First Production Cars Delivered Sep 29 at Factory per Elon Tweet

[AnOutsider]

My wife and I visited a store this weekend in fact to look at colors and combinations. Yes, we are very very comfortable finishing our order with the info available right now. Our only dilemma comes if the white seats are available for production models.
My point though is that we all put ourselves in the position we are in. We, for whatever our individual reasons are, chose to put down money on a car that was not yet developed. Don't blame Tesla for not providing information that was never implied to be available on confirmation let alone promised to be available.
I know I sound like a brat and don't mean to be. Healthy discussion, I am buying first round.

We can play this game back and forth all day, but no where was it stated that we WOULDN'T have that info either. For the Model S, we had gobs of info available to go forward. Heck, I got to drive the car beforehand, and that was after having a deposit down for 3+ years. Back then though, my high on Tesla was so firmly in place that I still probably would have configured sight-unseen. This time around, I have some questions and I don't think I'm being unreasonable to expect Tesla to either answer or at least acknowledge that they can't answer just yet. Complete silence is disrespectful IMO and only further breeds the angst that I apparently brought upon myself.

In your case, if you are comfortable with the info you have, that's dine, but please don't dismiss those of us who have questions they'd like answered before making a final decision. Please don't put the blame on us for having a (n IMO) reasonable expectation of information, or at the very least, communication.

 

[Trev Page]

We knew many, many things about Model S when the founders took delivery in early June 2012. There were no questions like: what kind of headlights does it have, what kind of charging equipment does it come with and do the seats fold? This whole, we're going to keep it all really hush hush until we deliver cars thing is new for Model X.

Part of this is Tesla not wanting Model X to cannibalize sales of Model S at this point but also I think it's Elon's true belief of wanting a splashy reveal.

The problem here is that it generates a complete information vacuum and thus generates tons of wild speculation, one look at the Model X mule sightings thread and you get the idea, and eventually sets up a bad precedent for high expectations and let downs when the information is finally made public.

We've seen it so many times, especially with Apple products since they behave just like Tesla does, or is the other way around?

The main difference however is that it's much much harder to keep a car secret when you have to test on public roads and everyone has a cell phone taking pictures of anything unusual and posting it online for everyone to see. The slightest difference in the mule sightings whipped everyone into a frenzy of speculation.

 

[vandacca]

One could also make the argument that Tesla promised folding 2nd/3rd row seats, clearing displaying a slide showing this at the reveal event. It would appear that they may have reneged on that promise, so there is justification in people's reluctance. But as it has been pointed out, getting a refund is an option. I would just prefer very few people to request a refund because I own TSLA stock.

Furthermore, even if you do not own TSLA stock, suggesting people get a refund is not a valid solution. I'm sure we all want a healthy, viable company here and if enough people requested refunds, it would severely harm the company or at the very least limit their ability to perform. Ultimately, a company needs to please their customers, if they don't, they go under as people will take their business elsewhere.

 

[Trev Page]

One could also make the argument that Tesla promised folding 2nd/3rd row seats, clearing displaying a slide showing this at the reveal event. It would appear that they may have reneged on that promise, so there is justification in people's reluctance. But as it has been pointed out, getting a refund is an option. I would just prefer very few people to request a refund because I own TSLA stock.

Furthermore, even if you do not own TSLA stock, suggesting people get a refund is not a valid solution. I'm sure we all want a healthy, viable company here and if enough people requested refunds, it would severely harm the company or at the very least limit their ability to perform. Ultimately, a company needs to please their customers, if they don't, they go under as people will take their business elsewhere.

Very true about the seats however they might have decided to go a different route on this. Elon has been quoted many times as saying the seats were "special", whatever that means, and that they we're harder than the Falcon wings to do at the end of the day. Time will tell soon enough.

 

[sub]

If some people want more info that is understandable. If they choose to cancel their order or drop back in line then someone else will gladly move forward and take their spot. It's not going to affect the company, they have a huge backlog and those that step out of line will most likely get back in line at some point. I'm a share holder as well and I doubt their would be more than a very minor effect on the stock short term if a few people want to wait for more details. I'm not in line, can't get myself to justify the price, but if I were I would be fine with the current information because I don't sweat the small stuff, life is too short. I can't believe some people are putting "folding seats" higher up on their priority list above many more important things including the environment. I will be shocked if the 2nd row seats do not fold or move in some other way.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I can't believe some people are putting "folding seats" higher up on their priority list above many more important things including the environment. I will be shocked if the 2nd row seats do not fold or move in some other way.

I'm all for the environment and that's one of main reasons why I chose the X. If the seats don't fold, then it most likely won't meet my needs and I will either need to have two cars in order to handle all of my use cases.

I would be shocked as well if the second row seats don't fold in some way. If they don't, then the X is no longer an SUV/CUV as it would be severely lacking in utility.

 

[eloder]

While I get your points, there's a certain amount of arrogance displayed by Tesla by assuming that folks would go along with this plan of promising to pay them a lot of money based upon incomplete information. Yes, the reservation is not really a promise to do anything but Tesla has, in my opinion to obligation to proceed in good faith with those who've let Tesla hold onto a sizable chunk of money for many years. Asking those people to now finalize orders without knowing some pretty basic things about the car is a pretty crappy way to treat customers who've demonstrated a lot of faith and patience.

A lot of different products, companies, services, etc. function in a similar manner. Kickstarter products, pre-orders for games, my Amazon Echo I pre-ordered a long time ago. It's no different. Cell phones are probably a big example (even lower-income folk with a lot of financial burdens will order $600+ phones having no idea of exactly how it'll be).

I'm sure you'll probably argue it's different due to the cost, but it's all relative. A $600 preorder for a new smartphone for someone of a lower income isn't much different than dropping $130k of someone with proportionately more wealth. I can only assume that those people who've dropped what was it, some 40k on a sig reservation and are OK holding it interest-free for three years, must have some sort of financial well-being to be able to do that.

I may be wrong but I just view the Model X sig folk in a similar light to those who drop thousands on kickstarter campaigns when those don't even have the security of a refund if they change their mind.

Would I pre-order a car even with no details known? I probably will for the Model 3, but I doubt I would for something more expensive. My risk tolerance is OK for a Model 3 but not something like a Model X. Given my tolerance for risk, I'd be OK if the Model 3 doesn't turn out how I imagine it because I'm sure details will be extremely sparse. As long as it's a bit smaller than the Model S, is electric, goes over 200 miles, and accelerates faster than other econo-EVs and I'll accept it. That's just about the same level of detail Model 3 reservers had, so if people are no longer willing to take the risk within Tesla's means of communication, then they should take the deferral allowed by their reservation.

I'm sure everyone would wish that all Model X details would be known instantly, but that's just not how Tesla operates right now for better or for worse. They obviously are not trying to impact Model S orders by being so sparse in details, but if people aren't a fan of it then there's always the option of deferral. With an estimated 27k+ pre-orders, Tesla doesn't need to fight for customers until the ramp-up is underway.

 

[Mark Z]

I certainly respect that your order requires no speculation. That is your choice. However, to note, if you are one of the early Signature configureres, either Tesla has filled you in on the details under NDA, or I would argue there are tons on unknowns regarding the product you have ordered.

The only speculation for me was the reflective qualities of the Figured Ash Wood Décor. I asked Tesla additional questions about it and received more detail that gave me confidence to take the chance on choosing what I personally was most impressed with, when visiting the Design Studio. Tesla Motors said to trust what is seen in the Design Studio when making decisions. The challenge can be the accuracy that the artists and IT people put into the web pages. The posts at Signature X Seat, Belt and Interior Colors show the differences between the Model S and X design studio color and shading. As a retired engineer, I can be obsessed with detail, but that's just part of the process. When you are facing a deadline to make decisions, it sometimes requires dropping everything and immersing oneself into the process of research. I have stated at the Tesla Forum, my only disappointment was the incorrect information at the Design Studio during the first hours of operation that showed "White Leather Seats". Tesla Motors took that text down and replaced it with "Ultra White Seats" hours later. Later that day I learned the material was synthetic. A phone call or email reply was always given within hours by an assigned individual who continues to be very enjoyable to communicate with. She doesn't know all the answers either, but she has done her best to find out and has provided me that information. To help others, I have spent hours posting data and helped Bjørn with screens for his video. I did similar activity when purchasing a Segway in 2003, a Chevrolet Volt in 2010 and the Model S Signature in 2012. While I attempt to be as accurate as possible, some error can occur in posting. Individuals reading these threads would be wise to keep reading, to search for the corrective posts and latest information. If I had editing powers beyond the limited time given, I could go back and make corrections. I even sent a PM to the administrator at TMC to make a critical change and it has not been done. I am more upset over an error in my post that I cannot correct, then the lack of information from Tesla that does get an answer after their research to find the answer.

In regard to "tons on unknowns", I would argue that the forum and listening to others can be far more informative than when a corporation may be attempting to time their announcements for the media rather than letting the proverbial cat out of the bag and possibly lose precious shareholder value. Let me be clear, I have never been shown or asked to sign an NDA. I have shared the facts I know, unless specifically asked to only share what they know to be accurate. Tesla employees don't have all the information either. A few told me they learned about the interior design from the sharing of the Design Studio screens by the customers. The majority of the employees don't work in the design department, so it is understandable that the employees outside the department would not know. No one at an Apple Store knows the precise facts until they are released at a corporate announcement, such as Apple recently announcing the new 12.9" iPad with Pencil and external keyboard. Of course I feel Tesla should have sent a FedEx package to each buyer with the two wood samples and a swath of the synthetic seat material. But who knows if some of these materials are still being tweaked. A sample sent today might be improved before production. These are just my thoughts, but with a possibility of change, it would be a reasonable explanation for Tesla to not provide the new choices at the Tesla Stores until the first production vehicles are shipped.

In summary, my order is confirmed, the VIN issued and I continue to answer some questions on the forums to help share what I know. As soon as the Model X is delivered, a detailed explanation of the reflective quality of the Figured Ash Wood Décor and other details can be posted with photos that will help many here and at other forums where people learn the precise details they seek to buy their own Tesla electric vehicle in the future. Those who are new to the technology are the ones who appreciate the facts that are known, without excessive speculation on the unknown. It will be interesting to view the difference in comments between the various forums after the same facts about Model X are shared. The excitement of delivery is only the beginning. Just like the Segway, Volt, or Model S, everywhere we travel with new technology can be a day of questions and answers. You can choose to enjoy sharing the great things about an invention, or complain about it's shortcomings. I prefer to share what is great about a product and keep looking forward to the improvements that are sent automatically through software or the improved hardware that is purchased to enable new capabilities that will inspire the other interested buyers as we share the experience.

 

[brucet999]

In summary, my order is confirmed, the VIN issued and I continue to answer some questions on the forums to help share what I know.

Can you tell us whether 360º view parking assist made it into the X?

Have the side sensors been upgraded to radar instead of the short range sensors in present day Model S?

Thanks

 

[Krugerrand]

That is an option, not the option, though.

And a perfectly fine option.

The other option is to do your legal utmost to gain early access to information, insight and understanding that Tesla is not willingly departing with yet. Obviously many of us here are choosing that option - because even when companies are ready to depart with new product information, there is always the next round they are holding close to their chests, which might interest us in our own decision making.

Yes, let's play the what if game all day long and never make a decision. That's also an option.

Tesla has their interests and we have ours. Somewhere along the middle they meet. That's only fair.

Now things need to be fair? Really? Are we five?

Obviously my comment was related to those cases where Tesla - or other companies - have not announced product changes beforehand.

If you're going to correct me about an 'an' versus a 'the', then I'm going to require you to be very specific when making broad comments like you did and am not going to accept a comeback of an 'obviously I was referring to such and such'. That's only fair, don't you think?

Metaphor, obviously. As for controlling the forum, I have no such desire. I am expressing my views, as are you. Do I hope some of those views affect, IMO, positive change? Of course. Control? No.

Obviously. And yes you do have a desire. Yep, I sometimes express my views, more times than not I make those funnies you dislike. What I'm not doing is negatively characterizing the forum (which you've done) and going on about how it needs to change to make it the way you think it should be. That, sir, is a form of (trying to) control things.