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General Build Quality of Teslas

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They are doing the right things to address the quality. The Model 3 is being built from the ground up to be as easy to mass produce as possible. Elon has said the Roadster was a mess to build, the Model S was easier, but still difficult to build, and the Model X is 98% about the same level of difficulty as the S with 2% that's much harder. The lessons learned from the X were the design engineers and production people weren't in close enough communication and a lot of things were designed that were just too difficult to manufacture.

The two are in close contact through the whole process with the Model 3.

The lesson of Tesla's history and that of any of the other smaller car companies is that making a car that passes all the highway safety tests is difficult, but doable, but to make a car that has consistently high quality is very tough.

Most Americans forget just how badly built most cars were 30-40 years ago. 50 years ago even the Japanese weren't really known for their high quality. Most of the Japanese auto makers were started in the 30s or just after WW II. It took them 20-30 years to figure out the secret sauce for making consistently high quality cars and part of that grew out of their home culture.

In the western world workers and management were fighting like two tom cats in a bag almost constantly. Management wanted things done a certain way and workers did it even if they could see it was stupid because management didn't want to hear about it. Factories were built on the old feudal model in most cases.

The Japanese listened much more to the people on the line and management took their advice. They also empowered any worker to stop the line at any time if they saw a problem.

The Japanese approach was to fix flaws when they were first spotted rather than keep the line moving and fix anything later. American factories could crank out huge numbers, but there were a lot of inefficient finishing lines that would fix flaws after production was done. In World War II keeping production quotas was so important there were airfields dedicated to rebuilding parts of aircraft after production because it was deemed better to not change the design on the line, but make the changes on planes already built.

The late models of the B-17 had a new tail gun assembly that was called the Cheyenne turret named after the rebuilding facility in Cheyenne, WY where the modifications were made. B-17s were built with the old tail gun assembly and a number of other things, then the planes were flown to Wyoming where brand new parts were torn out and replaced. The USAAF did this to thousands of B-17s.

One of Tesla's problems was Elon Musk came from the software world where there is no production like what you see in a factory. New software goes through testing, but once tested, you make as many identical copies as necessary and send them to the consumer or server where the customer will be served. There are no production quality problems, only design and coding quality problems and once fixed, every unit can be updated instantaneously.

Elon didn't really have an intuitive grasp of what happened when you have hundreds or thousands of people who all have to work together to make as identical a copy of the thing as possible, but each unit is going to be slightly different because you can't make the exact same physical object two times in a row.

The Japanese upped the game in precision manufacturing to levels nobody thought possible. Ford and Boeing both learned this in the 80s. Mitsubishi was making some parts for Boeing aircraft and another American contractor was making the same parts. They found the Mitsubishi parts fit perfectly, but the American made parts needed shims to fit right.

Ford learned a similar lesson when they had Mazda make transmissions for about half of Ranger trucks and a Ford plant made the same transmission for the other half. The Mazda transmissions never failed and the failure rate for the Ford transmissions was alarmingly high. Ford took apart transmissions from both plants and found that while every part in both were within tolerance, the Mazda parts were right down the middle in tolerance with variations that required sophisticated measuring devices to see. The Ford made parts were within tolerance, but they ranged from the extreme low to extreme high end.

Nobody in the US thought what the Japanese were doing was economically possible. It could be done if you wanted to spend a fortune per part, but couldn't be done on an assembly line. What the Japanese were doing was not one thing, but a more careful and thought out approach to the whole process. To a large degree American car companies have finally learned the same lessons, but it's taken decades and two bankruptcies to get there.

Tesla is starting from a more advanced point than say GM was circa 1985. The knowledge about how to mass produce high precision parts and assemblies are out there and a lot of schools teach the basics, but there is such a thing as institutional knowledge that isn't written down, but picked up by people on the job from those around them. That's why Toyota had no qualms about showing GM everything they did when they opened NUMMI. Toyota knew that even if the GM manufacturing people took careful notes, they weren't going to pick up Toyota's institutional knowledge until they had actually worked in it for a while.

GM tried to reproduce NUMMI at other plants cycling managers from NUMMI to other GM factories, but progress was so slow GM went bankrupt before it completely took hold. Gm would have been better suited to taking entire teams of workers from NUMMI and moving them to other plants where those workers could teach other workers on the line. The managers would understand what needed to be done but with the institutional hostility between workers and management, progress was glacial.

Tesla is still building that base of institutional knowledge. Some lessons can be brought in from industry people hired from other companies, but there are some lessons Tesla needs to learn on its own because while a Tesla looks like a regular car and does the same function as a regular car, it is fundamentally something different when you get down into the innards. There is overlap with other cars because cars need certain things to meet regulatory requirements, customer expectations, and basic human ergonomics.

But the drive train is a completely different animal from a regular car and Tesla has also incorporated electronics that is unique in the car industry. Because of these differences, the manufacturing techniques are going to be different. The GigaFactory is something that has never existed. It hasn't had to exist until now.

Tesla has gone from 1980s level quality to around year 2000 quality levels in 5 years. That's covering the ground other company's took 20 years to learn in 5. And by all accounts, the pace of learning has accelerated now that Elon is focusing more and more energy into how to build cars over how to design them.

The Model 3 will have some initial hiccups. ALL new car designs have bugs that get worked out in the first year or two, even Toyota and other top brands. (Toyota minimizes these flaws largely by keeping older designs in production longer than most companies.) I expect the number and severity will be a lot less than the Model S or X, but there will be some.

Elon has said that he plans to revolutionize car manufacturing to make it more automated than ever before. I have mixed feelings about this. Having precision robots make everything will probably improve overall quality and will reduce production costs. It will also probably bring more manufacturing back to the US. But it will mean a lot fewer jobs needed and that makes one of the developed world's problems much, much worse. What do you do when half the population is unemployed and unemployable?

That is quite an essay! You sound well informed on this matter, thank you for sharing this history and your insights. You do make a good point about the time it takes to get there. My own viewpoint was probably biased because I came from a long history of owning Mercedes Benzes, which had a very long history of high build quality (as well as well-built parts). Plus I had been buying used cars, on which any initial problems had long since been addressed. Helpful, thank you!
 
Making a dollars for dollars quality/fit/finish comparison of a boutique manufacturer building a car around a technologically advanced (ie expensive) drivetrain to an established hundred year old ICE manufacturer that cranks out orders of magnitude more cars per year is only going to result in disappointment.

If that's what you're looking for, you're looking in the wrong place.

It's unfortunate that some continue to make excuses for a car company that ships in excess of 75,000 vehicles each quarter. Tesla is no longer a "boutique" manufacturer. In 2012 yes, but in 2017 not anymore. Especially with Model 3 volume shipments 6-12 months away this excuse will no longer fly.

Tesla focuses its resources to design and produce automobiles which cram unimaginable amounts of electrons into dense battery packs which allow those cars to have mind altering accelerations and travel practical distances between charges. They also drive themselves, somewhat.

Little of this has to do with the manufacturing issues we are discussing.

Some people will suggest Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Porsche/Lexus/etc have been focusing on the wrong things for too long. I’ll take misaligned trim over a gas station anyday.

It's too bad that some believe that you must accept poor build quality in order to avoid a gas station. Leaf, BMW i3 and Chevy Bolt owners may disagree.

Folks - this is a company that has been manufacturing cars for less than 5 years. I'd be willing to best the Model T was a POS for several years.

Tesla is in its infancy. Even now, every owner is an early adopter. For now, Tesla gets a pass. It won't last much longer, but for now, they do.

No, they don't. Many of us are no longer giving Tesla a "pass". I love my Model S, but I'm not going to give Tesla a pass after failing to improve basic quality issues five years into production.

And no, Tesla has not been making cars for five years. More like 10.
 
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And no, Tesla has not been making cars for five years. More like 10.

So tell me this. When did Tesla manufacture it's first car? And what car did they manufacture 10 years ago? You tell me that, and if I can confirm it, I will be in total agreement with you. However, if you cannot name a car that Tesla manufactured even 6 years ago, then you admit you are wrong.
 
It's unfortunate that some continue to make excuses for a car company that ships in excess of 75,000 vehicles each quarter.
lol, which quarter would that be?

Tesla is no longer a "boutique" manufacturer. In 2012 yes, but in 2017 not anymore.

A less than decade old manufacturer making less than 100k cars per year is "boutique" compared to basically any other manufacturer.


I'm not making excuses, I'm just not angry because I had realistic expectations of what I was buying. If panel gaps and micrometer precision in the spacing of my leather stitching were at the top of my priority list, I'd shop elsewhere.
 
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Elon has said that he plans to revolutionize car manufacturing to make it more automated than ever before. I have mixed feelings about this. Having precision robots make everything will probably improve overall quality and will reduce production costs. It will also probably bring more manufacturing back to the US. But it will mean a lot fewer jobs needed and that makes one of the developed world's problems much, much worse. What do you do when half the population is unemployed and unemployable?

Automation does not necessarily eliminate jobs and historically has not significantly impacted industries since the 1950's. For example, when ATM machines were installed, there was an expectation that less employees were needed, however more banks were built creating more employment in the banking industry although less bank tellers were needed.

Autonomous vehicles and automation will certainly have an impact on job loss, but it will also create new types of jobs. There are 6 + million jobs that go unfilled in our country due to a lack of training. It's not that the training is unavailable, but studies have found that people are not taking advantage of the training being offered to fill them. Unfortunately, there isn't enough data available to estimate the impact on job growth or loss over the next 20 + years. One thing is for sure, it will be exciting to see. I'm just glad I'll be retired and watching from the bench.
 
No, they don't. Many of us are no longer giving Tesla a "pass". I love my Model S, but I'm not going to give Tesla a pass after failing to improve basic quality issues five years into production.

And no, Tesla has not been making cars for five years. More like 10.

Tesla has been making electric drivetrains for around 10 years, but the roadster was a modification of Lotus' Elise. The Model S was the first car they did from the ground up and it was a major shift for them.

I also think you are being a bit unfair claiming quality hasn't improved in 5 years. A large number of the early cars had drive unit replacements, but that's almost unheard of on cars built in the last couple of years. Battery pack and 12V battery failures were also common in the early cars and don't tend to happen now. They fixed the weakness in the battery pack protection that allowed hitting road hazards to set the pack on fire. There have been some fires in the last year or two, but in each of those cases they were from horrific accidents where no car would have fared very well.

Other problems with the early cars involved more leaks than seen on recent built cars, lots of problems with the door handles, more frequent misaligned things, main screen failures, etc. During the last five years they have also improved the energy economy, performance, seats, redesigned the sunroof option, improved the batteries, gone through two generations of AP hardware, made a center console standard, plus added other features not available on the early cars. AP2's software needs work, but AP1 works better than they initially promised.

The 2017 Model S may not be to the quality level you want to see, but it is clearly much more reliable and much better built than those early cars as evidenced by the lack of issues buyers of the newer cars are seeing compared to those early cars. The car isn't perfect, and there are some design flaws that could be addressed (most in the interior), but the cars they are currently building have improved over 2012/2013.

lol, which quarter would that be?



A less than decade old manufacturer making less than 100k cars per year is "boutique" compared to basically any other manufacturer.


I'm not making excuses, I'm just not angry because I had realistic expectations of what I was buying. If panel gaps and micrometer precision in the spacing of my leather stitching were at the top of my priority list, I'd shop elsewhere.

Tesla is in a kind of no-mans land in the car industry right now. There are real boutique car makers that produce a relative handful of cars a year, mostly supercar makers. And there are some car makers in developing countries that make in the 50,000-200,000 cars a year range, but in the developed world you have supercar makers producing less than 1000 cars a year, and you have big car companies and Tesla is the only one in the middle between the two. Of cars sold in the US, the next largest car maker to Tesla is Subaru who makes right around 1 million cars a year.

That's a pretty big gap if you think about it. And that gap is probably going to disappear in the next few years as Tesla moves into the low end of the "real" car companies in production volume. (I put "real" in parenthesis because many mainstream automakers have written Tesla off as a non-competitor because their production volume is so low.)
 
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Quality starts in the culture of the firm. I don't see how the relentless pressure of over optimistic timescales and living quarter by quarter with ever greater promises coupled with a factory full of workers frequently complaining about working conditions is going to deliver that.

A badly aligned door is a factory worker who didn't care when they attached it, a factory inspection that didn't spot it and a service centre who either didn't have the time to fix or hoped the customer wouldn't notice.
 
So tell me this. When did Tesla manufacture it's first car? And what car did they manufacture 10 years ago? You tell me that, and if I can confirm it, I will be in total agreement with you. However, if you cannot name a car that Tesla manufactured even 6 years ago, then you admit you are wrong.
It's called the Roadster, ever heard of it? It went into production in 2008. Might want to educate yourself... Tesla Roadster - Wikipedia

lol, which quarter would that be?
Meant to type 25,000 not 75,000. But that's still not "boutique" in my opinion. Hasn't Tesla shipped over 200,000 Model S/X since 2012? That's a lot of cars to still have such basic initial quality and build issues.

I'm not making excuses, I'm just not angry because I had realistic expectations of what I was buying. If panel gaps and micrometer precision in the spacing of my leather stitching were at the top of my priority list, I'd shop elsewhere.
I'm not angry either, not sure what may have given you that impression. Calling out Tesla's quality problems doesn't mean that I'm angry, it means that I'm being objective. I love my Model S, I just hate that Tesla has done precious little to improve the quality of the car over the last 4-5 years. Facts are facts.

Tesla has been making electric drivetrains for around 10 years, but the roadster was a modification of Lotus' Elise. The Model S was the first car they did from the ground up and it was a major shift for them.
Got it, and they've shipped over 200,000 of them now... they should know what they are doing before launching another vehicle.

I also think you are being a bit unfair claiming quality hasn't improved in 5 years. A large number of the early cars had drive unit replacements, but that's almost unheard of on cars built in the last couple of years. Battery pack and 12V battery failures were also common in the early cars and don't tend to happen now. They fixed the weakness in the battery pack protection that allowed hitting road hazards to set the pack on fire. There have been some fires in the last year or two, but in each of those cases they were from horrific accidents where no car would have fared very well.

Other problems with the early cars involved more leaks than seen on recent built cars, lots of problems with the door handles, more frequent misaligned things, main screen failures, etc. During the last five years they have also improved the energy economy, performance, seats, redesigned the sunroof option, improved the batteries, gone through two generations of AP hardware, made a center console standard, plus added other features not available on the early cars. AP2's software needs work, but AP1 works better than they initially promised.

When I talk about build quality I'm talking about initial quality issues like panel gaps, chrome misalignments, glass and seal problems, water leaks/intrusion, creaks and rattles, etc.

The 2017 Model S may not be to the quality level you want to see, but it is clearly much more reliable and much better built than those early cars as evidenced by the lack of issues buyers of the newer cars are seeing compared to those early cars. The car isn't perfect, and there are some design flaws that could be addressed (most in the interior), but the cars they are currently building have improved over 2012/2013.
I beg to differ. I've driven recently built loaners and they feel and sound like junk compared to my 2013 build. So many rattles inside and poor panel alignments unlike anything that I've seen in my now 4-year old Model S. At the end of the day, based on the quality reports I read here and elsewhere, if I were to order a new Model S I would still be wondering whether or not I will get a "good one".
 
After reading this thread I was anxious picking up my 75D today (trading in a 2013 85).

All I can say is I was pleasantly overwhelmed by what I saw. Panel fit was great. Paint finish looked very good. Spent a good deal of time looking things over since I really did not need the orientation a new driver might want.

The drive home was also a pleasant surprise as the car was much quieter than my previous MS.

So far, it appears I got a "good one"!

We shouldn't be having such varied experiences.
 
We shouldn't be having such varied experiences.

I was encouraged to read your positive report on your new vehicle. Congratulations and thanks.

Re your quote above ... I wonder about "varied experiences?"
My inclination is that some people are hard to please and look for faults. I watch the TV show "How Things are Made" and while I have not seen a program featuring the Tesla ... I have watched the assembly of several other vehicles, and I am not sure how, or why there should be a lot of variances from one car to another. Robots (I believe) are 100% consistent ... the stampings should be the same, assembly and welding is precise and once aligned ... should be consistent. Human assembly appears to be reserved for the final phases of connecting wiring, quality observance and correction. Any thoughts?
 
I was encouraged to read your positive report on your new vehicle. Congratulations and thanks.

Re your quote above ... I wonder about "varied experiences?"
My inclination is that some people are hard to please and look for faults. I watch the TV show "How Things are Made" and while I have not seen a program featuring the Tesla ... I have watched the assembly of several other vehicles, and I am not sure how, or why there should be a lot of variances from one car to another. Robots (I believe) are 100% consistent ... the stampings should be the same, assembly and welding is precise and once aligned ... should be consistent. Human assembly appears to be reserved for the final phases of connecting wiring, quality observance and correction. Any thoughts?
The devil is in the details. An example of this, in my glovebox were Chinese Owners Manual for the X. I have an S. :)
 
They are doing the right things to address the quality. The Model 3 is being built from the ground up to be as easy to mass produce as possible. Elon has said the Roadster was a mess to build, the Model S was easier, but still difficult to build, and the Model X is 98% about the same level of difficulty as the S with 2% that's much harder. The lessons learned from the X were the design engineers and production people weren't in close enough communication and a lot of things were designed that were just too difficult to manufacture.

The two are in close contact through the whole process with the Model 3.

The lesson of Tesla's history and that of any of the other smaller car companies is that making a car that passes all the highway safety tests is difficult, but doable, but to make a car that has consistently high quality is very tough.

Most Americans forget just how badly built most cars were 30-40 years ago. 50 years ago even the Japanese weren't really known for their high quality. Most of the Japanese auto makers were started in the 30s or just after WW II. It took them 20-30 years to figure out the secret sauce for making consistently high quality cars and part of that grew out of their home culture.

In the western world workers and management were fighting like two tom cats in a bag almost constantly. Management wanted things done a certain way and workers did it even if they could see it was stupid because management didn't want to hear about it. Factories were built on the old feudal model in most cases.

The Japanese listened much more to the people on the line and management took their advice. They also empowered any worker to stop the line at any time if they saw a problem.

The Japanese approach was to fix flaws when they were first spotted rather than keep the line moving and fix anything later. American factories could crank out huge numbers, but there were a lot of inefficient finishing lines that would fix flaws after production was done. In World War II keeping production quotas was so important there were airfields dedicated to rebuilding parts of aircraft after production because it was deemed better to not change the design on the line, but make the changes on planes already built.

The late models of the B-17 had a new tail gun assembly that was called the Cheyenne turret named after the rebuilding facility in Cheyenne, WY where the modifications were made. B-17s were built with the old tail gun assembly and a number of other things, then the planes were flown to Wyoming where brand new parts were torn out and replaced. The USAAF did this to thousands of B-17s.

One of Tesla's problems was Elon Musk came from the software world where there is no production like what you see in a factory. New software goes through testing, but once tested, you make as many identical copies as necessary and send them to the consumer or server where the customer will be served. There are no production quality problems, only design and coding quality problems and once fixed, every unit can be updated instantaneously.

Elon didn't really have an intuitive grasp of what happened when you have hundreds or thousands of people who all have to work together to make as identical a copy of the thing as possible, but each unit is going to be slightly different because you can't make the exact same physical object two times in a row.

The Japanese upped the game in precision manufacturing to levels nobody thought possible. Ford and Boeing both learned this in the 80s. Mitsubishi was making some parts for Boeing aircraft and another American contractor was making the same parts. They found the Mitsubishi parts fit perfectly, but the American made parts needed shims to fit right.

Ford learned a similar lesson when they had Mazda make transmissions for about half of Ranger trucks and a Ford plant made the same transmission for the other half. The Mazda transmissions never failed and the failure rate for the Ford transmissions was alarmingly high. Ford took apart transmissions from both plants and found that while every part in both were within tolerance, the Mazda parts were right down the middle in tolerance with variations that required sophisticated measuring devices to see. The Ford made parts were within tolerance, but they ranged from the extreme low to extreme high end.

Nobody in the US thought what the Japanese were doing was economically possible. It could be done if you wanted to spend a fortune per part, but couldn't be done on an assembly line. What the Japanese were doing was not one thing, but a more careful and thought out approach to the whole process. To a large degree American car companies have finally learned the same lessons, but it's taken decades and two bankruptcies to get there.

Tesla is starting from a more advanced point than say GM was circa 1985. The knowledge about how to mass produce high precision parts and assemblies are out there and a lot of schools teach the basics, but there is such a thing as institutional knowledge that isn't written down, but picked up by people on the job from those around them. That's why Toyota had no qualms about showing GM everything they did when they opened NUMMI. Toyota knew that even if the GM manufacturing people took careful notes, they weren't going to pick up Toyota's institutional knowledge until they had actually worked in it for a while.

GM tried to reproduce NUMMI at other plants cycling managers from NUMMI to other GM factories, but progress was so slow GM went bankrupt before it completely took hold. Gm would have been better suited to taking entire teams of workers from NUMMI and moving them to other plants where those workers could teach other workers on the line. The managers would understand what needed to be done but with the institutional hostility between workers and management, progress was glacial.

Tesla is still building that base of institutional knowledge. Some lessons can be brought in from industry people hired from other companies, but there are some lessons Tesla needs to learn on its own because while a Tesla looks like a regular car and does the same function as a regular car, it is fundamentally something different when you get down into the innards. There is overlap with other cars because cars need certain things to meet regulatory requirements, customer expectations, and basic human ergonomics.

But the drive train is a completely different animal from a regular car and Tesla has also incorporated electronics that is unique in the car industry. Because of these differences, the manufacturing techniques are going to be different. The GigaFactory is something that has never existed. It hasn't had to exist until now.

Tesla has gone from 1980s level quality to around year 2000 quality levels in 5 years. That's covering the ground other company's took 20 years to learn in 5. And by all accounts, the pace of learning has accelerated now that Elon is focusing more and more energy into how to build cars over how to design them.

The Model 3 will have some initial hiccups. ALL new car designs have bugs that get worked out in the first year or two, even Toyota and other top brands. (Toyota minimizes these flaws largely by keeping older designs in production longer than most companies.) I expect the number and severity will be a lot less than the Model S or X, but there will be some.

Elon has said that he plans to revolutionize car manufacturing to make it more automated than ever before. I have mixed feelings about this. Having precision robots make everything will probably improve overall quality and will reduce production costs. It will also probably bring more manufacturing back to the US. But it will mean a lot fewer jobs needed and that makes one of the developed world's problems much, much worse. What do you do when half the population is unemployed and unemployable?

Great summary of Post WW2 industrial engineering and concept of continuous improvement in manufacturing :cool:
Another remarkable recovery story ... Porsche hired the Toyota to help save the company from bankruptcy in the 90's:

Putting Porsche in the Pink

From the dizzying heights of the mid-1980's when American yuppies, not to mention staid German executives, had to have one, Porsche went to the brink of bankruptcy in 1992. Recession had crippled sales, and costs were out of control. Turning to the Japanese, with their "lean" manufacturing techniques, was considered its only hope of making a profitable car and avoiding the ever-rumored takeover by BMW, Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen.

"It was the biggest shock for the company to accept that Japanese were walking around, not able to speak either the Schwabian dialect or German, and telling people what to do," said Wendelin Wiedeking, Porsche's 43-year-old chief executive. "They were tough guys. They were absolutely aggressive to the people. And we wanted it that way."

Porsche's assembly line, he says, looked like a dark warehouse when the Japanese arrived.
On either side were shelves eight feet high with huge parts bins filled with 28 days of inventory. To get a part, workers often had to climb ladders, wasting enormous amounts of time.


First off, the shelves were cut in half and inventory reduced to seven days. Eventually the parts bins were eliminated entirely; Porsche engineers created a remarkably low-tech, but highly efficient parts supermarket in the basement of the factory. There, workers hook only the parts needed for each stage of assembly onto carts. The carts are then sent up to the line and accompany the car until they are used up, when they return to the basement to be refilled.
 
Uh, that car is a Lotus.
Aww, bless your heart. You're totally wrong, but it's a common misconception. Don't feel bad.

Only 6% of the parts are interchangeable with a Lotus. Tesla designed the car. It's slightly wider & longer. Lotus built the glider to Tesla's specs on their production line. Tesla made the body panels out of CF so it would be light enough.
 
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Aww, bless your heart. You're totally wrong, but it's a common misconception. Don't feel bad.

Only 6% of the parts are interchangeable with a Lotus. Tesla designed the car. It's slightly wider & longer. Lotus built the glider to Tesla's specs on their production line. Tesla made the body panels out of CF so it would be light enough.

So, the entire discussion here was - how long has Tesla been BUILDING cars. How much of the car did Lotus build and how much did Tesla build? And who actually assembled it? And was the assembly on an assembly line in Tesla's factory?

Basically, just how much car manufacturing experience did Tesla garner from building 2450 Roadsters (if they even built them)?
 
So, the entire discussion here was - how long has Tesla been BUILDING cars. How much of the car did Lotus build and how much did Tesla build? And who actually assembled it? And was the assembly on an assembly line in Tesla's factory?

Basically, just how much car manufacturing experience did Tesla garner from building 2450 Roadsters (if they even built them)?
Aww, is this your way of saying you were wrong with your statement that a Roadster is just a Lotus? :) I'm pretty sure that was the statement I was responding to. But I'll play.

Lotus shipped the gliders to Tesla in Menlo Park. The cars were hand assembled there (and another location previous to that). Yes, they *even* built them. No, they didn't have the factory in Fremont at that point in time - and they didn't have robots either. But it would be a mistake to think they didn't gain any experience.