FSD + GPS (in)accuracy = fail

[Skotty]

I can't help but wonder if maybe this is a weakness in Tesla GPS systems. I have a Model 3 and the nav/GPS system occasionally shows the car way the hell far away from where it actually is, usually pointing in a different direction than the car. This has been speculated to be a Model 3 specific issue possibly caused by interference from the cabin camera, but I don't think that has been confirmed. It looks like you have a Model S, so maybe it's something different, but sure sounds similar. Maybe Tesla has a specific weakness or vulnerability to interference with their current system and software that makes it easy for it to become inaccurate.

 

[Dewg]

Stupid question: Do those with GPS issues have aftermarket tint on their windows?

 

[Skotty]

Stupid question: Do those with GPS issues have aftermarket tint on their windows?

Not in my case. I don't tint windows.

 

[Mark II]

Not in my case. I don't tint windows.

Me neither.

 

[nvx1977]

Ha ha, maybe that is my problem! The cell coverage in my garage is dismal. I barely get 1 bar.

Here's some more info from Tesla hacker greentheonly on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569068951891574789

Yeah I think you're right. If you live somewhere with no cell reception, the initial time to fix is going to take a while. Not sure if you can get around that for now while FSD is dependent on GPS. Encouraging that Tesla is prioritizing GNSS accuracy though. I didn't realize it was using several satellite networks. But seems like Tesla should disable AP/FSD while GPS fix is partial/inaccurate.

 

[Mark II]

Yeah I think you're right. If you live somewhere with no cell reception, the initial time to fix is going to take a while. Not sure if you can get around that for now while FSD is dependent on GPS. Encouraging that Tesla is prioritizing GNSS accuracy though. I didn't realize it was using several satellite networks. But seems like Tesla should disable AP/FSD while GPS fix is partial/inaccurate.

Or rely more on the map data. When it knows GPS is not accurate it should bias towards assuming the car is on the route it has been driving on for the last few hundred yards, versus somewhere in the middle of a bunch of houses.

If I, as a human, can see where I am and know the GPS is not correct, the Tesla Vision should be able to do the same. It's supposed to be better than humans right

 

[boonedocks]

I emailed FSDbeta support on Monday about GPS issues. I am not sure if something was done on the backside (no firmware update on my part) but GPS seemed to correct itself for the most part which in return made FSD Beta 99% better. Like a crazy amount better.

Today though it was back to its old antics and I sent pics as well as the same email. The problem is FSD goes completely crazy changing the speed limit to 25mph on a 45mph road TOTAL brake check to those behind me as sell as blinkers and brakes happening like crazy. The red line was the road I was actually on:

 

[Dewg]

I emailed FSDbeta support on Monday about GPS issues. I am not sure if something was done on the backside (no firmware update on my part) but GPS seemed to correct itself for the most part which in return made FSD Beta 99% better. Like a crazy amount better.

Today though it was back to its old antics and I sent pics as well as the same email. The problem is FSD goes completely crazy changing the speed limit to 25mph on a 45mph road TOTAL brake check to those behind me as sell as blinkers and brakes happening like crazy. The red line was the road I was actually on:
View attachment 863361

I hope you GPS issues are fixed! I'm really wondering if many people's FSD issues are in part because of minor or major GPS issues.

 

[Mark II]

I emailed FSDbeta support on Monday about GPS issues. I am not sure if something was done on the backside (no firmware update on my part) but GPS seemed to correct itself for the most part which in return made FSD Beta 99% better. Like a crazy amount better.

Today though it was back to its old antics and I sent pics as well as the same email. The problem is FSD goes completely crazy changing the speed limit to 25mph on a 45mph road TOTAL brake check to those behind me as sell as blinkers and brakes happening like crazy. The red line was the road I was actually on:

What I find interesting about your image is that your car is to the right of the red line. When my GPS has not locked it is always to the right, no matter what direction I am driving. That does not make a lot of sense, unless Tesla software intentionally biases to the right when the GPS is not accurate. Wonder why they would do that?

 

[boonedocks]

What I find interesting about your image is that your car is to the right of the red line. When my GPS has not locked it is always to the right, no matter what direction I am driving. That does not make a lot of sense, unless Tesla software intentionally biases to the right when the GPS is not accurate. Wonder why they would do that?

It is just a general mess and is all over the place no matter which direction or NSEW placental of my car

From Saturday 10/15/22

 

[boonedocks]

So after continually sending pictures (barraging) and examples of my GPS errors I just received a phone call from my service center and they have diagnosed that it is the selfie camera inside the car not being shielded properly and interfering with the GPS reception. New shielded selfie camera on order and I'll report back once it has been swapped out.

 

[Mark II]

I think the CEO of Tesla needs to convince the CEO of SpaceX to add (hmm enable?) GPS capabilities in Starlink. Way more satellites and far better accuracy!

 

[Mark II]

Today was the first time I drove FSDb drove with poor GPS accuracy since upgrading to 11.3.3, and it actually worked!

There was a new message I have not seen before. Despite the message, it drove normally without doing all the weird random stuff it did in the past.

 

[pan]

I just picked my car up from the Tesla repair shop. Three times in the Tesla shop, the techs could not replicate the GPS problem found in this thread “Full Self-Driving may be degraded.” I drove out of the shop, and within 100 yards, the problem showed back up. I went back to the shop. The adviser got the tech. I showed him what I saw that he couldn't duplicate. The tech and supervisor went for a test drive. They did some research to come and tell me to expect a firmware fix in two months, on June 13.

In this newer 2021 model SLR, the sad aspect of this problem is the operating software causes features dependent on GPS to fail, such as the automatic garage door opener.

 

[Mark II]

I just picked my car up from the Tesla repair shop. Three times in the Tesla shop, the techs could not replicate the GPS problem found in this thread “Full Self-Driving may be degraded.” I drove out of the shop, and within 100 yards, the problem showed back up. I went back to the shop. The adviser got the tech. I showed him what I saw that he couldn't duplicate. The tech and supervisor went for a test drive. They did some research to come and tell me to expect a firmware fix in two months, on June 13.

In this newer 2021 model SLR, the sad aspect of this problem is the operating software causes features dependent on GPS to fail, such as the automatic garage door opener.

I found with FSDb V11 my GPS is much worse, as in sometimes it does not even work at all. My car is stuck on the map in some random place. Really weird thing is sometimes it would be in a different places on my large screen and the small screen. When this happens I can't even engage FSDb. I forget the error is displays, but different from the one I posted before.

 

[dafish]

Accuracy of different GNSS's varies. Does anybody know what GNSS chipset Tesla is using? What constellations are polled and tracked, etc?

 

[Mike1080i]

Accuracy of different GNSS's varies. Does anybody know what GNSS chipset Tesla is using? What constellations are polled and tracked, etc?

u-blox mentioned that Tesla was using their NEO-M8L here on twitter back in 2019.

 

[dafish]

I've looked around enough to accept HW3 uses the NEO-M8L (I must have missed the hard data in the twitter link). While not multi-frequency, which would have been nice, it's multi-constellation. Pretty solid GNSS chipset!

 

[pcopeland]

I am using FSD 11.4.3 in a 2022 Model S with Gen 3 hardware. I live in Colorado and see GPS accuracy issues frequently when I drive here in Boulder. For some reason it seems worse when I head either East or West - and typically my car is shown to the south of the road I am driving on. I'll post some pictures. I've seen this now in all FSD Beta releases over the last 18 months. I am wondering if this is a Gen3 hardware problem - and if it still occurs on Gen4 cars? Anyone with a Gen4 car seeing similiar problems?

 

[JB47394]

I am wondering if this is a Gen3 hardware problem

Have you compared this GPS location to one on your phone or a dedicated GPS device? I'm just curious to know if environment has any role in the inaccuracy. I saw this sort of thing intermittently on my old Garmin GPS unit, but I don't recall the circumstances. That is, I don't recall whether it was a hot day or a humid day, or whatever.

I don't mean to excuse Tesla if environment is messing up the GPS unit. They should be making allowances for such things - where practical.