Agreed - very subjective. For me, all of the releases since 10.6 seem worse, not better.Always find it interesting how release feedback varies from person to person. For "me" 10.8.1 is the easily the best release so far so you may want to amend your statement to "Because it's a mess for me"
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FSD Beta 10.10 Release Notes
- Thread starter jfazio13
- Start date
Rusty1
Member
Or months. In my case, since late November of last year.
Several times I've come close to opting out, just because I can't take it any more. I'm not there yet. It's interesting, from a psychological perspective, to see just how much people are willing to put up with for a "prize" like this.
Always find it interesting how release feedback varies from person to person. For "me" 10.8.1 is the easily the best release so far so you may want to amend your statement to "Because it's a mess for me"
Words taken right out of my mouth
One’s definition of “stable” depends on your expectations and comparisons to other builds. Seeing how 10.9 reboots randomly, 10.10 also has that reboot bug and also crashes into pylons and very dangerously exposes itself to oncoming traffic on unprotected lefts, I think 10.8.1 is a superior build, if not more stable. To each his own though. Cleveland is very different from CA, too.
I didn't say that 10.8.1 wasn't the most stable release so far. In fact that seems very likely to me. Based on what I've read of the newer builds, it does sound like they are regressing. But that doesn't change the fact that none of them are very stable.
And, yes, it is quite possible that it is worse in my environment than yours because it does seem to respond very badly to having a foot of snow on each side of the road covering the curbs and edge lines. But this is a very common situation in a huge portion of the country (let alone the world), so it's not exactly an edge case.
Saying that something is "best" does not necessarily imply that it is excellent, or even "good". Saying that something is "most stable" does not imply that it is stable in any absolute sense. So I stand by my assessment, and yet I don't disagree with either of you.
Yes, exactly. We are rightfully very impressed with all that it can do. It's also easy to see its failings, some of which are egregious. And it's easy to see all of its missing features (school zones, most road signs, railroad crossings, etc.). But I think we fail to see the huge range of subtle common sense things that humans evaluate while driving.
Things like knowing exactly when to enter a left turn lane that is shared with traffic going in the other direction. Knowing exactly how far left to be in my own lane when the lane to my left is empty and I am passing a semi on my right. Knowing that it is inherently unsafe to remain adjacent to other cars and speeding up or slowing down slightly to create a safer driving situation. Knowing how to look ahead or behind in the lane beside me so I can speed up or slow down to find the best place to change lanes. Knowing how to make a smooth turn into a lane that I can't see clearly as I enter it. Learning from that turn how to do it better next time. Knowing not to accelerate or decelerate on a wet bridge when the temperature is near freezing. Knowing how to "feel" the road conditions under my wheels from moment to moment. Knowing to keep away from a driver who appears to be driving unsafely. Knowing that I need to leave more room in front of me if the driver in front of me is tailgating the car in front of him. Knowing how humans negotiate at a 4-way stop sign. Deciding when to trust or not trust a turn signal from another driver. I'm barely scratching the surface here. This list could go on and on and on.
And those are just the few that I can think of. There are likely many more that don't even occur to me until I find myself in a given situation. And there are probably even more that I do without even being aware of them.
So even if 10.8.1 is the best and most stable version so far, I still think it is doing no more than about 5% of what is necessary to be a skilled driver. It has a very long way to go. And the car doesn't appear to have enough computing capacity to do all that it needs to do in real time.
I don't claim to be an expert. I could be wrong about some of these things. I spent most of my career developing software, so I probably know a little more than others, but not a lot more. Still, I think a lot of my observations should be obvious to anyone who takes a good look at it.
I didn't realize how useful plain old Autopilot was until I got FSD Beta (Autosteer on City Streets). No matter how I leave my kids school every morning, there is at least one light where I line up with 50 or more cars taking several light cycles to get through the intersection. I used to just pop on Autopilot and relax as the car crept along in line and approached the light. However, now, if I engage FSD Beta, it is very jerky with acceleration and braking and consistently tries to pop out over the double-yellow line into oncoming traffic to go around the "parked" car in front of me in line! It is not relaxing at all, and I find most mornings - especially when newer versions of FSD Beta are available so I feel no onus to test - I just drive myself, which is not as relaxing as Autopilot but is FAR more relaxing than FSD Beta.
EVJAutoJunkie
EV Junkie
I have given up in making apply any pragmatic predictions of what Tesla engineers are likely to do with these software updates.
All that said, I am no longer worried about not getting these incremental updates. What I am concerned about is whether there will be a sensible full stop rollout if/when a single track software is released to allow me to run FSD Beta from the city streets and onto and off the highway. My guess is it will likely be a dribble as well, but I am sure Tesla's twitter feed with be flooded by angry emojis if the majority of current beta testers are left behind for for several weeks.
All that said, I am no longer worried about not getting these incremental updates. What I am concerned about is whether there will be a sensible full stop rollout if/when a single track software is released to allow me to run FSD Beta from the city streets and onto and off the highway. My guess is it will likely be a dribble as well, but I am sure Tesla's twitter feed with be flooded by angry emojis if the majority of current beta testers are left behind for for several weeks.
I think this is another "lie" being told by Elon that the media (and most forum posters) repeat constantly - this idea that, as far as approaching "fully autonomous," FSD is working in "the long tail of 9's," i.e. currently capable of 99.99...% of the driving task. You may say they are referring to percentage of miles driven, perhaps (and I don't know if I even believe that), but as far as counting by situational transitions faced while driving, they are nowhere near 99%, or 90%, or 80% for that matter. As @Gilliland said above, it still can't handle school zones, school busses, railroad crossings, "do-not-block-the-box" intersections, multiple-lane left turns, and at least up to 10.8.1, left turns on flashing yellow arrows, just to name a few - things I encounter on my commute every day. And that's not even broaching the subject of phantom braking or staying in its own lane on a windy two-lane road.
I don't mind testing the FSD software and I hope my contribution is moving the feature(s) forward for me and other Tesla owners, but I just can't see how Elon's take on where it is and where it will wind up can be considered rational or honest.
I'm waiting on 2-3 incremental releases after the single stack build is installed on my car before making any educated guesses of where FSD will be by the end of 2022.
Why not just setup an additional driver profile that has FSD toggled off? My 42 mile one-way commute includes 5 turns and is about 98% state highway and interstate. for my commutes, I just use my Enhanced Autopilot driver profile. When I want to test FSD, I just select my FSD driver profile. I hate that they buried the driver profile into a menu though, instead of it just being on the main screen like it used to be. Seems like having a cleaner navigation screen puts safety more at risk.
But it is.........99.99% to driving as well as an intoxicated 13 year old.
If you're already on your driver profile when you create the new one, the new one will be created with all of your existing settings, so all you have to do is just toggle the FSD option and save the new profile with a different name.
If at any point you end up changing several settings in one of your profiles to the point the driving profiles become too different from each other, just delete the profile that doesn't have your new settings, and create a new one again based off of the profile with the settings that you like.
For instance, my normal profile has FSD disabled. The other day, I disabled the side mirror folding (so they won't freeze folded) and made a couple other adjustments. At that point, it's probably just easier to delete my FSD profile, select my profile with my new customizations all set, and then toggle on FSD and save that as my new FSD driver profile.
Reddy Kilowatt
Active Member
I would have to agree with this statement.
I FINALY got my car fixed Thursday. Tesla replaced my steering wheel switches after a failed attempt the week before. They have powered down my car multiple times. Both HV battery and 12V battery were physically disconnected for them to work around the air bag. With those reboots and the repair I think my car is running A LOT BETTER with 10.8.1 than at any point since I got beta. I do not know if they reloaded the cars software via hard line or if its the same but it is working great.
I drove several hundred miles this weekend and ran it almost exclusively in FSD. I was running mostly with out interventions and following Ramphex statement. I've been using it so much I know when and where I have to tap the gas or hit the turn signal. So I might be a little aggressive on controlling the FSD. I feel like I know when it is going to screw up or hesitate it has become a routine. Same as when we always had to tap the gas to go through the light.
When I do have to intervene it has been a result of the new Nav not following the real road. I will say Interstate 66 has greatly improved but still keeps knocking the speed limit down to 30-45 ranges, when it still thinks its on a service road or exit ramp. But I can make it past Vienna now.
Saturday night I though I had a phantom brake start on a road I travel all the time. It was pitch black and no one was around on this two lane road. Before I hit the gas to get out of it, a cat popped into my head lights, so I stopped. Save that cat a life.
Anyone else love how they specifically called out all the safety limitations in the rolling stop feature that was removed with this release? They're clearly making the point "this wasn't actually a safety risk, and was working fine, but we're removing it to comply with the NHTSA's complaint."
But goldfish can drive fine! -- so long as you don't mind a little curb rash.
Israeli scientists have trained goldfish to drive, in a scene out of a Dr. Seuss book
An experiment involving a robotic tank on wheels and six trained goldfish may offer insights into animals' ability to navigate unfamiliar environments.
www.npr.org
But goldfish can drive fine! -- so long as you don't mind a little curb rash.
Israeli scientists have trained goldfish to drive, in a scene out of a Dr. Seuss book
An experiment involving a robotic tank on wheels and six trained goldfish may offer insights into animals' ability to navigate unfamiliar environments.
Tesla and PetSmart proudly bring you FSD v12! With bio-neural Carassius auratus technology!
Note: these fish do not make the vehicle autonomous.
Yeah but dont over-feed themBut goldfish can drive fine! -- so long as you don't mind a little curb rash.
Israeli scientists have trained goldfish to drive, in a scene out of a Dr. Seuss book
An experiment involving a robotic tank on wheels and six trained goldfish may offer insights into animals' ability to navigate unfamiliar environments.
I very much doubt the entire 60K testers are all active. I wouldn't be surprised if only 25% or so actively test and/or report anything at all. Guessing that most testers only manage one drive with FSD every couple of days, with one report each, that's a few thousand a day at most. And they will go through some form of triage based on telemetry data uploaded as part of the report.
I’ve only driven 5K in the last two years. That said I use FSD everyday. I’d use it for every drive but sometime I just don’t have the patience for it’s way too laid back driving style. I just don’t always want to sit there for 30-45 secs while it try’s to figure out if it can go or not. The novelty hasn’t worn off; esp with regular updates.
Keep in mind that the NHTSA recall is for 53,822. This is a legal and exact number. It may (or may not) exclude some or all Tesla employees. This is also likely the reason no one has been added to the Beta program since the number can't increase.
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