First P85D adopters stuck in black hole

[Andyw2100]

Ok, yeah I misread your post. I'll edit mine. But still 3 weeks - 3 days :smile:


Don't get me wrong, happy for all those folks who have cars completed though!

Thanks. And no problem.

With respect to the three weeks vs. three days, we know that the three weeks cars are experiencing something well outside the norm. We've heard the norm is supposed to be about five days in production, at least for the non-D model S. Also the three days my car was in production could easily have actually been longer and only appeared to be three on my dashboard. We'll probably never know.

 

[bonnie]

Let me state again that I think every person on this thread has a valid reason to expect better communication. But reading through this (again), it feels like many people are just getting worked up and feeding off each other. Yes, other people are held up because of what appears to be nonseat issues. A couple. It's conceivable that there could be a specific part or other reason holding them up that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else. I believe one of those people has a paint color that is about impossible to get now. That could be a factor. Who knows? I don't. One is held up who ordered textile seats. Conceivably the textile and leather were made to the same engineering specs that had to be updated after testing revealed some unacceptable (to Tesla) results.

If you've had any dealings with a manufacturing operation, what we're hearing makes absolute sense (though still feels unfair). And I can understand why people who have not dealt with manufacturing are confused and upset. ... back to 'please improve communication here'.

 

[flowbee]

Hey folks, besides the seat issue, early cars had an issue with "the engine noise being louder than they wanted"

 

[gpetti]

I'm sorry that some of the first people to place orders are the ones stuck in limbo - in careful reading of this thread, it seems there are good reasons (though it doesn't help when it's your car). I think the important point that people, especially new folks, should focus on is that there is NOTHING other than worry that is driving the 'it's a beta car, it's not the same quality' churn here. In fact, in looking at the facts, it appears that quality of one specific component (seats) is the reason your cars are held up.

It sounds like the cars held up were produced with seats that failed side air bag testing (internal or external testing, dunno). Because of port problems where a lot of stuff is currently held up, not just Tesla parts but enough to hit the news around here, the required replacement parts are held up and Tesla can't get at it. So they're offering to deliver the cars with older seats and giving options of a credit or retrofit. That seems to be a reasonable response.

As those of you who have been involved with manufacturing operations can likely imagine, components are kitted out, assigned to s/n (or VINs in this case) and to take seats from other cars in production would be just playing WhackAMole with the cars, moving the problem over to other cars coming down the line - and in doing so, you run the risk of introducing new problems you didn't have before.

Situation sucks for everyone. And no argument regarding the poor communication. Instead of piecing together 'what happened', there should have been an official letter out of the comms group letting people know. I think that's a lack at Tesla - most companies call in Comms to put together official communications on everything. 'Get us a messaging doc, what can we say, can't we say?' 'Please write this customer letter regarding [this]' and so on. I haven't seen Tesla Comms in that role & hopefully Ricardo Reyes will tackle that early on and expand the reach of the Comms group. No time like the present...

If I were waiting for my car right now, I'd be annoyed over the lack of communication. I would not be worried over potential quality issues.

I think some details of this are being missed. If we had been offered to take the car with different seats many if not all of us would have said yes. This option is not on the table. I was told that I would definitely get the older seats but my DS is still not being told why my car is still being built, I.e. It is not waiting for seats and it still can't be released. In the meantime, other later orders are moving through the line and being asked about the seats to enable delivery. My car actually did reach completion on November 26th so I had completed payment, released my temporary car, setup insurance and registration, booked my wrap and arranged my plans accordingly. On Dec 2 my car went back into production and to this day the only information my DS has is whatever his system said prior to that, ie ready to ship. If they are not waiting on seats then it's something else which is why some of us are wondering if these will be problem cars. Typically that is a risk one takes to get an early car, only we aren't getting an early car either.

 

[zzzzdoc]

My biggest problem right now with Tesla (and I'm in that Limbo category that my car has been in production for going on 3 weeks), is that my calls are continually being ignored, or I'm being occasionally called back and lied to. This is poor customer service. Plain and simple.

I've called roughly once, or at most twice a week asking for real information - so I'm not exactly being a nuisance here. Yet - no call backs.

I even called up sales today at my local store asking if at least I could test drive a D that arrived yesterday at the store to see what I'll be getting and make me feel a little better. Even this phone call was ignored. I'm sorry, that's poor customer service.

Over the past few days I've heard here that none of our cars are going to be coming with the next generation seats, and we will have 3 options. Of course, no one has called me and given me options. I just hear crickets.

 

[skilly]

My biggest problem right now with Tesla (and I'm in that Limbo category that my car has been in production for going on 3 weeks), is that my calls are continually being ignored, or I'm being occasionally called back and lied to. This is poor customer service. Plain and simple.

Being lied to...thats a strong statement. I havent heard that before - could you be more specific?

 

[bluenation]

If I were waiting for my car right now, I'd be annoyed over the lack of communication. I would not be worried over potential quality issues.

and then the post immediately after yours contradicts your last line.

i sympathize with all the early adopters. Which is why i can never participate in any high tech purchase as an early adopter. Esp. not a 100k + purchase.

hopefully, there will soon be a flood of HD vids on youtube showing it was worthwhile.
and im confident eventualy, reliability will be better than the Consumer Reports' "average" level. Altho i dont think we're there yet.

 

[gpetti]

Let me state again that I think every person on this thread has a valid reason to expect better communication. But reading through this (again), it feels like many people are just getting worked up and feeding off each other. Yes, other people are held up because of what appears to be nonseat issues. A couple. It's conceivable that there could be a specific part or other reason holding them up that doesn't have anything to do with anyone else. I believe one of those people has a paint color that is about impossible to get now. That could be a factor. Who knows? I don't. One is held up who ordered textile seats. Conceivably the textile and leather were made to the same engineering specs that had to be updated after testing revealed some unacceptable (to Tesla) results.

If you've had any dealings with a manufacturing operation, what we're hearing makes absolute sense (though still feels unfair). And I can understand why people who have not dealt with manufacturing are confused and upset. ... back to 'please improve communication here'.

Took my own advice and read your post more carefully. I hear what you are saying but I think you will find that everyone in this thread had a build that started prior to the December 2 date (when they abruptly stopped building and essentially cancelled delivery dates). Mine was all but on the truck for delivery. After a time, a few more started going into build and I'm not sure if they fall into this group or not but until the email from Jerome nothing seemed to be coming through. Our group of cars has a variety of geographies and option types - particularly seats. Consensus seems to be that when they do come through, none of them will have the Recaro seats so between that and the owners who didn't even ask for Recaro, seats don't seem to be the issue. Admittedly it could be a variety of issues but that doesn't seem likely given we're all in the same, pre-shutdown batch.

 

[bonnie]

and then the post immediately after yours contradicts your last line.

No, actually it does not. Please read it again.

Roblab said that the early Signature cars had problems, but the current ones do not. Quality of the build has steadily increased since those first cars came out on the production line.

 

[Electrometer]

I have a theory as to what is going on with the early build P85D cars. My theory:

1. Pre December cars were built with the "faulty" next gen seats, but not delivered to customers.
2. Tesla determined that there was a problem with the seat air bags and stopped the production line.
3. Tesla re-started the line, substituing the older seats to get the cars built and shipped.
4. The pre-December cars need to be re-worked manually, the next-gen seats need to be removed and then the older seats installed. This is probably a messy and time consuming process and I am guessing that Tesla doesn't have the manpower to divert to this process.
5. Cars with higher VINs are being pumped out of the factory and delivered with the older seats while the early production VINs await rework.

Tesla's systems are probably not set up for the re-work step, so you can't get information as to where the cars are and when they will be done. Hence the poor communication and clueless responses by the DS team.

 

[spentan]

Just an FYI, I'm renting a car through Florida Car Hire and US Car Hire
, their rates are way cheaper than Alamo (who is the company you're renting through).

I'm renting a Chevy Suburban for $30.81 a day. Return date is currently January 1 2015. My DS is still saying late december, as is the website.

 

[randompersonx]

Seats are installed by people, not robots. Whether those people are assigned to the assembly line or a service center, the quality of the installation is the same. This is not a component that requires factory installation or 'it will never be quite the same'. I've had seats in various cars pulled for various reasons and replaced - never once did I think that was something that would be a problem. And never once was it a problem.

To be clear, I am not saying that seats reinstalled at the SC is a deal breaker. It isn't. But I have not even been given that option. I was told absolutely nothing, other than to keep waiting indefinitely. There are others here who didn't even order the new seats who are also stuck in limbo, suggesting another problem.

 

[Jgdixon]

Took my own advice and read your post more carefully. I hear what you are saying but I think you will find that everyone in this thread had a build that started prior to the December 2 date (when they abruptly stopped building and essentially cancelled delivery dates). Mine was all but on the truck for delivery. After a time, a few more started going into build and I'm not sure if they fall into this group or not but until the email from Jerome nothing seemed to be coming through. Our group of cars has a variety of geographies and option types - particularly seats. Consensus seems to be that when they do come through, none of them will have the Recaro seats so between that and the owners who didn't even ask for Recaro, seats don't seem to be the issue. Admittedly it could be a variety of issues but that doesn't seem likely given we're all in the same, pre-shutdown batch.

Greg see Electrometer's post. This is what I think is happening. There are a lot of us in this situation keeping in mind only a small % of owners go on TMC. I for one see getting the heated steering wheel as a bonus, if I don't get it no biggie. As for people concerned about the model year what difference is getting it mid December versus mid January if it is labelled a 2014?

 

[gpetti]

I have a theory as to what is going on with the early build P85D cars. My theory:

1. Pre December cars were built with the "faulty" next gen seats, but not delivered to customers.
2. Tesla determined that there was a problem with the seat air bags and stopped the production line.
3. Tesla re-started the line, substituing the older seats to get the cars built and shipped.
4. The pre-December cars need to be re-worked manually, the next-gen seats need to be removed and then the older seats installed. This is probably a messy and time consuming process and I am guessing that Tesla doesn't have the manpower to divert to this process.
5. Cars with higher VINs are being pumped out of the factory and delivered with the older seats while the early production VINs await rework.

Tesla's systems are probably not set up for the re-work step, so you can't get information as to where the cars are and when they will be done. Hence the poor communication and clueless responses by the DS team.

I think Wk057 made a similar point and this does sound plausible; however, it doesn't explain the couple of owners who are opting for older type seats. I guess its possible they got caught in the net and or as Bonnie suggests they happen to have a different issue - and by coincidence are in this batch. My bet is that there is something else.

- - - Updated - - -

Greg see Electrometer's post. This is what I think is happening. There are a lot of us in this situation keeping in mind only a small % of owners go on TMC. I for one see getting the heated steering wheel as a bonus, if I don't get it no biggie. As for people concerned about the model year what difference is getting it mid December versus mid January if it is labelled a 2014?

Re: the Heated Steering Wheel I think Andrew captures my point of view very well. If I had got the car early and found out that later cars had heated steering wheel I would probably have been annoyed (particularly as I just paid a wack of money to bring my car up to the latest level) but I would have shaken it off and enjoyed the fact that I had my shiny new P85D to drive before those who benefited from the new feature - that is the technology trade off. As it happens, many of these owners will get their cars ahead of me. I don't really care about 2014 versus 2015 but I guess it helps me to justify re-ordering.

 

[v12 to 12v]

I have a simple theory. Tesla's supply chain and delivery channels have been disrupted by the longshoreman and port work slowdown. It started in early November and they have been slowing down work even further as time goes on. This is impacting logistics and shipping to and from the West Coast of the US by land and by sea. I bet Tesla is having a hard time figuring out what to expect.

Are West Coast longshoremen spoiling Christmas? - Mike Elk - POLITICO

 

[gpetti]

Email to Jerome?

Hi, @flyboyzz1 I think you said you had sent an email already? Any chance you could share the text here or via PM? I'm not looking to duplicate it just to have an idea of the approach. Ideally I don't want to write one of my usual novels - if possible - so If I know what points have already been made it might make it simpler. In my case this will be more of a complaint than a request for action as I've already initiated the new order process - effectively giving up my "stalled car", though I think lobbying for improved delivery times for those of us now waiting to February might be in order.

 

[WindyCity]

From the scant communications Tesla reps have sent out, it sounds to me that the problem wasn't with the seats but with the airbags installed in the seats. From what I can glean from the net Tesla wasn't caught up in the nationwide recall of Takata airbags. The company, however, most likely buys off-the-shelf equipment from another third party. It's possible that a) their airbags weren't compatible with the next gen seats, or b) they discovered that they'd received a defective batch and had to swap them out, causing major delays. This could definitely be a beta issue, which early adopters have to be prepared for.

 

[yoyo]

Does not look like limited to pre-December car. There were many cars went into production after Dec 1 and before Dec 8 (email), and they are all still in limbo.
In fact, only 1 confirmed delivery and 2 soon to be delivered?

Something else is wrong. DS simply says it was at the end of the production line, whatever that means, for several days now

I have a theory as to what is going on with the early build P85D cars. My theory:

1. Pre December cars were built with the "faulty" next gen seats, but not delivered to customers.
2. Tesla determined that there was a problem with the seat air bags and stopped the production line.
3. Tesla re-started the line, substituing the older seats to get the cars built and shipped.
4. The pre-December cars need to be re-worked manually, the next-gen seats need to be removed and then the older seats installed. This is probably a messy and time consuming process and I am guessing that Tesla doesn't have the manpower to divert to this process.
5. Cars with higher VINs are being pumped out of the factory and delivered with the older seats while the early production VINs await rework.

Tesla's systems are probably not set up for the re-work step, so you can't get information as to where the cars are and when they will be done. Hence the poor communication and clueless responses by the DS team.

 

[gpetti]

Does not look like limited to pre-December car. There were many cars went into production after Dec 1 and before Dec 8 (email), and they are all still in limbo.
In fact, only 1 confirmed delivery and 2 soon to be delivered?

Something else is wrong. DS simply says it was at the end of the production line, whatever that means, for several days now

I think the big stoppage occurred on December 2 as that is when mine went back into production. Those of us that were notified got told the day after. I know a few trickled into production before the December 8 email but I wasn't sure if they were also frozen.

 

[golfski]

You have zero factual information that replacing the seats after the fact is going to be less in any way than if they'd come from the factory with them. But, okay. If it's important for you to speculate and think the worse, drive yourself crazy, get yourself wound up with worry and anxiety, then have it.

While there may be no fact that SC installed seats are any less than ones installed in the SC than in the factory, there is some precedent to the quality of workmanship in the SC vs. factory. I had my pano roof (front and back cassette) replaced in the SC and it honestly looks like ****. Sure, it works and is sealed correctly (i.e. no water intrusion) but it looks pretty crappy, seals are not lined up properly (visually) and I question its ability to hold up like the one that was installed at the factory. When you are spending this much money on a car, you want and expect it to be perfect.