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Four Rial Lugano 19" wheels bent in two weeks - are they up to the task?

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There is a discussion of bad roads, low profile tires and repetitive wheel damage on Click and Clack. A guy in NYC was having a similar problem as VGRINSPUN. Mercedes (big one, I forget the model) with 21 inch wheels and 30 profile tires, kept blowing the tires and bending the rims. I lived in PA a few years ago and the roads were not great (better than Michigan's though). One PSI difference will not have a significant effect on the performance of the tire, you can usually vary this by a few pounds either way, and be just fine. The wear pattern will tell you if you are too low (edge wear) or too high (center wear) for your type of driving conditions. However, if you find sharp or deep pot holes at speed, it will not matter what the pressure is- the impact just compresses the air a bit, the force is distributed over a small area, and the impact is transferred through the tire to the wheel (not certain but I think this is evident in the tire sidewall scuffing). This is a bummer, as the pictures show, but it is not likely to be the Rial's. Most of the aluminum alloys are either aluminum-magnesium and a few other elements, or aluminum-silicon (like aircraft aluminum alloys). Both of these types of materials are pretty tough but not as tough as steels, of course. You might try going to a 40 section tire.
 
The wear pattern will tell you if you are too low (edge wear)

This will definately happen.

or too high (center wear)

This is unlikely to happen in a modern quality radial car tire. Most, not all, radial car tires are made with an almost flat crown. The "centre wear at high pressure warning" is mostly a kind of left-over from bias-ply tire days.

Impact force is transmitted mostly through the air of the tire, not the carcass (which is there mainly to contain the air pressure).

If the air pressure is high then there is a better chance that the tires won't get a pinch shock (which often causes an immediate deflation). The wheels may be bent due to the force of the impact, but that's a better outcome than having an instant deflation.
 
For another data point, I just returned from the service center and they said that both wheels on the passenger side (Tesla stock 19s) are bent. I hit a nasty pothole in the crazy rainstorm we had last week (couldn't see it, it was underwater and dark out), and I assume it was from that since the impact was pretty significant. I was traveling about 45mph and there was no damage to my tires, just the rims. They said the damage was minor, and not a safety issue but they asked if I had noticed any vibration (I hadn't). I can't see the damage on the side facing out, so it must be on the inner side of the wheel. No problems with my Rial Luganos over the winter though, so I still think they are a good wheel and it's just hit or miss with the pothole damage.
 
Few updates to my story, if anybody is interested...

After having 4 Rial Luganos bent in the span of 8 days, I decided to do the rest of winter driving on Tesla 19" Cyclone wheels, while continuing working with Tire Rack to send damaged Rial Lugano's to the manufacturer for testing.

Ironically, while traveling home from the shop that installed my Blizzaks on Tesla 19" Cyclone wheels, after mere 2 minutes of driving, I managed to hit very substantial pothole at about 65 mph. Just to clarify, all pot holes that I have described were not the potholes filled with temporary compound resulting in uneven surface, but actual completely open pot holes big enough to at least partially drop the wheel down into the pot hole. This is admittedly subjective, but the impact was much stronger than from any of the potholes hit with Lugano's, and both the size and much higher speed (65 mph vs. 35 with Luganos) probably played the role. The impact did not bent the Tesla wheels, and I completed winter driving with this new set-up without any further incident.

Just to note on the Youlikeadajuice experience, when I was picking my 19" Cyclones at SC, I was told that cyclones are Tesla's most resilient wheels, and they see more damage with the 19" stock wheels then with the Cyclones.

I was continuing pressing Tire Rack to ensure that damaged wheels are tested by the manufacturer. I was initially told that I need to send my wheels back to TR and they will send them to Poland for testing by the manufacturer. After I've sent the damage wheels to TR, I was told that the manufacturer did not find any defects with the wheels and rejected the warranty claim. Since I was told that wheels will be tested by the manufacturer, I requested TR to see the copy of the testing results, at which point TR reimbursed me for Rial Lugano's that I bought from them. I suspect that the manufacturer did not do any testing on the wheels, and really wonder how they can determine that there are no defects without doing some testing?? By that time I was really tired of the endeavor, and just accepted the credit from the TR.

After some winter driving on both sets, I am absolutely convinced that Tesla Cyclones are much more robust that Rial Lugano's, partly because of the geometry (Luganos are 8.5" wide, while Cyclones are 8.0" wide, so the inside lip of the Cyclones cantilevered less than Lugano's), and probably because of better material. The Cyclones, however are almost 4 times more expensive. Ultimately, though, I feel safer with the Cyclones...

Unfortunately, my story with bent wheels did not end here. Amazingly, after driving decades without a single incident of bent wheels on other vehicles, I managed also to bent three 21" wheels after the crazy storms washed out temporary compound that was patching myriad of pot holes in our area. There were two incidents, one during the nighttime, when I noticed the pot hole too late to dodge it (at about 45 mph), and another during early morning commute, when I did not noticed the pot hole because of rising sun glare (about 55 mph). After first incident I noticed very slight shaking at speeds in excess of 75mph, but after second episode the shaking was present at all speeds starting from about 30 mph. The incidents also resulted in damage to the tires: sidewall bubbles were blown on three out of four tires. I took the car to the local wheel place and asked them to check all four wheels. They determined that three wheels were bend, removed tires, straightened the wheels, re-mounted and re-balanced the (new) tires/wheels.

Without a doubt the 21" are much more susceptible to the pot hole damage than the 19". So you can compare and judge for your self, I am enclosing two pictures, the first is of the bent 19" Lugano, the second is of the bent 21"Turbine wheel (key: the only way you could visibly determine that the 21" Turbines were bent is to measure diameter at 90 degrees to each other).
 

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Few updates to my story, if anybody is interested...

After having 4 Rial Luganos bent in the span of 8 days, I decided to do the rest of winter driving on Tesla 19" Cyclone wheels, while continuing working with Tire Rack to send damaged Rial Lugano's to the manufacturer for testing.

Ironically, while traveling home from the shop that installed my Blizzaks on Tesla 19" Cyclone wheels, after mere 2 minutes of driving, I managed to hit very substantial pothole at about 65 mph. Just to clarify, all pot holes that I have described were not the potholes filled with temporary compound resulting in uneven surface, but actual completely open pot holes big enough to at least partially drop the wheel down into the pot hole. This is admittedly subjective, but the impact was much stronger than from any of the potholes hit with Lugano's, and both the size and much higher speed (65 mph vs. 35 with Luganos) probably played the role. The impact did not bent the Tesla wheels, and I completed winter driving with this new set-up without any further incident.

Just to note on the Youlikeadajuice experience, when I was picking my 19" Cyclones at SC, I was told that cyclones are Tesla's most resilient wheels, and they see more damage with the 19" stock wheels then with the Cyclones.

I was continuing pressing Tire Rack to ensure that damaged wheels are tested by the manufacturer. I was initially told that I need to send my wheels back to TR and they will send them to Poland for testing by the manufacturer. After I've sent the damage wheels to TR, I was told that the manufacturer did not find any defects with the wheels and rejected the warranty claim. Since I was told that wheels will be tested by the manufacturer, I requested TR to see the copy of the testing results, at which point TR reimbursed me for Rial Lugano's that I bought from them. I suspect that the manufacturer did not do any testing on the wheels, and really wonder how they can determine that there are no defects without doing some testing?? By that time I was really tired of the endeavor, and just accepted the credit from the TR.

After some winter driving on both sets, I am absolutely convinced that Tesla Cyclones are much more robust that Rial Lugano's, partly because of the geometry (Luganos are 8.5" wide, while Cyclones are 8.0" wide, so the inside lip of the Cyclones cantilevered less than Lugano's), and probably because of better material. The Cyclones, however are almost 4 times more expensive. Ultimately, though, I feel safer with the Cyclones...

Unfortunately, my story with bent wheels did not end here. Amazingly, after driving decades without a single incident of bent wheels on other vehicles, I managed also to bent three 21" wheels after the crazy storms washed out temporary compound that was patching myriad of pot holes in our area. There were two incidents, one during the nighttime, when I noticed the pot hole too late to dodge it (at about 45 mph), and another during early morning commute, when I did not noticed the pot hole because of rising sun glare (about 55 mph). After first incident I noticed very slight shaking at speeds in excess of 75mph, but after second episode the shaking was present at all speeds starting from about 30 mph. The incidents also resulted in damage to the tires: sidewall bubbles were blown on three out of four tires. I took the car to the local wheel place and asked them to check all four wheels. They determined that three wheels were bend, removed tires, straightened the wheels, re-mounted and re-balanced the (new) tires/wheels.

Without a doubt the 21" are much more susceptible to the pot hole damage than the 19". So you can compare and judge for your self, I am enclosing two pictures, the first is of the bent 19" Lugano, the second is of the bent 21"Turbine wheel (key: the only way you could visibly determine that the 21" Cyclones were bent is to measure diameter at 90 degrees to each other).

how often do you check the air in your tires? Are you keeping your tires at recommended PSI? Granted the Rial's are probably just can't handle the weight of the MS, but what I'm wondering is if your psi is always low, making the tire "softer" and thus more susceptible to allowing a pothole to pinch the tire inward enough to straight up dent and bend the rims.

I have 47k miles on my P85, and I have hit some extreme potholes at all kinds of speeds. 30-100mph. I just put aftermarket rims on this mornign so I had a good look at my OEM 19s (standard, not cyclone) and they look great and they allowed me to get a solid 47k miles on my original tires before I replaced them today with aftermarket rims and wheels. I still could have got several more thousand miles out of my original 19" tires too (my treads were about 4/32", I could have left them to 2-3/32" before I replaced them but I don't mess around with tires especially at the faster speeds in rainy weather). But my point of this is that about every 2 weeks or so I need to top up my psi. I find that they slowly leak. I usually find all 4 of them equally down to about 42 or 41 psi and I need to pump them back up to 45psi at least once a month. If you leave it unchecked and it slowly drains, it'll be so soft and cushion-y that yes I can see how rims can get smacked directly by a pothole through the tire and bent easily, especially if the rims can't handle the force of the impact due to the weight/momentum. I am actually quite surprised I never had any issues. But like I said i'm very diligent about keeping them at exactly 45psi.
 
Ha, Yobigd20, salute from another tire pressure fanatic, I check the pressure weekly, and keep it at factory specs, 38/40 for summers, 45 psi on all four corners for winters. Incidentally, your experience does not contradict my personal conclusion - Tesla wheels are much stronger than Luganos.
 
(LMB spouse)

Somewhat off-topic, but do the turbines come in left and right or are all four rims the same? If the latter, does this mean the wheels look different on each side of the car? Sorry if this is a silly question. It would be obvious if I had an example in front of me. Thanks.
 
The Rials and Tesla 21" turbines and 19" cyclones are all the same (no right and left). I assume the sportlines are the same.

(LMB spouse)

Somewhat off-topic, but do the turbines come in left and right or are all four rims the same? If the latter, does this mean the wheels look different on each side of the car? Sorry if this is a silly question. It would be obvious if I had an example in front of me. Thanks.
 
I had been meaning to ask the same thing, but I found a picture somewhere on here that showed each side of the same car with them and proved they weren't directional. I think it's really a shame when you design a wheel that looks directional not to make a left and right version of it. For that reason I would probably try to pick a different wheel, (the insane price of the Tesla OEM wheels doesn't help matters either!)
 
the insane price of the Tesla OEM wheels doesn't help matters either!

the entire set of 4 TSportline TST wheels are cheaper than a single Tesla 21" OEM wheel. The TSportlines are manufacturered to OEM spec with regards to center bore size too, so no centering ring required. They accept factory cap and lug nuts too. This makes them far superior to any other aftermarket wheel. I seriously doubt the directionality of the wheels have any effect whatsoever on performance or efficiency.
 
I'm sure they don't cahnge performance or efficiency, though to be honest, they're shaped like a fan, so I'd expect some difference in brake cooling...

The main problem with the lack of a right vs left is that they will always look "wrong" to someone on one side of the car or the other (which ever way you personally think they look "right")

My preference would be for one of the many non-directional designs for that reason.