FSD v12.x (end to end AI)

[FSDtester#1]

See the difference in the image here, left vs. right side and the lane markings?

Clearly the RIGHT camera is seeing about 50% More car side than the left repeater?

As well, the don’t seem to be seeing the same area, at least not from the bottom or top to the hip line. This shouldn’t happen.

View attachment 1051144

Hard to tell from a Pic, if you could post a few second video, it might be easier to assess if it's the repeaters.

 

[JHCCAZ]

Lane keeping:
A few years ago, probably FSD v9 or so, the camera views were merged into a unified bird's eye view (BEV) 360° image. I'm not sure if that processing step is still being done explicitly in v12, or is left to NN to handle from the various video feeds. But we can guess that in v12, lane keeping and "centering", the latter being much more fluid than it was before, can take cues from any of the cameras.

Basic autopilot, according to Tesla, relied almost exclusively on the windshield foremost everything and may still. They have added some emergency safety features, overlaid on the basic autopilot, and those may take some input from other cameras. But I don't think they've yet adapted it to be a junior version of the all-camera / E2zE v12 sysrem.

 

[FSDtester#1]

Lane keeping:
A few years ago, probably FSD v9 or so, the camera views were merged into a unified bird's eye view (BEV) 360° image. I'm not sure if that processing step is still being done explicitly in v12, or is left to NN to handle from the various video feeds. But we can guess that in v12, lane keeping and "centering", the latter being much more fluid than it was before, can take cues from any of the cameras.

Basic autopilot, according to Tesla, relied almost exclusively on the windshield foremost everything and may still. They have added some emergency safety features, overlaid on the basic autopilot, and those may take some input from other cameras. But I don't think they've yet adapted it to be a junior version of the all-camera / E2zE v12 sysrem.

Engineer speak for listen to the Batman !!

 

[JulienW]

Hard to tell from a Pic, if you could post a few second video, it might be easier to assess if it's the repeaters.

I think the misunderstanding is the changed nomenclature. Tesla always used and call them Repeater cameras up until about a year ago. Now Tesla calls them Fender cameras. Not sure why they were called Repeater to begin with but it was that way for YEARS and now the switch to Fender.

 

[Yelobird]

Engineer speak for listen to the Batman !!

Batman, also known as Richard Cranium to some.

 

[tivoboy]

View attachment 1051138
All newer Tesla's have one of these in each side. They are the primary lane centering cameras used. They do use others to assist, but these are the main ones.
Using the car in front of you, or a follow me car doesn't always work if they are drunk for example and not keeping in their lane. The repeaters work excellent in little or no light situations because your taillights give them enough light to see the lane markings. Shout out to the bad ass Tmc member who found this image a few pages back. If you are having any lane centering issues that a recalibration doesn't fix, service center is the way to go. V12 loves to wobble a little during city driving.
Highway stack you should be seeing almost no wobble.

“There are many repeater cameras like this one, but these ones are mine”. ;-)

I guess a service visit is in order.. I’ve had this same issue for what, 3.5 years now with FSDb? So, clearly it’s an installed hardware issue, which again frankly shocks me that the mother ship could continue to SHIP product in the form of FSDb updates when this same problem for this member of the Borg was clearly mis-built at the factory.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I think the misunderstanding is the changed nomenclature. Tesla always used and call them Repeater cameras up until about a year ago. Now Tesla calls them Fender cameras. Not sure why they were called Repeater to begin with but it was that way for YEARS and now the switch to Fender.

All you smart people get on my nerves sometimes... I am just sitting here in the batcave having a few drinks with Selina, trying to help a brother out.

 

[tivoboy]

All you smart people get on my nerves sometimes... I am just sitting here in the batcave having a few drinks with Selina, trying to help a brother out.

What’s the quote?

“My mother warned me about getting into cars with strange men” nubile female/feline

“This isn’t a car”. Batman

 

[FSDtester#1]

I think the misunderstanding is the changed nomenclature. Tesla always used and call them Repeater cameras up until about a year ago. Now Tesla calls them Fender cameras. Not sure why they were called Repeater to begin with but it was that way for YEARS and now the switch to Fender.

Model X Service Manual | Tesla

Correction code 17221302 0.18 NOTE: Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the procedure, the above correction code and FRT reflect all of the work required to perform this procedure, including the linked procedures. Do not stack correction codes unless explicitly told to do so. NOTE: See Flat...

service.tesla.com

How about Tesla's official website smart guy!!! "Repeater"

This is dated 5/2/2024.... if "used and call" was 3 weeks ago, then ok

You can just tip your king over, no need to resign...

Edit: I thought I was picking on @JHCCAZ ... not my favorite @JulienW

My bad!

 

[JulienW]

Model X Service Manual | Tesla

Correction code 17221302 0.18 NOTE: Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the procedure, the above correction code and FRT reflect all of the work required to perform this procedure, including the linked procedures. Do not stack correction codes unless explicitly told to do so. NOTE: See Flat...

service.tesla.com

How about Tesla's official website smart guy!!!

That is the Service Manual but in the Owners Manual they are called Fender. Even look in the Service Menu Preview and they are called Fender.

EDIT: Just looked in the Owners Manual and they call them "Camera is mounted to each Fender". So Tesla probably still considers them Repeater cameras but just doesn't use that term for the public anymore. Also they seem to call the B-Pillar cameras now just Door Pillar cameras. So I guess that has sorta changed too and I have been calling them wrong.

 

[sleepydoc]

This thread was just a bit tired with everyone waiting for v12.4 videos to drop. Aren't you glad I brought up the B-pillar camera issue so we'd have something different to discuss . In a few days (hopefully) it will be v12.4 all the time!

Maybe I can just cut and past pages 624-673 to recap the previous discussion on the issue?

The only thing better would be talking about why it takes so long to release an update. Maybe it's a never ending need to add simulated training data?

What FSD features will Tesla need to punt on and replace with simulated training data? I'll bet they've been working on Chuck's unprotected left.

I suspect v12.3.6 currently uses more simulated training data than TSLA would ever want to admit like acceleration, deceleration, stop sign intersections, .... Maybe anything that's unrefined and clunky feeling.

No - I think we should try to figure out what 'drive' means again.

 

[FSDtester#1]

That is the Service Manual but in the Owners Manual they are called Fender. Even look in the Service Menu Preview and they are called Fender.

EDIT: Just looked in the Owners Manual and they call them "Camera is mounted to each Fender". So Tesla probably still considers them Repeater cameras but just doesn't use that term for the public anymore. Also they seem to call the B-Pillar cameras now just Door Pillar cameras. So I guess that has sorta changed too and I have been calling them wrong.

View attachment 1051155

View attachment 1051157

Booooo...

"Release the push clip that attaches the LH front side repeater to the LH front fender assembly"

Directly from Tesla... I knew you would try and dig out of the hole.

Tell Alan we said hello, since your down there.

 

[FSDtester#1]

That is the Service Manual but in the Owners Manual

So basically what your suggesting is he should call Tesla Owners?? Or maybe Tesla Service to get assistance ....

 

[JulienW]

....Tell Alan we said hello, since your down there.

You know what Alan and I say about the glass? It is ⅞ empty.

 

[FSDtester#1]

You know what Alan and I say about the glass? It is ⅞ empty.

Nope, it's empty now, another Crown and Ginger please !

 

[drtimhill]

Lane keeping:
A few years ago, probably FSD v9 or so, the camera views were merged into a unified bird's eye view (BEV) 360° image. I'm not sure if that processing step is still being done explicitly in v12, or is left to NN to handle from the various video feeds. But we can guess that in v12, lane keeping and "centering", the latter being much more fluid than it was before, can take cues from any of the cameras.

Basic autopilot, according to Tesla, relied almost exclusively on the windshield foremost everything and may still. They have added some emergency safety features, overlaid on the basic autopilot, and those may take some input from other cameras. But I don't think they've yet adapted it to be a junior version of the all-camera / E2zE v12 sysrem.

All AP functions now use TeslaVision (on newer cars anyway) that does have a unified view across all cameras. That’s what V11 did for AP and NoA. V12 essentially replaced the legacy non-NN code above TeslaVision with new NNs though it’s unclear how tied the two stacks are at present.

 

[FSDtester#1]

I have a theory about 12.4.
They are waiting to get everyone using fsd off V11 before they release it.
I have never seen so much activity on teslafi with all these different builds with the same V12.3.6 software.
It seems like a mad dash... as I stated before, having a big drop of 3.25 after seeing it fading out was a bad thing. They may also be waiting for those fsd peeps to move over to 3.25 before moving people on 3.25 to 2024.9.5
I am basing this on words out of Elon's mouth a couple of days ago and deciphering what he may have meant.

 

[KLam]

See the difference in the image here, left vs. right side and the lane markings?

Clearly the RIGHT camera is seeing about 50% More car side than the left repeater?

As well, the don’t seem to be seeing the same area, at least not from the bottom or top to the hip line. This shouldn’t happen.

View attachment 1051144

Your rear facing camera also looks tilted. May be the road is sloped? Maybe do a multiple lane views check? Did you wrapped your car and some one moved the cameras?

 

[Electroman]

Change of pace from v12.4.
With the foliage now fully out here is an example of an intersection where FSD often doesn't turn right. FSD will only turn when I press the accelerator.
The picture is from the left B-pillar and the blue circle represents where the foliage blocks the camera's view. FSD has already crept as far as it safely can otherwise crossing traffic is impeded which has happened. It's almost like FSD knows it cannot creep any more and also knows it cannot see far enough to safely turn so it simply stops. Of course a human leans way forward and can see far enough to know when it's safe to turn. Thats when I press the accelerator after waiting a long time.

What's also interesting is FSD NEVER turns left here any more. FSD now reroutes to another intersection which is fine by me.
I've reported this intersection before on this forum and to Tesla so I find the change in FSD behavior intriguing. Just unfortunate situation caused by the lack of better forward camera views. My bet is once the foliage is gone FSD will turn right every time safely.

View attachment 1050948

How do you guys get these camera views? Is this available for all cars, or you guys have software that has hacked it ?

 

[tivoboy]

Your rear facing camera also looks tilted. May be the road is sloped? Maybe do a multiple lane views check? Did you wrapped your car and some one moved the cameras?

I think that is just my iPhone trying to capture it and not the is dash orientstion