FSD price to go up $1k and Enhanced Summon release date, both ~August 16.

[Big-T]

Elon keeps raising the price and he makes it sound like it's only going to go up from here. I mean how many people are going to buy this at 10k? 15k? etc....He's going to have a hard time showing people a car is really an "appreciating asset" like he says....

For now, more and more of my local roads have been limited to only 5mph over the speed limit - don't know why they're getting re-categorized like this but it makes AP all but useless on those areas.

 

[acarney]

I think Tesla has established a pattern that if small improvements can be made for the sake of safety, they will be made. Take for example the red-light warning. It's presumably being developed as part of City NOA, I don't think it works very well, but Tesla went to the effort of pushing the code publicly on the off chance it could stop a car from running a red light.

So I imagine that they'll improve AP safety to whatever point possible hardware wise. It's just not clear how much more performance they can squeeze out of HW2.5. Evidently it's already at something like 80% utilization.

I thought all SR+ cars shipped with the same hardware as FSD cars.... isn't that HW3? (The in house developed tesla self drive computer...)

 

[willow_hiller]

I thought all SR+ cars shipped with the same hardware as FSD cars.... isn't that HW3? (The in house developed tesla self drive computer...)

I bought my SR+ in March. No HW3. Tesla's also been using spare HW2.5 computers in SR+ since mid-May. See HW2.5 even after April 12th build date

 

[acarney]

I bought my SR+ in March. No HW3. Tesla's also been using spare HW2.5 computers in SR+ since mid-May. See HW2.5 even after April 12th build date

Wow, so if I upgrade to FSD after delivery and only have HW2.5 then that would require a service visit and hardware retro fit?

 

[DJVoorhees]

Well, pretty much confirms I'll never buy it. However the next time tesla needs to raise cash, they will have another sale. $2k is about my limit for vaporware.

 

[insaneoctane]

I find the argument that $6K (or even $7K) for FSD isn't worth it somewhat of a pointless position. Discussing the value of FSD today isn't very straight forward because there is not a product today! No product. I'm not counting the small things like NoA or lane changes during AP for now. So we have the investment or cost at $6K vs the product that essentially doesn't exist. For people looking to justify that expense- good luck. Buying FSD isn't about the product today, obviously, it's about what you think it will be in the future and when you think that future is. There are people who will say "no product, no buy". Great. That is certainly your opinion and I respect and even understand that choice. Others will be the opposite, they'll say "I'll give Tesla $$ to help them get to that futuristic goal of FSD that I believe in. Whenever.". Now there are also folks somewhere between. But, let's just acknowledge that this isn't about what FSD is today or August really, it's about the vision and the timeline in the future. Elon's known to optimistically predict timelines, so that should be factored in here. I'm just saying if you don't believe, then don't invest and move on- I don't think you need to cr@p on people who have more optimism and patience. For me, I bought FSD during the fire sale and still think that was wise for me. I'm optimistic and am excited to see what the next level is.

I do understand some leasees might have a legitimate beef. But, as FSD evolves, there is NO way it makes sense for Tesla to do anything other than raise the price on it. Once it moves away from future/hope and theory into a real product, it's value becomes tangible and the price will go up. Especially if they are the ONLY game in town with it.

 

[insaneoctane]

Wow, so if I upgrade to FSD after delivery and only have HW2.5 then that would require a service visit and hardware retro fit?

yes

 

[Fernand]

Just waiting for my account to reflect the 3k price for EAP buyers, and I'll bite this go around. Based on tsla performance, I'm calling this "reinvestment".

Yup.

I'm surprised at one particular type of response here. There are fanboys, there are realists, there are some who have legitimate beefs, but then, then, Lights! Sound! Action! ... there's a small contingent that's like rabidly unconsolably pissed off, and they simmer and stew that way. Wow. Kinda Seppuku if you ask me. Life's short. I'm more OK with imaginative and uncontrolled experiments, like Tesla and Space-X, than with ho hum corporate dividend BS, paving over the planet and counting the money. Know what I'm sayin'? Of course you do, in our hearts we all know it.
.

 

[Sutton 3P]

According to Musk, it’ll go up ~$1000.

Maybe it means ~=- and it’ll cost $6000~$1000 = $5000?

LOL, as much as I like my car, that dude simply has no credibility. I’m not sure if he is a net positive to Tesla. What comes out of his mouth is borderline fraudulent and has been proven many times to be utter BS.

Exactly, his credibility level is 'Trump'

 

[run-the-joules]

Yup.

I'm surprised at one particular type of response here. There are fanboys, there are realists, there are some who have legitimate beefs, but then, then, Lights! Sound! Action! ... there's a small contingent that's like rabidly unconsolably pissed off, and they simmer and stew that way. Wow. Kinda Seppuku if you ask me. Life's short. I'm more OK with imaginative and uncontrolled experiments, like Tesla and Space-X, than with ho hum corporate dividend BS, paving over the planet and counting the money. Know what I'm sayin'? Of course you do, in our hearts we all know it.
.

I'm not sure which of those categories I'm supposed to be in.

Here's my totally-spelled-out frustration :

I paid $3k for the originally-defined FSD a year and a half ago when I bought my car. I knew it was a gamble, but I thought about it like this:

1. I did not, at any point, believe that the computer was going to be sufficient for true autonomous operation, and they'd need to upgrade it at some point.
2. I did not think it'd be an "all or nothing" release for FSD, but that they'd start adding features that aren't even Level 3 autonomy, but are only available to users with the FSD license.
3. The pricing was listed as $4k after delivery. I figured it might go up as it transitioned from being total vaporware into actually doing *something*, even if not Level4+ autonomy.
4. I figured, despite no evidence, that people who had purchased FSD earlier would get the hardware upgrades earlier.

So I shrugged and got it, being optimistic that I'd see *something* for my money in the 3-ish years I figured I'd keep the car, but being prepared to see nothing.

What I hadn't planned for was a price *drop* on FSD a little over a year later, but if I was accepting of the idea of a price increase down the road, I had to accept it'd potentially decrease, too. After all, the paperwork didn't say it couldn't. So I shrugged it off.

Then they made the promise that they'd be inviting everyone who'd paid for FSD before the sale to the Early Access Program, and I got legitimately excited that I was finally going to see something interesting come out of my purchase.

Then they redefined FSD to some watered-down rubbish, and moved features from Enhanced Autopilot to "FSD" to look like they were delivering features for the money. Turned out I was right that they'd add things to the FSD-only license, but not in the way that I'd imagined. I've never been impressed by moving the goalposts.

Then they reneged on the Early Access Program promise.

All of those things add up… so yeah, I'm a bit angry at this point. I feel like there's a huge cloud of dishonesty and scumminess around the whole FSD "product", formed from vaporized promises and the mists of optimism never fulfilled.

 

[qdeathstar]

I'm not sure which of those categories I'm supposed to be in.

Here's my totally-spelled-out frustration :

I paid $3k for the originally-defined FSD a year and a half ago when I bought my car.

Was it called FSD when you bought it? Not arguing with you I only recently started following Tesla after buying mine in may...

Then they redefined FSD to some watered-down rubbish, and moved features from Enhanced Autopilot to "FSD" to look like they were delivering features for the money. Turned out I was right that they'd add things to the FSD-only license, but not in the way that I'd imagined. I've never been impressed by moving the goalposts

What do you mean here?

 

[run-the-joules]

Was it called FSD when you bought it? Not arguing with you I only recently started following Tesla after buying mine in may...



What do you mean here?

For people who bought Enhanced Autopilot when that was available, it includes auto lane changes, navigate on autopilot, autopark, and Summon. Those were moved into "FSD" when they moved the goalposts.

This is how FSD was described when I ordered it, on the actual order page:

 

[Xenius]

It was a little bit of a runaround (typical tesla internal comms being, well, terrible) but I got my FSD upgrade from EAP for 3180 out the door. It'll come over the air in a day or two. But I'm not worried about it because it literally doesn't do anything for me yet

 

[Big Dog]

Wow, so if I upgrade to FSD after delivery and only have HW2.5 then that would require a service visit and hardware retro fit?

Elon said that the upgrades can be completely with the remote service team. So yes, a service call, but hopefully competed at your home/office.

 

[Fernand]

Let's see. We have a lot of satisfied Tesla owners. If each of us
chipped in $1, what would that add up to enough to quell the
anger among the most unhappy?

BTW, @run-the-joules, you're not explaining the "goalpost
moving" very well for new arrivals.

There's a package with lane change, NOA, etc called FSD.
That also includes a new 3.X computer, and future features.

Those of us who got EAP in end 2018 got most of what the
current FSD offering adds to the now more complete base AP.
To add just the 3.x hardware we now have to pay another $6k,
which isn't attractive. They briefly offered it for $2k, and I'm very
sorry I missed that. But if I'd paid $3k more at purchase, I wouldn't
be all bent out of shape. Yes, they moved some of the EAP into
the base AP, and that's nice for current buyers, but I can't see
being furious, even if the picture has been shifting. Hopefully
the $3k "agreed" by Musk will filter down to reality for us EAP
owners. Anybody who got the whole enchilada for $5k + $3k
should be pretty satisfied, and while $5k + $6k or $7k is $11k,
too much, I'm perfectly willing to add $3K now, making the
whole $8k. As to current buyers, if they add FSD at purchase,
their total for the full automation would be about the same if it's
$7k above base. If they don't, they have base AP, which is
more than what our base car had, but less than what we got
with EAP for $5k. It's hard to compare exactly.

 

[afadeev]

Elon keeps raising the price and he makes it sound like it's only going to go up from here. I mean how many people are going to buy this at 10k? 15k? etc....

Fewer than at 8K, 7K, 6K, etc....

He's going to have a hard time showing people a car is really an "appreciating asset" like he says....

Yeah, that was a full-on RETARDED claim.

Now followed by price reduction on that "faux appreciating" asset, that only accelerated depreciation for all current Model 3 owners (most of us here).

I find the argument that $6K (or even $7K) for FSD isn't worth it somewhat of a pointless position. [...] But, let's just acknowledge that this isn't about what FSD is today or August really, it's about the vision and the timeline in the future.

Agreed.

Elon's known to optimistically predict timelines, so that should be factored in here. I'm just saying if you don't believe, then don't invest and move on. I don't think you need to cr@p on people who have more optimism and patience.

I think the verb "invest" is rather inappropriate in this context.
There is no indication that buying an FSD "license" will appreciate in value. It may go up and/or down, loosely correlated with Elon's mood swings.

Personally, I am not anti-FSD.
I may very well end up buying it, but only after I can test drive it, and assign "value" to whatever it is that Tesla manages to bundle into that package.

Until then, it's just good old fashioned vaporware.

Once it moves away from future/hope and theory into a real product, it's value becomes tangible and the price will go up.

Or down!

There is no logical reason to expect FSD value to not decrease, if the future demand for it starts stagnating (similar to, evidently, Model 3's, else Tesla would not have lowered its price).


a

 

[qdeathstar]

For people who bought Enhanced Autopilot when that was available, it includes auto lane changes, navigate on autopilot, autopark, and Summon. Those were moved into "FSD" when they moved the goalposts.

This is how FSD was described when I ordered it, on the actual order page:

Ok, and now have they change the definition? Are you saying you feel like enhanced autopilot is the same as FSD?

 

[run-the-joules]

Ok, and now have they change the definition? Are you saying you feel like enhanced autopilot is the same as FSD?

Well, the description on the order page is nowhere near that. I'm not sure if they're still making the same promises elsewhere on the site, but if they aren't, it sounds like they're trying to water it down.

 

[insaneoctane]

There is no logical reason to expect FSD value to not decrease, if the future demand for it starts stagnating (similar to, evidently, Model 3's, else Tesla would not have lowered its price).

I'd argue that there IS a logical reason to expect FSD value not to decrease. Once the benefits/product actually exists, it will be much clearer what the value proposition is. If the product is everything they claim (and/or more), then it WILL increase. If they fall short vs expectations, only then, IMO, would it decrease.

 

[scubastevo80]

My personal issue isn't with the intent to increase price, it's with all the flip flopping on prices and messaging. Early adopters who bought EAP paid $5k, and are now being asked to pay $6k to upgrade to FSD. New buyers can get it for $8k effectively. Elon tweets yesterday that the upgrade is now $3k for EAP owners, but my account doesn't reflect that price. Does EAP include enhanced summon or was Elon's tweet some time ago not accurate? It's difficult to make decisions when the goal posts constantly move and one has to search everywhere for the current state of software affairs...