FSD 11.4.4 wide release??

[Puma2020]

As a software engineer, I have a fair appreciation of what is likely happening in the car. There are times we have a "discussion" on what it did.
I was pleasantly surprised today when on a rural road, a car pulled out of a side street, crossed in front of me and drove up (towards me) in their lane.
I reacted, expecting the car to make a panic stop, as it was closer than most of the other panic stops. It didn't even flinched. Very surprised at how well it handled the issue.
Not quite ready for prime time but it's still a student driver and improving. Maybe up to a 2nd month or even possibly a 3rd month student driver.

 

[TenKOhms]

As a software engineer, I have a fair appreciation of what is likely happening in the car. There are times we have a "discussion" on what it did.
I was pleasantly surprised today when on a rural road, a car pulled out of a side street, crossed in front of me and drove up (towards me) in their lane.
I reacted, expecting the car to make a panic stop, as it was closer than most of the other panic stops. It didn't even flinched. Very surprised at how well it handled the issue.
Not quite ready for prime time but it's still a student driver and improving. Maybe up to a 2nd month or even possibly a 3rd month student driver.

Half of us are sw engineers here

 

[lolder]

This darting into right turn lanes at highway speeds make this version very dangerous. They must know about it so the lack of a fix is omlnous.

 

[kabin]

Half of us are sw engineers here

Plus it's just an enthusiast forum.

 

[Dewg]

This darting into right turn lanes at highway speeds make this version very dangerous. They must know about it so the lack of a fix is omlnous.

It's not hard coded, so it's not easy to fix. It's a neural net and has to be trained. Imagine someone telling you that the sky is in fact green and the leaves of trees are blue. How long before you don't make a mistake when thinking about the color of those things?

 

[tmoz]

I just look at Chuck Cooks youtube page to see when he gets the latest version. So far, no 4.4 for Chuck. I'm surprised he doesn't have it yet.

 

[lolder]

Had a longer 30 mile drive today on 4.4 and it's worse than 4.3. Drastic inappropriate lane changes, braking for cars stopped at 4 lane crossovers. It tried to change into a center lane with a car in it much too close. Scarry, scarry, scarry. Sorry, the truth must be told.

 

[unk45]

After ~150 miles on 11.4.4 I have a perspective:
THE GOOD :
-on controlled access highways with light traffic the smoothness is impressive;
- when express lanes appear the car automatically takes them;
- acceleration from stop lights is smooth and rapid;
- traffic circles are handled as would a good human.
THE BAD:
- propensity to randomly change lanes continues;
- occasionally it fails to take required turns.
THE UGLY:
- when cars ahead make improper turns a panic disconnect happens;
- if two cars ahead make improper moves (in Miami, so normal) it sees one but not both;
- unprotected left turns are deceptive, it seems prudent the suddenly tried to dart in front of an incoming vehicle.

On balance it’s still largely useless or worse in dense unban traffic, it’s nearly excellent on uncrowded multi-lane highways.

It won’t try to auto park, so that’s worse than in ancient days.

 

[JB47394]

I just look at Chuck Cooks youtube page to see when he gets the latest version. So far, no 4.4 for Chuck. I'm surprised he doesn't have it yet.

Chuck's been out of town. He recently popped up on a YouTube channel in Canada, if I recall correctly.

Edit: Aaaaand he just posted a new video with 11.4.4 two hours ago.

 

[Supcom]

After ~150 miles on 11.4.4 I have a perspective:
THE GOOD :
-on controlled access highways with light traffic the smoothness is impressive;
- when express lanes appear the car automatically takes them;
- acceleration from stop lights is smooth and rapid;
- traffic circles are handled as would a good human.
THE BAD:
- propensity to randomly change lanes continues;
- occasionally it fails to take required turns.
THE UGLY:
- when cars ahead make improper turns a panic disconnect happens;
- if two cars ahead make improper moves (in Miami, so normal) it sees one but not both;
- unprotected left turns are deceptive, it seems prudent the suddenly tried to dart in front of an incoming vehicle.

On balance it’s still largely useless or worse in dense unban traffic, it’s nearly excellent on uncrowded multi-lane highways.

It won’t try to auto park, so that’s worse than in ancient days.

What's an "improper turn"? I haven't had 11.4.4 panic on me yet.

I've used autopark on 11.4.4 and it worked OK. Still takes a couple iterations, but as good (or bad) as it was before it was temporarily disabled. My car has USS, though.

 

[unk45]

What's an "improper turn"? I haven't had 11.4.4 panic on me yet.

I've used autopark on 11.4.4 and it worked OK. Still takes a couple iterations, but as good (or bad) as it was before it was temporarily disabled. My car has USS, though.

“Improper turns” were three occasions that the entry to turn tried to climb over a curb, one in which it tried to turn into an opposite direction lane. None had happened with prior versions.

 

[mntcottjwd]

FSD continues to improve. With 11.4.4 had more problems on my sub division unmarked street with the car taking the middle of the road and playing chicken with on coming traffic. On the interstate when there is three lines it moves to the middle and then becomes a safety issue because it drives the speed limit increasing the folks who pass on the left and right. The car also has trouble in some school zones my most common intervention.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

THE UGLY:

- if two cars ahead make improper moves (in Miami, so normal) it sees one but not both;

A local YouTuber posts updates of drives as the software improves and as his routes include my neighbourhood I watch. On v11.3.3 he was going through a tricky intersection. The car navigated into the dedicated, controlled, left turn lane which has median on both sides and its own light cycle. The dedicated lane is also not at right angles to traffic coming from the right but at an odd angle (with the left lane for cars in the opposite direction also at a strange angle and offset to the right, not across from this left turn lane.

A car, which either entered on or was still in the intersection during its red light, made the left turn across in front of the Tesla after the tesla's light turned green and it started to make the legal turn. The tesla reacted appropriately. Still while making the turn, a car in the opposite direction ran their red light by making a right turn on red right into the tesla's path. The driver took over because the tesla didn't back off (it had the right of way but it looks like it would have kept going and collided without intervention.)

As you said, it was as if it could manage one bad move by another driver while going through on a green light, but couldn't see or manage the second bad behaviour.

Here's the intersection:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Here's the video at the time stamp.

 

[unk45]

A local YouTuber posts updates of drives as the software improves and as his routes include my neighbourhood I watch. On v11.3.3 he was going through a tricky intersection. The car navigated into the dedicated, controlled, left turn lane which has median on both sides and its own light cycle. The dedicated lane is also not at right angles to traffic coming from the right but at an odd angle (with the left lane for cars in the opposite direction also at a strange angle and offset to the right, not across from this left turn lane.

A car, which either entered on or was still in the intersection during its red light, made the left turn across in front of the Tesla after the tesla's light turned green and it started to make the legal turn. The tesla reacted appropriately. Still while making the turn, a car in the opposite direction ran their red light by making a right turn on red right into the tesla's path. The driver took over because the tesla didn't back off (it had the right of way but it looks like it would have kept going and collided without intervention.)

As you said, it was as if it could manage one bad move by another driver while going through on a green light, but couldn't see or manage the second bad behaviour.

Here's the intersection:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Here's the video at the time stamp.

Thank you for the post. I did not record mine so have no evidence, however it was quite similar in that the second car wa behind the first at the beginning, visible to my human eyes, but apparently not to the cars cameras. These are edge cases, no doubt but very common in urban conglomerations dominated by people who have not grownup with US-style rules and traffic controls. Frankly I suspect that market-agnostic FSD might never happen. Even humans comfortable in one environment are often unable to cope with another. Everyone who's multinational probably understands those issues.

 

[Supcom]

“Improper turns” were three occasions that the entry to turn tried to climb over a curb, one in which it tried to turn into an opposite direction lane. None had happened with prior versions.

I guess you understand what you wrote, but I'm sure having difficulty with deciphering, "the entry to turn tried to climb over a curb." I'll just move on.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

Even humans comfortable in one environment are often unable to cope with another. Everyone who's multinational probably understands those issues.

When it is one transgression after another, I can almost forgive a human for avoiding the first near-miss and while distracted for split seconds by the 'what might have happened' and double checking to see if they have the right of way, ending up in an accident when a second car breaks the rules.

I'm less forgiving of an AV missing the second transgression since it should not be mentally distracted after the first transgression. It should be as ready for transgression #2 and it was for transgression #1. The promise of AV is the car is never tired or distracted, it is always on task. That is why AV driving is supposed to be safer than human driving.

 

[nvx1977]

I guess you understand what you wrote, but I'm sure having difficulty with deciphering, "the entry to turn tried to climb over a curb." I'll just move on.

clearly a case of English as a second language, but pretty sure the poster means: when initiating a turn, the car jumped the curb.

 

[PianoAl]

5. Unnecessary signaling.

I'm so puzzled as to why this hasn't been fixed. I'd think:

If changing lanes or turning onto a different road
blinker
else
no blinker.

But there must be some other logic involved that's unrelated to the actual need for the blinker.

 

[JB47394]

I'm so puzzled as to why this hasn't been fixed. I'd think:

Probably because they have a lot of higher priority items taking up their time - and they don't seem to have a good handle on those either.

What puzzles me is why they keep flogging away at the same problems without ever solving them. They seem to improve a little here and degrade a little there. It's like they're trying to throw a bunch of inputs into a big neural net and expect it to create control outputs because they have so much great data. People talk about not knowing exactly what's going on inside these big networks, and I think that's indicative of a fundamental flaw. How do you fix/tune something when you don't know how it works? You don't. Instead, you just keep changing things. Sometimes things get better and sometimes they get worse. I've had that experience with heuristic software that involved lots of math. When the math exceeded my capacity to understand, I ended up changing things and hoping. I continued that until I buckled down and either learned the math or created a solution that worked via a mechanism that I did understand.

 

[Dewg]

I'm so puzzled as to why this hasn't been fixed. I'd think:

If changing lanes or turning onto a different road
blinker
else
no blinker.

But there must be some other logic involved that's unrelated to the actual need for the blinker.

You actually perfectly described a hard coded function. IF/THEN/ELSE statements. Many of the hard coded planner functions are being moved to neural networks, so instead of IF/THEN, the planner is taking in data from the ON, and trying to make a decision based on training. The more training, the better decisions.

Try not to think of this as "They need to fix this". Let's look at it this way. When you were in school, and the teacher put up a new formula, did you immediately get it and use that formula properly, perfectly, every time after that? Most people don't. They need time to work the formula, see different applications of the formula, solve various word problems using the formula. If you made a mistake, why doesn't the teacher just fix you? Your brain (neural net) needs sample data, training, and time to get it right. You do eventually get it.

I know this is an overly simplified metaphor, but I hope it helps some people understand why Tesla doesn't just "fix" things.