FSD price reduced, Musk says it is too cheap now.

[timk225]

LOL that's funny, FSD, a system which isn't even operational yet, after many years, is "too cheap"?

Sorry, I will refuse the honor of paying $12 grand for an experimental FSD that's not ready. If Tesla were being smart about it, they'd give it away for free for a while, to gather more data and research.

I really resent Tesla's strategy of "Buy it now before it gets more expensive later" in regards to FSD.

If it worked and was reliable, that's one thing. But it is not and does not. And even if it did, I wouldn't trust it for a while, my area of Pittsburgh has many unique roads and driving situations that I don't think FSD can handle.

 

[kabin]

Yep. He's played that hand. Now it's time for the market to say what FSD is worth.

 

[glide]

Remember when the price was only ever going to go up and FSD was only ever going to increase in value?

Yeah…add it to the stack.

 

[RTPEV]

I really resent Tesla's strategy of "Buy it now before it gets more expensive later" in regards to FSD.

I do too, although I could accept it as a reasonable marketing strategy if there was measurable progress in its capabilities commensurate with the price increases, but honestly, there hasn't been. It's really been quite incremental. Based on the amount of progress I've seen (and the diminishing returns nature of those improvements (chasing the 9's), I just don't see how we can be close enough to the point where we will be able to release cars into the wild to go earn money for us as robotaxis by the time the car already loses most of its value because it's 15-20 years old.

 

[DblOSmith]

Everything must go-go-go! We've slashed prices to ridiculous rates, but we'll go out of business for youuuuu the customer. Our prices are STUPID!!! Bad credit, no credit, no money down.... come on down for FSD Labor Day bananza!

...anyway, I don't like this strategy either. Thank you for the early adopters for basically financing FSD creation, but I'm not paying $10,000+ for a system that can't take the first left turn out of my neighborhood. I agree with Tom Moloughney, as it is right now, FSD is a $3,500 novelty. On my route to work, I pass alternate flow construction zones, lane closures, unprotected left turns... When I get video of it handling things like that... or at least not slamming on the brakes when a car takes a left turn in front of me 100 yards up (and it's already out of the road), I'll consider it. I think Tesla will be the first to crack it. Get back at me when it does.

Don't get me started on robotaxi ridiculousness.

 

[johnnycnote]

For me, FSDb works flawlessly 95% of the time in almost any environment. Is it worth an upfront $15k or even $12k. Not in my book. However, after almost 20k miles of use, I find it an indispensable driving tool for $199/mo. I think the issue is that people don't spend enough time adapting and getting comfortable not being in control, and after the first couple of takeovers (and most takeovers during the early learning curve are prob unnecessary), they give up

 

[johnny_cakes]

For me, FSDb works flawlessly 95% of the time in almost any environment.

For me, the best technology is one that always works. The second best is one that never works. The worst and most frustrating technology for me is one that sometimes works, and that's been my experience with FSD.

 

[RTPEV]

For me, FSDb works flawlessly 95% of the time in almost any environment. Is it worth an upfront $15k or even $12k. Not in my book. However, after almost 20k miles of use, I find it an indispensable driving tool for $199/mo. I think the issue is that people don't spend enough time adapting and getting comfortable not being in control, and after the first couple of takeovers (and most takeovers during the early learning curve are prob unnecessary), they give up

I get what you are saying. It's a driver assistance tool at best, and I've spent a considerable amount of time (although certainly not as much as others) getting to know its strong and weak points and can anticipate problem areas.

But indispensable? No way! And most certainly not worth $15K, $12K, and probably not even the $7K total ($5K EAP + $2K FSD add-on) that I paid for it. I've driven a U-haul truck without cruise control to my son's apartment 300 miles away...that borders on being indispensable, but I think the most I would have paid to have it for that trip is maybe $30. Having autosteer & automatic lane changes, maybe another $30. No way I would pay more than that though. Certainly not $199/month. The additional oversight and monitoring required when actually using FSD (especially on surface streets) would not even put it close to $199/month territory for me. I don't even consider it driver assistance at that point. And especially not compared to what the competition is offering (albeit at a slightly lower quality level on highways) for much less money.

 

[johnnycnote]

For me, the best technology is one that always works. The second best is one that never works. The worst and most frustrating technology for me is one that sometimes works, and that's been my experience with FSD.

Like I said, it's just another tool that makes many of my drives very comfortable. But you make an excellent point

 

[johnnycnote]

I get what you are saying. It's a driver assistance tool at best, and I've spent a considerable amount of time (although certainly not as much as others) getting to know its strong and weak points and can anticipate problem areas.

But indispensable? No way! And most certainly not worth $15K, $12K, and probably not even the $7K total ($5K EAP + $2K FSD add-on) that I paid for it. I've driven a U-haul truck without cruise control to my son's apartment 300 miles away...that borders on being indispensable, but I think the most I would have paid to have it for that trip is maybe $30. Having autosteer & automatic lane changes, maybe another $30. No way I would pay more than that though. Certainly not $199/month. The additional oversight and monitoring required when actually using FSD (especially on surface streets) would not even put it close to $199/month territory for me. I don't even consider it driver assistance at that point. And especially not compared to what the competition is offering (albeit at a slightly lower quality level on highways) for much less money.

Agree. IMO, no one should but FSDb. They should subscribe and see if it's a good fit for them. Plus subscribing gives the consumer control by allowing them to dictate when a product is good enough for continued use, while forcing the manufacturer to improve the product. Ponying up $15k up front provides no leverage

 

[kabin]

For me, the best technology is one that always works. The second best is one that never works. The worst and most frustrating technology for me is one that sometimes works, and that's been my experience with FSD.

Yes, if only FSD was a driver assistance aid. I can understand FSD having issues when another driver does something out of the norm. But it's FSD that's the roadway menace and there's been no sign of relief.

 

[asterothe]

For me, FSDb works flawlessly 95% of the time in almost any environment. Is it worth an upfront $15k or even $12k. Not in my book. However, after almost 20k miles of use, I find it an indispensable driving tool for $199/mo. I think the issue is that people don't spend enough time adapting and getting comfortable not being in control, and after the first couple of takeovers (and most takeovers during the early learning curve are prob unnecessary), they give up

Similar experience. I use it all the time and it's definitely a good tool. It won't realize its promise in short term, so all the cars out now will be obsolete without it reaching full self driving but never the less it's assisting me ton or I am assisting it to achieve a lot of things. I bought when it was cheap and transferring to a new car. I will keep using and hoping to help them improve it with the data produced.

 

[OxBrew]

AP/FSD should be called Co-Pilot across the board, and include modes.

Basic free: hands on/eyes on mode, freeway only.

Mid Range: hands on/eyes on, freeway only with navigation (current EAP)

Advanced: hands on/eyes on everywhere, stops at lights and signs(current "FSD-ish").

If you think about it like that, the pricing seems crazy. The only reason to pay the crazy prices was the hype around it all.

I'd still only pay maybe $1000 for EAP, and for FSD, Tesla would have to pay me IDK, $1000 a month and $150 each time I use it for 10 minutes or more. FSD is totally insane, if you step back and think about it rationally.

 

[Dewg]

FSD is totally insane, if you step back and think about it rationally.

And what if I don't accept your premise? I always love when people use these types of statements. How about this one: FSD Beta works great, and anyone that disagrees is an idiot. You're trapped if it doesn't work well for you, because the only other option is that you're an idiot.

 

[OxBrew]

And what if I don't accept your premise? I always love when people use these types of statements. How about this one: FSD Beta works great, and anyone that disagrees is an idiot. You're trapped if it doesn't work well for you, because the only other option is that you're an idiot.

Sorry, I meant paying $10k or more for it is insane, from some perspectives. If money is no object, then I can see how it would be entertaining for a while, just to watch the development in real time.

But as a proposition for the average person, in some future state where Teslas are as cheap as Corollas, no way is it going to be worth more than $5k to anyone. More like 2, maybe.

But it will never actually ever be solved the way Elon is approaching it, for certain values of solved.

 

[flyhighboi20]

A company or person can say something is worth whatever they want but at the end of the day anything is only worth what people will pay for it. I would be curious to know what the take rates were at different prices. Once you already have the early adopters who love tech and are willing to pay a premium to have it now and play with it the market dries up and you need a good product that's worth the price that the average person is willing to pay for what it does at the time. The pay now for a chance at some point in the future it will probably work the way we predict really only works on very tech forward people I think. Then it seems they tried to bridge the gap with the pressure of it's going to keep getting more expensive and play on the FOMO strategy. That probably would have worked longer if they would have been able to actually deliver in a timeframe that somewhat resembled the timeframe given. Now so many people have had to buy new cars or have their old car which will never really have FSD, or will have a lower level of FSD (not saying they shouldn't keep advancing) but at some point people are getting frustrated. The thing that kinda rubbed me the wrong way was his one time "amnesty" comment, maybe it was just a poor wording choice but it made me think that he feels like it's our fault for buying early and believing him and that we did something wrong.

 

[cdub]

For me, FSDb works flawlessly 95% of the time in almost any environment. Is it worth an upfront $15k or even $12k. Not in my book. However, after almost 20k miles of use, I find it an indispensable driving tool for $199/mo. I think the issue is that people don't spend enough time adapting and getting comfortable not being in control, and after the first couple of takeovers (and most takeovers during the early learning curve are prob unnecessary), they give up

I'm glad I didn't buy it. Tried it for the free trial with my new Y and already turned it off. Completely stressful. Does crazy weird things. Accelerates and brakes way to quick for comfort. Found myself worrying what weird dangerous thing it was going to do. Not relaxing at all. Like letting a 15 year old drive for the first time.

Maybe I'll try it again later but no thanks. Regular autopilot actually is relaxing. I'll stick to that.

 

[johnnycnote]

I'm glad I didn't buy it. Tried it for the free trial with my new Y and already turned it off. Completely stressful. Does crazy weird things. Accelerates and brakes way to quick for comfort. Found myself worrying what weird dangerous thing it was going to do. Not relaxing at all. Like letting a 15 year old drive for the first time.

Maybe I'll try it again later but no thanks. Regular autopilot actually is relaxing. I'll stick to that.

Interesting. How long was the trial?

 

[cdub]

Interesting. How long was the trial?

All new cars get a 3 month trial if you use a referral. It'll expire end of December so I'll have time to try it again.

 

[cdub]

All new cars get a 3 month trial if you use a referral. It'll expire end of December so I'll have time to try it again.

I also hated autopilot when I first tried it as it instantly accelerated to the speed limit upon activating much quicker than I'd like it to when not in control. This was years ago though.