Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

General Discussion: 2018 Investor Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Status
Not open for further replies.
An anecdote for everyone that isn't entirely surprising. I was going to test drive a Model 3 Performance today in Raleigh, but someone was in the process of purchasing the test drive car, so I had to settle for the RWD and come back for the performance in a couple weeks. I'm guessing the EOQ push has begun and this is happening in other cities, too.

The LR RWD was a ton of fun. Performance must be on another level!
 
bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-08-31/electric-vehicles-in-california-their-day-will-come-suddenly

"It took Norway about a decade to reach six percent electric vehicle sales but then only five years to go from 6 percent to 47 percent. Norway is a special case, given that the country has generous incentives that aren’t replicated elsewhere. It does show, though, that inflection points occur, and when they do, markets can change quickly."

"Inflection points are notoriously difficult to call. Generally with consumer products, these things take longer than expected to get going, but then go faster than expected once they do. I think we’re still several years away from a true inflection point on EV adoption, but it’s definitely getting closer."

Norway can get to a high adoption rate because it's a small country and a small car market. Demand for EVs is not huge yet, but ultimately the market is limited by battery production. The US had about 200,000 EV and PHEV sales last year. This year will be higher thanks to the Model 3, but not by much. Overall the US had 17.25 million car sales. The entire EV and PHEV market was about 1%. California had 2 million car sales. 10X the entire EV and PHEV market.

China is pushing hard to get EV sales up and there are many start ups making China only EVs. Most of the li-ion batteries made for the domestic market are assembled by hand in environments that are nowhere near the quality needed to consistently make good batteries. So those Chinese EVs are not all that reliable.

To make li-ion batteries correctly requires very expensive equipment and facilities. Most of the work is done by machine because of the precision needed. People worry about the Chinese flooding the market with cheap li-ion cells, but they can't make good li-ion cells much cheaper than anyone else because the equipment needed costs the same in the US as it does in China.

It's going to take time to make enough battery factories to penetrate the larger car markets very deeply. Small countries like Norway and the Netherlands can push the curve because their yearly car sales are a rounding error compared to the rest of the world.

NJ gas tax rising again.

N.J. fuel-tax hike leaves cheap gas in the rearview mirror

This is implemented in a way to create a downward spiral for ICE cars. More tax --> Less Consumption --> More tax

Got to order my second Model 3. NJ has no sales tax on EV's so you avoid all taxes. (Gas and Sales.)

Back in the 50s a lot of countries realized that raising gas taxes didn't really affect the consumption of gasoline much and most countries leveled huge gas taxes. It's why the US still has some of the cheapest gas in the world, the taxes are lower than most countries.

Pennsylvania has had the highest gas tax in the US for some time, but EV adoption there is not significant. California recently raised theirs to be #2, but Washington State was #2 for some time. Here on the border with Oregon, people will make sure to fill up in Oregon if they can (plus in Oregon they pump the gas for you), but the local gas stations aren't out of business either.

California and Washington have seen some of the highest EV adoption rates in the country, but California has a statewide awareness about air quality that other states don't have and the state had offered generous EV incentives for a while.

Washington doesn't have any EV incentives anymore, but they did for a while. What Washington has is the cheapest electricity rates in the US as well as a strong eco awareness in the western part of the state (where the bulk of the population lives). My electricity rate is $0.08/KHW. Seattle is a bit higher, but not by much. I estimate my car costs about $0.025 a mile to drive, 1/4 the cost of my SO's Subaru Impreza.

Astronomically high gas taxes high affect consumption, but adding $0.04 a gallon is probably not going to be noticed by consumers. Gasoline can shift more than that day to day due to market forces.
 
With 9 weeks completed out of 13, here is what it should be like number wise
9/13 * 51 K = 35307
9/13 * 55 K = 38076

First few days of Q3 was slow, also number 34700 doesn't include Sat, Sunday of week 9.

Assuming like with every quarter there will be a spike in last 2-3 weeks, I think we are on pace for the lower end, and should exceed it. We likely will not hit 55K though.

(this is all about production, deliveries should be higher due to inventory from Q2) ~ cheers!!

(Note: for those looking at exact data, this quarter in fact has 13weeks and 1 day :) )

Lets look what we have:

Fred claims he has a very credible source and make predictions based on that. I like Fred but if we look back we never ever had one single source that got production numbers right or whispered something to us that was accurate. I am not certain that there is even an ability of an internal to be able to get hold of the information of production numbers. That likely just visible for senior management.

Just to claim to have a source that is credible is not enough for me to be convinced. Sorry for being straight on that one.

Secondly we are about 2/3 in the quarter with a production that has a jokey stick curve in the past. So we all do not know what the last month will bring. Maybe low 4k/w maybe 6-7 k/w? We just do not know and that can have a severe impact on production and delivery.

My rule is that I tend to believe numbers more if I get two or three data points from hopefully independent sources, pointing all in the same direction. I do not have that here. Again all what I hear is that Fred claim to have one credible source he does not disclose. " Sorry Fred, I like you but that just not enough"

Finally how I judge Elon as well as other people is consistent behavior. Elon is very consistent over the years. Thats particularly true for him calling the privatization off because the reasons are the ones that drive him since decades.

Freds behavior since a few week is odd and I am not sure I understand all of it. Elon unfollowed Electrek is maybe just a coincidence but then again today headlines from Fred who indicate negative instead of the obvious positive that Tesla is well on track to make quarterly numbers make me wonder. Since a week I wonder why there reporting changed in sentiment. It looks like I am not the only one who noticed.

I may be completely wrong here and Fred has a solid source and will be proven to be right for the last two months. However all that discussion is based on one unnamed source that Fred claims to know.

Not good enough for me.....

BTW, numbers are good if true anyway!
 
Tesla Semi.jpg Thanks, another picture for my fanboy collection. I thought it looked interesting from the back also.
 
Lets look what we have:

Fred claims he has a very credible source and make predictions based on that. I like Fred but if we look back we never ever had one single source that got production numbers right or whispered something to us that was accurate. I am not certain that there is even an ability of an internal to be able to get hold of the information of production numbers. That likely just visible for senior management.

Just to claim to have a source that is credible is not enough for me to be convinced. Sorry for being straight on that one.

Secondly we are about 2/3 in the quarter with a production that has a jokey stick curve in the past. So we all do not know what the last month will bring. Maybe low 4k/w maybe 6-7 k/w? We just do not know and that can have a severe impact on production and delivery.

My rule is that I tend to believe numbers more if I get two or three data points from hopefully independent sources, pointing all in the same direction. I do not have that here. Again all what I hear is that Fred claim to have one credible source he does not disclose. " Sorry Fred, I like you but that just not enough"

Finally how I judge Elon as well as other people is consistent behavior. Elon is very consistent over the years. Thats particularly true for him calling the privatization off because the reasons are the ones that drive him since decades.

Freds behavior since a few week is odd and I am not sure I understand all of it. Elon unfollowed Electrek is maybe just a coincidence but then again today headlines from Fred who indicate negative instead of the obvious positive that Tesla is well on track to make quarterly numbers make me wonder. Since a week I wonder why there reporting changed in sentiment. It looks like I am not the only one who noticed.

I may be completely wrong here and Fred has a solid source and will be proven to be right for the last two months. However all that discussion is based on one unnamed source that Fred claims to know.

Not good enough for me.....

BTW, numbers are good if true anyway!

Someone needs to give Fred his M3 .. it's running late ;)
 
The Semi exists... I have seen it with my own two eyes! (Front ends look wonky due to quick and dirty license plate removal via phone...)

View attachment 331302

Man that keep that thing squeaky clean... interestingly I just saw this IG post by Tesla fly...

(FWIW: the Semi license plate is already all over the interwebz…)
 
(FWIW: the Semi license plate is already all over the interwebz…)

I was more worried about my own, and did both while I was at it. :)

It was sweet to see the thing, and doubly so when realizing how the Model 3 existing contributes to the feasibility of the Semi--Model 3 motors, Model 3 door handles, Model 3 screens, etc.
 
I am not certain that there is even an ability of an internal to be able to get hold of the information of production numbers. That likely just visible for senior management.
This is not true. In the rebuttal to Martin Tripp's fake whistle blower allegation that Elon juiced up the production numbers, Tesla said the daily numbers are displayed all over the factory and it is impossible for the management to fake this. However, I believe the numbers displayed are per shift. So you will have to add up the numbers across the three different shifts.

But to your point, unless you have access to shift workers across all three shifts on a daily basis, it will be difficult for the total numbers to leak out.

Edit: Tesla statement on Trippy

Capture.JPG
 
Last edited:
Here on the border with Oregon, people will make sure to fill up in Oregon if they can (plus in Oregon they pump the gas for you), but the local gas stations aren't out of business either.

OT but while I live in Portland I go out of my way to fill my ICE vehicles in Washington even though it costs more because I don't want to pay any money towards Portland gas taxes for them to waste.
 
An anecdote for everyone that isn't entirely surprising. I was going to test drive a Model 3 Performance today in Raleigh, but someone was in the process of purchasing the test drive car, so I had to settle for the RWD and come back for the performance in a couple weeks. I'm guessing the EOQ push has begun and this is happening in other cities, too.

The LR RWD was a ton of fun. Performance must be on another level!

"The LR RWD was a ton of fun. Performance must be on another level!"

- Yes, I can confirm both. Power is part of it. AWD can make a big difference too. It's effortless.
 
My rule is that I tend to believe numbers more if I get two or three data points from hopefully independent sources, pointing all in the same direction. I do not have that here. Again all what I hear is that Fred claim to have one credible source he does not disclose. " Sorry Fred, I like you but that just not enough"

What about this: Model 3 Order Tracker #3 (Troy: There are a few identical files to avoid overcrowding) by Teslike (@TroyTeslike) | Twitter?

So if we compare these two, we see that the numbers are very similar to each other:

53,000 vehicles total, incl. 34,700 Model 3 (inside source)
52,631 vehicles total, incl. 35,471 Model 3 (crowd-sourced spreadsheet)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.