A few reasons why ev range seem more of a concern. People are used to having better range at high speeds instead of in traffic jams in a gas car, you can't top up an ev to full in 3 minutes, and the ultra efficient ev drivetrain + relatively small energy storage means factors that affect fuel economy are magnified.
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For prospective EV buyers: "How much range will I actually get?"
- Thread starter 3sr+buyer
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I don't think that's what it is, it's the discrepancy between rated/battery degradation and actual. Coming from a 2016 truck I could go two weeks driving 30 miles a day before filling up. Everyone knows trucks aren't the best on mpg and I think my average was 14mpg. My 2019 model 3 that I just got barely makes it 5 days from 80% driving the same distance. I have to keep it below 90% which hurts the range and I have to factor in the rated is 240 for SR+/supposedly 12.6% degradation which keeps going up every few days it was 11.8% last week/the cold weather/acceleration/regen braking ect. ICE owners don't have to account for all that on the surface. After all that factoring I should be at a 30 range loss and 12.6% degradation I'm sitting on 168 roughly.
Which in the grand scheme isn't terrible I just won't be driving very far at all, driving 8 hours in my truck was 2 stops and driving 6 hours in the model 3 was 3 to 4 stops. With ICE you're stopping to fill for maybe 10 mins and in a model 3 you're charging for longer. It's trading savings vs time on a road trip. I'm not mad at it at all but the discrepancy can be off putting or a shock to people.
And that's why EVs are still best for people with home or dedicated charging spots in their apartment or work. If you can plug it in overnight whenever you want, there's no such problem as "I need to charge it every 5 days instead of 14 days"
But yes, you're right, it is a real problem and down side of EVs for owners with no dedicated charging.
S&B's M3
Member
I consume 1.2 to 1.6 kw miles for every actual mile driven depending on *driving conditions and sentry usage. So if my remaining kw mile range is 200, I will get somewhere between 125 and 167 actual miles* with an overall average of 143.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
Folks need to change their thinking of what EV's are.
It's a super-efficient 100 MPG car with a 3 gallon "tank". It is thus much more sensitive to things that affect efficiency. Your truck doesn't mind burning an entire extra gallon of fuel heating the cabin in the winter because it's already so inefficient that it has a massive 20 gallon tank. Spending the same energy on the EV uses 1/3rd of the tank.
One, you're not charging at home? You only charge once every 5 days? Two, an SR+ is not really ideal for comparing to a vehicle with a 30gallon tank. Three, if you have a 3hr bladder, then road-tripping in an EV will take longer. If your bladder is in the 2hr range, you might find road-tripping in an EV takes no additional time. Don't worry, as you get older, your bladder will get smaller, and you'll be perfect for roadtripping an EV.
Look at me, I'm old, I have a small bladder, I drove 600 miles from Maine to Baltimore to attend an event at my university, took me just under 10hrs in my LR-AWD 3. I used to drive my Saab the same 600 miles when in college 40yrs ago, and it also took me just under 10hrs. I literally stopped at the same rest stops! They all have superchargers!
One advantage about EV refueling. Not every minute is the same. In your truck, you're supposed to stand there and watch the fuel go in, just in case the thing overflows. In an EV, you plug in and walk away, so those 10mins standing at the fuel handle with your truck, instead you can go and relieve that bladder and buy a coffee and a snack. I remember in my Saab, I'd refuel, then I'd drive over and park, to use the toilet, get a coffee/snack. So, that's 10mins for refueling AND 10mins for toilet, coffee/snack. In an EV, that's all the same time, so I find EV roadtripping to be quite comparable to my ICE.
I find road trips better in an EV. The time spent charging is an actual break, instead of holding the gas pump handle huffing fumes.
Pumping gas isn't *that* bad, until it's zero degrees outside and super windy. Then it feels like a torture chamber.
My take is... the marginal increase of long road trip time in an EV is far more than made up for by the 52 gas station stops you *didn't* have to make the rest of the year. But even if that weren't the case, I still prefer supercharging to gas stations when it comes to road trips.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
I've not tried it, and it'll depend on how hard you lean on the heater, but my usual calculation says 300 miles - 50 for speed - 50 for temp == 200 miles
If you're able to be plugged in before you start and pre-warm the car, you'll go a lot farther than jumping in a fully-frozen vehicle and having to heat both it and the battery up. I think the severe-weather folks quickly align to keeping EV's garaged.
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Depends a lot on how much you use the cabin heater.
Nah I had the charging issue because of my lack of research beforehand. I knew at some point tesla did bundle mobile chargers and banked on that and didn't get one. My point was my truck had a 26 gallon tank not 30 and my average was 14-16 miles to the gallon and is very inefficient and the way I drove it was very inefficient. Gas vehicles at least some of them get better milage when you coast about 70mph. Still with that and towing I stopped just as much as my SR+ which is very odd.
As I said though the cost savings make up for it in the long run but it can disorienting to a new EV user. Also not everyone has a LR the basic bread and butter is we have EVs if the base model is getting way way less than advertised (which is to be expected to some degree) why would someone want to invest into a supposedly LR model. It still baffles me I don't even get 180 miles before having to charge back up. However, not to be confused I do understand why that is.
Also that's an unfair comparison. In a EV you're plugging in and walking away but you're still using as much time as a ICE if you're going beyond a 90% charge on a road trip even with super charging. The difference is the ICE person has to relocate the vehicle afterwards and the time saved isn't much different unless you're flat out picking up a ordered meal.
This is new information to me. I never read anything about 2020s suffering from worse degradation than other years. Could you please elaborate or simply link some additional info? I can't seem to find anything related, but maybe I'm just being obtuse.
If it's -15F, I'm not going out there!
This is me yesterday. I went skiing up at Sugarloaf, ME.
On the way there, I took surface roads, averaging about 55mph. On the way, home, I took a faster route averaging 65+mph, with a 30mile section from about mile 90 to mile 120, on the highway going 80mph. So, what does it mean?
EPA estimates predict 43.2% SOC used, and I used 45.2% at around freezing temps. Not bad, really. I had my seat heater on, but the HVAC off, since I was dressed for skiing!
Also, 133.6 miles using 45.2% indicates a range of 296miles.
ZenRockGarden
Active Member
The best-use for an EV in a cold climate is to park in garage and plug in each evening. Schedule it to charge in the morning prior to departure - it'll be as full as desired and warm to go. You literally do nothing but park and plug in each evening. 10 seconds of time "filling" the car.
finman100
Member
this. every thing about this post is how it works. the FUD out there doesn't want gas burners to know these things.
charge on!
I have to admit to not having any experience of US gas stations nor roads, but I traveled across Europe on numerous occasions and racked up a lot of miles. Still, it never took me "10mins standing at the fuel handle" to refuel a gas car. Not even by adding up the pulling in to the pump, the actual refuelling and paying I'd get to 10 minutes. I can imagine vehicular traffic is different in the US and maybe gas pumps are slower (as an example, I queued only once or twice at a gas station in my lifetime, probably not longer than 3-5 minutes), but I'm convinced your trucks do not have that large tanks.
finman100
Member
It would take me a while to find and organize. They’re mostly from Reddit conversations and comments I’ve found over the last 2.5 years of ownership. Almost every person I’ve asked with a car built around 2020 that had an EPA rated range of 322 miles are at similar levels of degradation.
I’m going to submit a thread right now with a poll to get more info. Thanks for reminding me, I’ve been wanting to do this for a while.
Edit: here’s the thread - Those with a 2020 Long Range that had a 322 mile EPA rated range, how many miles does your car now show at 100% charge?
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Hmmm....I've driven extensively in Europe, as a consultant, even in Switzerland, and I don't recall European pumps being faster than US pumps. Then again, European pumps were pumping liters, so I could have been confused.
The OP says his pickup truck had a 26gallon tank. I picked up my eurodelivery BMW in München, and it had a 16gallon tank, and the refuel light came on at 14gallons, so refueling a pickup is going to require 2x as much fuel as your typical Euro-sedan. Either way, refueling requires standing by your vehicle, which you don't have to do when refueling your EV.
brainhouston
Active Member
This!
Real issue is that any ICE car i drove over years will get u at least 300mi of range, so nobody cares if it meets EPA...
Most EVs are below 300 EPA n that results in barely 150-200mi 0-100% real range n even less since u don't ever go to extremes...
We need more charging stations n more Real range so something like ~400 EPA at least
Looking forward to owning 400mi range MS
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