FSD Beta Videos (and questions for FSD Beta drivers)

[powertoold]

To be honest, so far, it seems Tesla just turned up the confidence factor on 10.2. No obvious improvement on the visualizations. Even the crosswalk lines are back to being zigzaggy.

I think the main strategy for beta is to manually adjust the speed a lot. 10.2 seems to go too fast.

 

[Knightshade]

So I get why it freaked out and said take over immediately after Rob manually moved over-- far as the car could tell it was driving on the wrong side of double yellow lines there- so freaking out makes sense (obviously long term it'll need to understand sometimes construction causes that to happen, but it's a pretty edge case and GENERALLY you don't wanna ever be on the other side of double yellows).

Why it was gonna plough through the lane closed sign before that is a whole other story though.

 

[AndreP]

So I get why it freaked out and said take over immediately after Rob manually moved over-- far as the car could tell it was driving on the wrong side of double yellow lines there- so freaking out makes sense (obviously long term it'll need to understand sometimes construction causes that to happen, but it's a pretty edge case and GENERALLY you don't wanna ever be on the other side of double yellows).

Why it was gonna plough through the lane closed sign before that is a whole other story though.

It was gonna plough through the sign because the OEDR can't detect static objects like those and there is no expectation of significant enhancements to the OEDR that would resolve the issue, as Tesla told the California DMV back in 2019

 

[Knightshade]

It was gonna plough through the sign because the OEDR can't detect static objects like those and there is no expectation of significant enhancements to the OEDR that would resolve the issue, as Tesla told the California DMV back in 2019

Well, it CAN detect static objects- it does so constantly in tons of videos. Stop signs are static objects. Recycling bins and traffic cones and parked cars are static objects- all of which appear frequently in car visualizations.

It just can't do so reliably enough to move beyond L2.

 

[powertoold]

Well, it CAN detect static objects- it does so constantly in tons of videos. Stop signs are static objects. Recycling bins and traffic cones and parked cars are static objects- all of which appear frequently in car visualizations.

It just can't do so reliably enough to move beyond L2.

‘people harping on that dmv exchange have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s just fud they’re repeating.

 

[gearchruncher]

Well, that was just a ridiculous place to attempt it. Hopefully no new beta testers attempt anything like that. I don’t want to be the idiot that gets in the first beta crash.

Why was that a ridiculous place to use FSD? It's just a normal road with some obstacles in the lane.

 

[AndreP]

‘people harping on that dmv exchange have no idea what they’re talking about. It’s just fud they’re repeating.

I’m not quite sure how repeating the written statements is “fud”, but the proof is in the fudding. If there was something that could fix this shortcoming they were clearly aware of at that time and surely much earlier, you’d think it would have been rolled out in the years since. But nothing has changed, just as was stated would be the case.

As far as I’m aware, all autonomous driving systems share this problem

 

[KArnold]

Let's see - hypothetically, I just get the FSD beta. It's nighttime and raining. Let's take my maiden trip now and put it on social media!

Sure, I'd try it too but I'm not sure I'd put my lunacy on the Internet, especially if I'm in a near-accident. If I were the social media monitor @ Tesla, these kinds of things would get my attention as a candidate to be pulled.

Maybe not.

 

[Iain]

Why was that a ridiculous place to use FSD? It's just a normal road with some obstacles in the lane.

I won't debate the issue, but lets just say we have a very different opinion on normal. ( like driving on the wrong side of marked roads with cones and signs showing the direction)

 

[MP3Mike]

But nothing has changed, just as was stated would be the case.

Yeah, not like Tesla has started rolling out new NNs that detect static obstacles or anything:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447384328304922631

And showing the sign sticking up in the middle of the road:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1447384349385445376

 

[EVNow]

Why was that a ridiculous place to use FSD? It's just a normal road with some obstacles in the lane.

Construction zones are "normal" but also difficult because lot of normal rules don't apply. One of the difficult "edge" cases.

 

[Knightshade]

I’m not quite sure how repeating the written statements is “fud”, but the proof is in the fudding. If there was something that could fix this shortcoming they were clearly aware of at that time and surely much earlier, you’d think it would have been rolled out in the years since.

Uh, what "years since"?

The CA DMV emails were not "years" ago- they were from about 6 months ago.

(and things have absolutely changed on the development side even in that short time- see MP3Mikes post above this one- though they're only slowly getting into production content)

 

[AndreP]

Uh, what "years since"?

The CA DMV emails were not "years" ago- they were from about 6 months ago.

(and things have absolutely changed on the development side even in that short time- see MP3Mikes post above this one- though they're only slowly getting into production content)

Good call, the correspondence in the document started in late 2019 but the letter I'm referencing was dated November 2020.

I'm not saying nothing has changed, but we can all see the system will still happily plough towards the objects mentioned in Tesla's letter as we approach 2022. This is obviously not an easy problem to fix, and I imagine it needs to be balanced with generating false positives that would lead to more phantom braking. People expecting reality to deviate from what Tesla stated very clearly in writing, well I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment but we'll see how it unfolds.

 

[EVNow]

I imagine it needs to be balanced with generating false positives that would lead to more phantom braking.

Yes - question is how well will the Vision only work. Radar doesn't recognize stationary objects and the fusion was ignoring vision & using radar.

 

[gearchruncher]

Construction zones are "normal" but also difficult because lot of normal rules don't apply. One of the difficult "edge" cases.

Yes, but the claim by @Iain was it was "ridiculous" to even try it here and the tester was an idiot for doing it, and could have caused a crash.
I thought the point of rolling it out wider was to get more data on edge cases, not call everyone that attempts to use it during an edge case an idiot.
Does the manual tell you to turn FSD beta off the instant you see a construction sign?

 

[EVNow]

Yes, but the claim by @Iain was it was "ridiculous" to even try it here and the tester was an idiot for doing it, and could have caused a crash.
I thought the point of rolling it out wider was to get more data on edge cases, not call everyone that attempts to use it during an edge case an idiot.

TeslDaily / Rob does seem to drive a bit dangerously (i.e. intervenes rather late).

Does the manual tell you to turn FSD beta off the instant you see a construction sign?

As they say, if you need a manual - you can't be a tester

The correct way to handle this would be to figure out what use cases are clearly not yet designed to be handled (apparently things like parking lots, closed roads) and not try them. Edge cases they are looking for come from other normal driving the CNN & the planner are currently designed for.

Ofcourse, since they don't actually list cases not yet designed to be handled - we have to just figure these out ourselfs.

 

[gearchruncher]

Ofcourse, since they don't actually list cases not yet designed to be handled - we have to just figure these out ourselfs.

Yea, since Tesla refuses to tell you how to use the beta, maybe we shouldn't call people idiots for trying things, and each person needs to no it individually given there is no master list to follow.

 

[Iain]

Yes, but the claim by @Iain was it was "ridiculous" to even try it here and the tester was an idiot for doing it, and could have caused a crash.
I thought the point of rolling it out wider was to get more data on edge cases, not call everyone that attempts to use it during an edge case an idiot.
Does the manual tell you to turn FSD beta off the instant you see a construction sign?

Ok, i agree maybe i was a bit harsh, but my point that was poorly written, and i had referred to in previous posts was that i would leave those edge cases to the early beta drivers because all of us newbies didn't have enough experience. Rob was way late on his decision, and if you have seen his other videos it's not the first time.

 

[gearchruncher]

i had referred to in previous posts was that i would leave those edge cases to the early beta drivers because all of us newbies didn't have enough experience. Rob was way late on his decision, and if you have seen his other videos it's not the first time.

So leave it to the experienced users not "newbies", Rob is an experienced user, see his previous videos, Rob was way late in his decision?

You appear to be a pilot. Can you imagine the FAA releasing an autopilot with no user manual or training, and just telling pilots to figure it out by testing the envelope slowly until they aren't "newbies?"

 

[Iain]

So leave it to the experienced users not "newbies", Rob is an experienced user, see his previous videos, Rob was way late in his decision?

You appear to be a pilot. Can you imagine the FAA releasing an autopilot with no user manual or training, and just telling pilots to figure it out by testing the envelope slowly until they aren't "newbies?"

It's a different discussion regarding training. Yes, I'm a professional pilot but trust me there are a lot of private pilots with AP that receive zero training on the system. I like Rob on Tesla Daily but he only received the beta within the last couple of months and i've seen a couple of videos where he's behind the 8-ball. Since we are on planes the autopilot is a system that needs to be watched constantly and you want to be ahead of it at all times. Kinda like this Beta.

If you have it are you putting it into situations like Rob did today?