until then, I'll keep using my free mobile charger. Thanks
bilh
 
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