Gen 3 Wall Connector

[Target]

Any recommendations on an inexpensive torque driver to use for the install? I found 2 on Amazon that look like they might work:

https://www.amazon.com/Wheeler-Accurizing-Measurement-Gunsmithing-Maintenance/dp/B0012AXR4S/
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-10573B-Screwdriver-Inch-Pound-Included/dp/B000RZ1D86

If you are installing a Gen3 station the 1/4" drive torque wrench from Harbor Freight on sale for $10 is the way to go. Gen2 is more of a challenge, but can still be done with a normal torque wrench as long as you have the correct extension and parts for the job. Just test the HF torque on something else to make sure it clicks properly before first use. I had one I had to exchange because the click was too subtle to detect.

 

[JRD1]

If you are installing a Gen3 station the 1/4" drive torque wrench from Harbor Freight on sale for $10 is the way to go. Gen2 is more of a challenge, but can still be done with a normal torque wrench as long as you have the correct extension and parts for the job. Just test the HF torque on something else to make sure it clicks properly before first use. I had one I had to exchange because the click was too subtle to detect.

Thanks for the reply. Was beginning to wonder if anyone actually used a torque driver for their install lol

Is this the one you mean? I don't see one for $10 but this one is only $20.
1/4 in. Drive Click Type Torque Wrench

 

[Target]

Thanks for the reply. Was beginning to wonder if anyone actually used a torque driver for their install lol

Is this the one you mean? I don't see one for $10 but this one is only $20.
1/4 in. Drive Click Type Torque Wrench

Most residential electricians don't own a torque measuring device. Pulling large continuous currents through a connection means it needs to be optimally set up, something not normally an issue in residential work.

I shop at HF enough that I get their coupons and all that, that wrench goes on sale for $9.99 fairly often. It won't show that way on their site, you have to find a coupon.

A quick browse of Amazon for a tool that is precisely what you need at a reasonable cost reveals this
https://www.amazon.com/ARES-4-inch-Visibility-Markings-Readings/dp/B07BFGN53Y
It has a narrow range of inch/pounds that covers all of the electrical stuff you would need for EVSE. It should be more accurate than the HF unit.

 

[Target]

https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-4-Inch-Drive-Socket-Length/dp/B07XM6ZM18
https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-Phillips-Socket-4-Piece-SHB90002/dp/B07XMLT96N

I haven't looked closely at the Gen3 unit, but on Gen2 you would need something like the above connect the torque wrench to the lug.

You can find equivalent things for driver types also. I am a fan of the large hex internal type of lugs found on big breakers. Easy to torque properly, and it never slips off.

 

[GregPC]

Hmm. So I have a new in box autographed version 2 wall connector sitting in my garage. If someone wants to trade me one of those pathetic, underpowered, less capable, wimpy v3 units, and throw in $100, I think we could make a deal.

Rocky_H, just so I am clear. Can I run a 60 amp line from my main panel to a junction box and do a split inside the junction box to two gen 3 wall connectors?

 

[Mokuzai]

Can I run a 60 amp line from my main panel to a junction box and do a split inside the junction box to two gen 3 wall connectors?

The official response from Tesla is no, they want each gen 3 wall connector on their own 60 amp breaker. Whether that is the main panel or a 100 amp sub panel is fine but it is not officially setup to share one breaker like the gen 2 units do.

Since the gen 3's currently do not load balance, nobody can really test what kind of draw they will have in a 2+ unit setup to see if the junction box with adequate wiring would be safe. But regardless it's not a supported configuration.

 

[Target]

Wow, Tesla. Way to throw people under the bus. It really wouldn't have been that hard to add some form of backward compatibility so you could master/slave them in one direction or the other.

Just FYI, if they did set the Gen3 up for circuit sharing, the circuit would be limited to the 60 amp circuit shared across all units ie 48 amps for the cars to consume. Per NEC code you aren't allowed to put any unit on a circuit that is larger than the rating of the unit. On the old unit this wasn't as much of a limitation due to it's high rating, but sharing 48 amps across 2 or more cars isn't a great experience by comparison to sharing 80 across two or more units.

2017 NEC doesn't have provisions written for load sharing charging stations and that might give some inspectors heart burn. Some will not care, but one that are serious about checking your load calculations are going to be a bit concerned.

 

[miimura]

Just FYI, if they did set the Gen3 up for circuit sharing, the circuit would be limited to the 60 amp circuit shared across all units ie 48 amps for the cars to consume. Per NEC code you aren't allowed to put any unit on a circuit that is larger than the rating of the unit. On the old unit this wasn't as much of a limitation due to it's high rating, but sharing 48 amps across 2 or more cars isn't a great experience by comparison to sharing 80 across two or more units.

2017 NEC doesn't have provisions written for load sharing charging stations and that might give some inspectors heart burn. Some will not care, but one that are serious about checking your load calculations are going to be a bit concerned.

Your assertion that Gen3 wall connectors can only share 48 amps across all units is incorrect.

Gen2 Wall connectors can only share the rating of the Master and all must be the same.
Gen3 Wall connectors allow you to specify the amperage of the shared capacity. So, you could have a 125A sub-panel populated with multiple 60A breakers. The power won't be reduced below 48A to any vehicle until the aggregate exceeds 100A. This is an improvement for most situations.

"Non-Concurrent Loads" is a common concept and I don't think any inspectors will get heartburn from this once those magic words are connected to the situation.

 

[wreighven]

Anyone having trouble getting the Gen3 wall charger connecting to their home wi-fi? I had mine installed this morning and it will NOT connect, no matter what I do. In the "web server" interface it usually won't even see my wi-fi, though my phone right next to it sees it just fine. Also, it sees other wi-fi networks. Sometimes it will see my Guest network, but still won't connect.

Pretty bummed.

Thought I’d post a follow-up for those considering the Gen 3. The issue I was having with it connecting to my WiFi was the signal. Today I upgraded my home WiFi to a mesh system and now have a much stronger connection in the garage. The wall charger connected with no issues...

 

[Target]

Your assertion that Gen3 wall connectors can only share 48 amps across all units is incorrect.

Gen2 Wall connectors can only share the rating of the Master and all must be the same.
Gen3 Wall connectors allow you to specify the amperage of the shared capacity. So, you could have a 125A sub-panel populated with multiple 60A breakers. The power won't be reduced below 48A to any vehicle until the aggregate exceeds 100A. This is an improvement for most situations.

"Non-Concurrent Loads" is a common concept and I don't think any inspectors will get heartburn from this once those magic words are connected to the situation.

My statement was in regards to load sharing between and Gen2 and Gen3 units, in a Gen2 shared circuit manner. It would limit the circuit to 48 amps delivered instead of 80A.

The Gen 3 approach is what I have done in my garage, all stations on their own circuits. It is mechanically simpler to wire up and understand. I agree that it is a better solution, to the point that it is what I did years ago.

"Non-Concurrent Loads" I will keep that one in mind

 

[Rocky_H]

Rocky_H, just so I am clear. Can I run a 60 amp line from my main panel to a junction box and do a split inside the junction box to two gen 3 wall connectors?

(Depending on the exact meaning of junction box, see below) Eventually that will be the future plan, and Tesla has even laid that out in the installation manual for the Gen3 wall connector, but they have not sent the software update that will enable this functionality yet.

The official response from Tesla is no, they want each gen 3 wall connector on their own 60 amp breaker. Whether that is the main panel or a 100 amp sub panel is fine but it is not officially setup to share one breaker like the gen 2 units do.

Perhaps this is a terminology difference that I am not quite sure of. I thought junction box was a more general "black box" kind of term that could include subpanels as well. But if the term "junction box" only means direct wire splicing with Polaris type connectors and can't be a subpanel, then sure, that is the distinction with the Gen3.

What I am trying to clear up is that a lot of people have seen this thing of the Gen3 requiring breakers, and they think that means that every single wall connector needs a separate "home run" wire all the way back to the main panel. That is the part that I want to get corrected. You can do one main wiring run of 125 or 150A or whatever from the main panel into the garage, and then then do the final split between the wall connectors right there. And the point is that it's not much cost or complexity difference between it being with breakers or Polaris connectors at that location. The sharing methodology will still be mostly similar.

 

[Target]

What is a Junction Box? — Frye Electric Inc.

Garage subpanels are a good idea. Junction boxes are frequently covered with drywall or hidden. If you can wire directly to a breaker then it is clear what is going to happen when you switch off that breaker. This also allows for the breakers to not run so hot all the time by spreading the load across many instead of just one. This results in less failures and issues. Generally speaking, the less connections the better, every connection in series has resistance and creates additional heat.

I agree that the Gen3 TWC is a step up in this way as far as load sharing is concerned. I DO NOT think that Tesla should have made the gen3 integrate with the gen2. I DO think that Tesla should have offered the Gen 2 longer to ease that transition.

 

[Rocky_H]

I DO NOT think that Tesla should have made the gen3 integrate with the gen2.

I'm not sure why you used the past tense "should have made". I saw in another thread where Tesla answered someone asking that question about a combined system with v2 and v3 units working together, and Tesla specifically said they will not make that possible.

 

[Target]

I'm not sure why you used the past tense "should have made". I saw in another thread where Tesla answered someone asking that question about a combined system with v2 and v3 units working together, and Tesla specifically said they will not make that possible.

I agree, that they said they will not make that possible. My tense may not have been correct, but in concept I agree with Tesla on that decision. It would limit the stations sharing that circuit to a max of 48amps combined to the cars instead of 80A as it is with the Gen2.

Maintaining that higher charging rate via shared circuit was coming at a high cost as Tesla was building the much more expensive Gen2 station even though none of the current production vehicles can use it. Moving to the Gen3 and individual circuits saves them money per station they sell.

 

[GregPC]

(Depending on the exact meaning of junction box, see below) Eventually that will be the future plan, and Tesla has even laid that out in the installation manual for the Gen3 wall connector, but they have not sent the software update that will enable this functionality yet.


Perhaps this is a terminology difference that I am not quite sure of. I thought junction box was a more general "black box" kind of term that could include subpanels as well. But if the term "junction box" only means direct wire splicing with Polaris type connectors and can't be a subpanel, then sure, that is the distinction with the Gen3.

What I am trying to clear up is that a lot of people have seen this thing of the Gen3 requiring breakers, and they think that means that every single wall connector needs a separate "home run" wire all the way back to the main panel. That is the part that I want to get corrected. You can do one main wiring run of 125 or 150A or whatever from the main panel into the garage, and then then do the final split between the wall connectors right there. And the point is that it's not much cost or complexity difference between it being with breakers or Polaris connectors at that location. The sharing methodology will still be mostly similar.

 

[GregPC]

Thanks Rocky_H. I actually meant a panel or box that would house Polaris connectors to split a 60 Amp line from my main electrical panel into two lines. I would then route one line to Gen 3 charger number one and the other line to Gen 3 charger number two. Are you saying that this will work once Tesla develops the load/power sharing software?

 

[GregPC]

The official response from Tesla is no, they want each gen 3 wall connector on their own 60 amp breaker. Whether that is the main panel or a 100 amp sub panel is fine but it is not officially setup to share one breaker like the gen 2 units do.

Since the gen 3's currently do not load balance, nobody can really test what kind of draw they will have in a 2+ unit setup to see if the junction box with adequate wiring would be safe. But regardless it's not a supported configuration.

Thanks Mokuzai. Sorry if this is a stupid question. Would it matter if I run one 60 amp line from my main breaker panel and run the second 60 amp line from a 100 amp sub panel? I already have a 60 amp line coming from my main panel. I would run the second line from my main panel, but it is full - no space.

 

[Mokuzai]

Would it matter if I run one 60 amp line from my main breaker panel and run the second 60 amp line from a 100 amp sub panel?

Ya that would be fine. And depending on your total loads that setup wouldn't need any load balancing.

 

[Rocky_H]

Thanks Rocky_H. I actually meant a panel or box that would house Polaris connectors to split a 60 Amp line from my main electrical panel into two lines. I would then route one line to Gen 3 charger number one and the other line to Gen 3 charger number two. Are you saying that this will work once Tesla develops the load/power sharing software?

No, that is not allowed anymore with the Gen3, which I mentioned in my last comment. That is the thing that @Mokuzai was pointing out. Here is the installation manual for the Gen3 to read about how to hook them up:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf

With the Gen2, they suggested either of two methods: the wire splitting with Polaris connectors, or just using a subpanel with breakers. With the way the Gen3 is going to share, they require only the subpanel method and no Polaris stuff.

Would it matter if I run one 60 amp line from my main breaker panel and run the second 60 amp line from a 100 amp sub panel? I already have a 60 amp line coming from my main panel. I would run the second line from my main panel, but it is full - no space.

Yes, you can certainly do that, but then that is just two independent wall connectors wired separately on two full 60A circuits. There is no use of the sharing system at all.

 

[GregPC]

Ya that would be fine. And depending on your total loads that setup wouldn't need any load balancing.

To be clear, once Tesla enabled load sharing for the gen 3 connectors, would I be able to do load sharing between the two wall connectors that are wired from the two panels (one from my main panel and one from my 100 amp sub panel)?